Theologians & Scholars Formally Request Correction of Amoris Laetitia

There is nothing I can ever do that will make me worthy of receiving the Blessed Sacrament. We can not earn our salvation, this was resolved at the council of Trent. However God died for us, and when I confess my sins I become worthy because GOD believes I am worthy. Do you see the difference? It has nothing to do with my believing I am worthy, but everything to do with God believing I am worthy. But if I am living in mortal sin, I scandalize the host by taking communion.

"A mortal sin is any sin whose matter is grave and which has been committed willfully and with knowledge of its seriousness. Grave matter includes, but is not limited to, murder, receiving or participating in an abortion, homosexual acts, having sexual intercourse outside of marriage or in an invalid marriage, and deliberately engaging in impure thoughts (Matt. 5:28–29). Scripture contains lists of mortal sins (for example, 1 Cor. 6:9–10 and Gal. 5:19–21). For further information on what constitutes a mortal sin, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church. "

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/who-can-receive-communion

"Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup" (1 Cor. 11:27–28)

I think you have much to learn about OUR faith, davidtlg. I hope that when you say these words at mass, you mean them - or do you?

"I confess to almighty God and to you, my brothers and sisters..."

We do have much to learn, but we also have much to be weary of. There is a reason why protestants have 40,000 denominations today. We need to check the guidance of the Holy Spirit against the Magisterium and CDF to be sure we are not being led astray. There are many abominations happening in the Protestant Churches under the guise of being led by the Holy Spirit.

There is a huge difference between the Catholic Deposit of Faith and the Popes expressed opinions on this matter. I see in no way shape or form how giving Communion to people living in mortal sin aligns with the Catechism or CDF. This is why people are asking for clarification on the matter, because it is the duty of the Magisterium to be clear on the interpreting the CDF.

86 "Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith."48

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a2.htm

 

Worthy cannot be argued...you are mistaken. Not even God would say we are worthy.

Sorry,
Brother al

 

This is the nonsense and garbage that destroys the church. This gives the impression that Our Holy Father believes that adulterers and fornicators should receive Holy Eucharist.

Sad sad sad

 

Our Father sent his Son to die for us out of Love, and it is his Love for us that makes us worthy.

 

No...nothing can make us worthy. There is pride that is attached to word. Yes God sent His beloved Son but that has nothing to do with being worthy.

Sorry,
Brother al

 

And on a different note...that love word is used interchangeable in so many places. I might argue it wasn't about love. Maybe it was about completing GODS perfection.

But that is a totally different debate.

Brother al

 

Did God not make us in his image? We are his creation, our Souls perfect creations. We are worthy of Gods love as long as we do not cling to sin.

 

Is a child worthy of their parents love?

 

God didn't make us in His image. He made everything in His image. Creation had to come from the creator. Everything is Gods creation and everything is perfect in Gods eyes. We are not worthy of anything. Even the very point of you stating "as long as WE do not cling to sin". We have nothing to do with it...it is through the GRACE of God. Yes, the creation of the soul is perfect, but the soul is a living creation that can change. But we have nothing to do with it being worthy. The moment you consider yourseelf worthy, you begin to distance yourself from God.

May Gods Will be Done

 

That it exactly what this debate is about, whether those in irregular unions (by definition living in adultery, fornication, or sodomy, in other words living lives in objectively mortal sin) may be admitted to Holy Eucharist.

Kasper (a known liberal dissenter who was disciplined and silence by SAINT Pope JPII and Cardinal Ratzinger for promoting this position) was rehabilitated by this pope from his first Wednesday audience of his pontificate, and was made keynote speaker at the meeting of Cardinals where Holy Eucharist for those in irregular unions was first placed on the agenda. The pope then praised him for his serene theology, doing "theology on one's knees."

Scalfari said the pope told him eventually everyone who asks will be admitted to the Eucharist.

His childhood friend visited with him and reported the pope's two goals for his pontificate were admitting those in irregular unions to the Eucharist, and ending priestly celibacy.

This pope phoned a woman living in an irregular union who had been instructed not to present herself for Holy Eucharist that "a little bread and wine" never hurt anybody, and to just go to another priest. The same story was repeated with his childhood friend's coworker in Argentina.

The conference of bishops of the Philipines said this groundbreaking document must immediately be placed into pastoral practice; theologians in Europe claim catechisms and other Church teaching documents must be edited to reflect this new thinking in AL.

Archbishop Forte claimed that the pope told him: “If we speak explicitly about communion for the divorced and remarried, you do not know what a terrible mess we will make. So we won’t speak plainly, do it in a way that the premises are there, then I will draw out the conclusions.”

Cardinal Schonborn has been admitting those in irregular marriage to the Eucharist for 15 years in his diocese. When asked how to interpret AL, the pope said to consult Schonborn's position, who agrees with and promotes this interpretation, and claims AL is magisterial and all preceding Church documents must be read in accord with it.

Now the Vatican newspaper itself (!!!) runs an editorial promoting and defending the interpretation of AL that would permit those in irregular unions to receive the Holy Eucharist.

This is plainly the pope's agenda, anyone arguing otherwise has zero credibility.

It's the worst kind of modern Pharisaicalism.

This is obviously a gross violation of Jesus's plain words of Scripture, and 2000 years of magisterial teaching.

It is heretical, scandalous and blasphemous.

No emotion laden appeals to situational ethics ("mercy") can make it otherwise.

 

Sorrowful Heart,

This stuff is pretty deep theology. We can argue for days. In reality, there is no real answer. There are different levels, for different people.

I just like to debate spirituality.

May God Bless You and Your Family

Your friend,
Brother al

 

I am sure you are genuine in your faith Dolours. I just don't recognize it as my faith and I do not have time to wade through your tome and unpick all your threads and comment on them. I will pick up on one.

You say that Pope Benedict says the Holy Spirit does not choose the Pope. Are you then saying that when conclave invokes the Holy Spirit and prays together for guidance that the cardinals are wasting their time or worse that they are rejecting His guidance or that their prayers are not honest and genuine in their intention that they are merely lip service? As said before, this line of thought contradicts not only holy scripture but holy charity and therefore, for me, it is not Catholic. I am sure Pope Benedict did not mean his words to be taken in the way you present them.

As for Brian - he, like me, has access to all the Popes words on reintegration which clearly promote a traditional return to grace. He chooses not to quote these. I do not have time to dig them up. He does not work full time since his several strokes. I do, plus I have a life elsewhere. I pray for a full recovery for Brian.

I also pray that The Holy Spirit makes up for the deficit in my defence of the Holy Father but he has never encouraged unworthy reception nor held up sinful union as an option for Catholic doctrine. Again to say otherwise, for me, is not representative of the Catholic faith, and may well be tantamount to calumny. Whether it is calumny is not my call.

Why don't you spend your time, Dolours, looking up the good stuff the pope has said and quoting it in its best light for the edification of the faithful? I am sure you would do a great job.

 

Brian,

Not sure if I want to enter the colosseum. Not that im afraid, but we will both crawl out wounded and bleeding. But i would say there is a wonderful Abbey in California that trains saints. And one of the Brothers is very close to God. Father T

Maybe if you ever visit this abby, you will mention this spiritual battle to him.

Brother al

 

There you have it people, once again, Brian says our Pope is heretical, blasphemous and scandalous. Should such 'poison' (Padraig's word) really be injected into this forum. I say spit it out and real quick.

 

I would be grateful if there are articles you can refer me to where Kasper being disciplined or silenced by Popes JPII or Benedict is the subject. Thank you. This is new to me.

 

This Vatican document was published when Kasper publicly pushed this agenda in the early 1990s. It was a direct response by Pope John Paul II, by way of Cardinal Ratzinger, to Kasper's promotion of these errors:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...oc_14091994_rec-holy-comm-by-divorced_en.html

There's a good summary of the situation here:

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/n...doesnt-support-kasper-in-synod-debates-35882/

Excerpt:

The issue re-emerged in 1993, when Kasper, then Bishop of Rottenburg-Stuttgart, as well as two other German bishops, wrote a letter referring, according to Healy, to the teaching of Familiaris consortio as “a general norm that, while true, cannot regulate all of the very complex individual cases.”

The following year, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith published a letter to bishops, reminding them that “if the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God's law. Consequently, they cannot receive Holy Communion as long as this situation persists.”

The letter, written by Cardinal Ratzinger and approved by St. John Paul II, moreover stated that “members of the faithful who live together as husband and wife with persons other than their legitimate spouses may not receive Holy Communion … pastors in their teaching must also remind the faithful entrusted to their care of this doctrine.”

Cardinal Ratzinger and his congregation followed up on that letter, which “was met with a very lively response,” by studying several of the more significant objections to it.

The cardinal's follow-up letter, published in 1998, noting that while varying from the “oikonomia” practice of the Eastern Orthodox and the opinions of a few among the Church Fathers, the practice of the Catholic Church “recovered … the original concept of the Church Fathers,” which prohibits a “more varied praxis” regarding Communion for the divorced and remarried.

Finally, after his election as Pope Benedict XVI, Ratzinger wrote Sacramentum caritatis, the concluding document of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist, which noted that “where the nullity of the marriage bond is not declared and objective circumstances make it impossible to cease cohabitation, the Church encourages these members of the faithful to commit themselves to living their relationship in fidelity to the demands of God's law, as friends, as brother and sister; in this way they will be able to return to the table of the Eucharist, taking care to observe the Church's established and approved practice in this regard.”

 

If the folks there disagreed with us, they wouldn't have had Bishop Athanasius Schneider offer their week long annual retreat last month ;-)

 

i shall quote from the first link you provided. All well and good. But I was rather looking for an article where the censure of Cardinal Kasper was made clear. In some places, it has also been proposed that in order objectively to examine their actual situation, the divorced and remarried would have to consult a prudent and expert priest. This priest, however, would have to respect their eventual decision to approach Holy Communion, without this implying an official authorisation. In these and similar cases it would be a matter of a tolerant and benevolent pastoral solution in order to do justice to the different situations of the divorced and remarried. 4. Even if analogous pastoral solutions have been proposed by a few Fathers of the Church and in some measure were practiced, nevertheless these never attained the consensus of the Fathers and in no way came to constitute the common doctrine of the Church nor to determine her discipline. It falls to the universal Magisterium, in fidelity to Sacred Scripture and Tradition, to teach and to interpret authentically the depositum fidei. With respect to the aforementioned new pastoral proposals, this Congregation deems itself obliged therefore to recall the doctrine and discipline of the Church in this matter. In fidelity to the words of Jesus Christ(5), the Church affirms that a new union cannot be recognised as valid if the preceding marriage was valid. If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God's law. Consequently, they cannot receive Holy Communion as long as this situation persists(6). This norm is not at all a punishment or a discrimination against the divorced and remarried, but rather expresses an objective situation that of itself renders impossible the reception of Holy Communion: "They are unable to be admitted thereto from the fact that their state and condition of life objectively contradict that union of love between Christ and his Church which is signified and effected by the Eucharist. Besides this, there is another special pastoral reason: if these people were admitted to the Eucharist, the faithful would be led into error and confusion regarding the Church's teaching about the indissolubility of marriage"(7).

 

God definitely created us in his image. He did not create anything else in his image. Even the Angels are not created in Gods image even though they are a higher order than Man.

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH
SECTION TWO
II. THE VISIBLE WORLD

343 Man is the summit of the Creator's work, as the inspired account expresses by clearly distinguishing the creation of man from that of the other creatures.[211]

355 "God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them."[218] Man occupies a unique place in creation: (I) he is "in the image of God"; (II) in his own nature he unites the spiritual and material worlds; (III) he is created "male and female"; (IV) God established him in his friendship.

Like I said to you before there is nothing Mankind can do to make himself worthy of Gods love, this is already resolved. But Man is worthy of Gods love, because God is Love, and He created us out of that same Love. He demonstrated this by sending His only Son die on the Cross for us. If we were not worthy of Gods Love, why would He die for us?

218 In the course of its history, Israel was able to discover that God had only one reason to reveal himself to them, a single motive for choosing them from among all peoples as his special possession: his sheer gratuitous love.38 And thanks to the prophets Israel understood that it was again out of love that God never stopped saving them and pardoning their unfaithfulness and sins.39

219 God's love for Israel is compared to a father's love for his son. His love for his people is stronger than a mother's for her children. God loves his people more than a bridegroom his beloved; his love will be victorious over even the worst infidelities and will extend to his most precious gift: "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son."40

220 God's love is "everlasting":41 "For the mountains may depart and the hills be removed, but my steadfast love shall not depart from you."42 Through Jeremiah, God declares to his people, "I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you."43

221 But St. John goes even further when he affirms that "God is love":44 God's very being is love. By sending his only Son and the Spirit of Love in the fullness of time, God has revealed his innermost secret:45God himself is an eternal exchange of love, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and he has destined us to share in that exchange.

The soul does not change, it is a permanent fixture made by God in his image. Saying that it changes would refute that His Creation is perfect. The conditions the soul exists within may change, but the soul does not.

 

Cardinal Kasper was called on the carpet and made to report to Rome and the CDF published a correction based directly on his false notions:
When Ratzinger Said No: A History of the Kasper Proposal

That is a censure in and of itself, and was noted as such in the media at the time. (Due to current events, I'm having a hard time locating articles regarding the subject from that time frame.)