The Warning, Or Illumination Of Conscience

Sr Lucia was wise in her simplicity. Did she actually say the consecration OF RUSSIA was accomplished or just the consecration. Did her assurance that God would keep His word mean that we would suffer the consequences of the deficit in the consecration that was made. No one with any awareness of world affairs can say the last 32 years have been peaceful. We in the west have escaped the ravages of war. Many others have not been so fortunate. Then there are are the deaths in the abortion 'war' 1500 million in that period. (50 million a year for 30 years) plus the unintentioned deaths caused by chemical contraception.

 

I see nothing in any of the above that tells us there will be any warning, miracle or heavenly intervention on the 100th anniversary of Fatima.

My understanding of the consequences of failure to consecrate Russia was that there would be a third world war. Although there have been regional conflicts, we haven't had a world war, so maybe that's what was meant by the period of peace. I recall reading somewhere that in the Old Testament there tended to be periods of about 40 years between God's intervention to guide, correct or assist the Jews and the Jews falling back into their old ways. Maybe someone here knows whether there was a pattern that could give us some guidance?

As to the "messages" in GSWYL (which I know wasn't one of your posts), I don't believe that God is "speaking" to that lady. There's nothing wrong with the messages, but anyone could have written them, and could have conveyed the message in a few sentences. If these "messages" are genuine, it has taken many thousands of years for God to become so long winded.

 

First off, Verne is a man, not a woman. I assume you have not read any of his messages in GSWYL, as your post would suggest. It's your prerogative to shoot from the hip, but I don't think it is prudent to do so. God and his Blessed Mother are surely speaking to not a few messengers and prophets in these times as scripture attests would happen. Most people do not give any credence to messengers, because it takes allot of time to read and discern and that might take time away from their TV, Facebook, and other events more entertaining . Like I said, several priests and theologians have taken the time to read GSWYL messages and contrary to those who have not they believe them to be credible.

On another note, the Fatima messages did not say anything about a 3rd world war as you suggest. However, Pope Francis has as much said it is taking place as we speak. So that kind of debunks your theory on the many wars that were posted for those who believe the era of peace already took place.

 

Maybe not, but there are a few interesting things associated with Fatima and the Hebrew Calendar.

The one hundred years since the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima will occur on 13 October 2017 (5778) which is Simchat Torah (Rejoicing in the Torah) of 5778 which concludes the Feast of Tabernacles. Simchat Torah celebrates Moses coming down from the mountain with the Torah, which is the Word of G_D. Jesus is the Word of G_D made flesh. Sukkot (the Feast of Booths, or Feast of Tabernacles) is significant because where Scripture says "The Word was made Flesh and dwelt among them", the word translated as "dwelt" is the word for "Tabernacle". A more direct translation is "The Word was made Flesh and tabernacled among them".

 

You're right. There was no mention of a third world war and a period of peace was promised if Russia were consecrated. It wasn't consecrated in time and the errors spread. Perhaps the late consecration mitigated the benefits. We didn't get world peace but at least there wasn't a massacre as depicted in the third part of the secret. It's above our pay grade to decide whether or not there should be yet another consecration. Our Lady's request to us hasn't changed.

Now, about GSWYL, I didn't visit the website. Seeing some of the messages posted here was enough to keep me well away from it. Theologians and priests have said that the messages are credible. Where have they confirmed that God is relaying messages to the world via this man? Better than Facebook or TV doesn't make something Heaven sent.

Yes, scripture talks about people dreaming dreams and having visions. It doesn't say that we should drop everything and hang on every word of every person who claims to have been chosen by God to deliver messages. For all anyone knows, the man could be well intentioned but delusional. Has anyone checked previous material that he has written prior to receiving the "messages" to do a before and after comparison of writing style? I'll say a prayer for him but I certainly won't be visiting his website. Better to read scripture and pray, which I think is more prudent and time better spent than reading "messages".

Muzhik: That's very interesting. Thank you. Do you know whether there's anything to the 40 years between corrections and falling away? Sorry that I can't give you a source because I don't know where I read it. It was just something that stuck in my mind. Could the "dreams and visions" from Acts 2:17 be the Illumination of Conscience?

 

This book GSWYL was given to several priests and theologians who are known for great wisdom in this area of prophetic discernment. I will not name them, as it would not convince most anyhow. Most people, including priests and laity are not gifted in this area of discernment, but those who are have spoken positively on this book. People who know nothing about Verne or Cletus would not necessarily benefit as much from the book. I won't even try to convince people who don't want to pray and discern messages, as they would not be persuaded the least bit if the Church had not 'approved' it. They are not necessary for salvation, but I have found that they fill, for our moment in time, allot of what scripture was vague on and foretold would take place. Many statues and images of our Blessed Mother and Jesus have wept real tears and blood because of disbelief and so few are listening (even approved ones like Akita). No one that I know of is dropping everything and hanging on every word that every messenger speaks. This is a very vain comment that shows you have no grasp on what heaven is doing in the world today.

Let me give just one story on Cletus, who's messages are in the front of the book. He has since passed, but a few years ago, when the bridge that crosses the Mississippi river in Minneapolis to St. Paul Minnesota collapsed, Cletus was seen handing our small wooden crosses to the victims there, while not leaving his home on the phone with Verne. Yes, he bi-located and was known to have many spiritual gifts that few know about. Enough said.

 

What has the local Bishop said about this?

Although hanging on every word was an exaggeration, there have been cases of people being duped by supposedly very holy people who turned out to be bogus. I'm sure you have heard of our most recent example, Maria Divine Mercy. She didn't get to the stage of having theologians affirming her messages but plenty of very devout Catholics believed her because she was telling them what they wanted to hear. She was exposed by a secular newspaper and even after that people were still defending her. Then there's Christina Gallagher and her houses of prayer http://www.sundayworld.com/news/cri...ome-forward-in-wake-of-house-of-prayer-attack The link is to a follow-up on a story that the Newspaper ran on Christina Gallagher. Someone posted a link on this forum in the past couple of days to a website about visionaries and prophesies. Christina Gallagher was on that list. I didn't bother reading any further. Her "Spiritual Advisor" is a priest.

Neither MDM nor Christina Gallagher had approval from their Bishops (MDM wouldn't disclose her whereabouts), but plenty of their followers expected approval from the Church. A quick web search will tell you whether people are still defending them. Note the last sentence in the linked news report: “I blame the Church, the authorities and the police for not putting her out of business after your revelations. It is such a scandal.”

Followers of both of the above examples are very devout, prayerful, holy Catholics. I happen to think that prudence should warn us to wait for Church approval because by following every other self proclaimed locutionist or visionary we won't recognise the real deal when the time comes. What's worse, disillusioned people could be led away from the Church. Better to wait for approval than to be led astray or to lead others astray.

 

Excellent points!!

Your comments got me thinking more about the "Era of Peace" and what it means. Perhaps Our Lady simply meant that if her requests were heeded then Chastisement would be averted, not that some sort of Utopia would be granted.

 

Like many ordinary Catholics I have a duty of obedience to the Church; the Church’s prelates the voice of the Church, have stated to the Catholic faithful on the matter of authenticity of the consecration of Russia on the 25th March 1984, as being accepted by Heaven according to Sister Lucia.


I do not want to start thinking that either Sister Lucia or many of our good church Fathers were lying to the faithful!


How despicable a thought is that!


In my above post that you replied to, I did not say that the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary had been accomplished and nor did Sister Lucia. Even in Our Lady’s words at Fatima, the consecration of Russia is only one of the many means and requirements, before the final 'Triumph of Her Immaculate Heart'.


You have seen hell, where the souls of poor sinners go. It is to save them that God wants to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If you do what I tell you, many souls will be saved, and there will be peace. This war will end, but if men do not refrain from offending God, another and more terrible war will begin during the pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night that is lit by a strange and unknown light [this occurred on January 28, 1938], you will know it is the sign God gives you that He is about to punish the world with war and with hunger, and by the persecution of the Church and the Holy Father.


To prevent this, I shall come to the world to ask that Russia be consecrated to my Immaculate Heart, and I shall ask that on the First Saturday of every month Communions of reparation be made in atonement for the sins-of the world. If my wishes are fulfilled, Russia will be converted and there will be peace; if not, then Russia will spread her errors throughout the world, bringing new wars and persecution of the Church; the good will be martyred and the Holy Father will have much to suffer; certain nations will be annihilated.

But in the end my Immaculate Heart will triumph.

The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she will be converted, and the world will enjoy a period of peace. In Portugal the faith will always be preserved... [Here belongs the part of the Secret of which Cardinal Sodano spoke at the Mass of Beatification, and which the Congregation for Doctrine of the Faith will publish, with commentary.] Remember, you must not tell this to anyone except Francisco.


When Our Lady says....... To prevent this, (the prevention of this future and more terrible war)I shall come to the world to ask that Russia be consecrated to my Immaculate Heart, and I shall ask that on the First Saturday of every month Communions of reparation be made in atonement for the sins-of the world. If my wishes are fulfilled, Russia will be converted and there will be peace;

Our Lady’s wishes were not fulfilled and WW11 occurred and Our Lady goes on to tell us what else would also happen if Her wishes were not fulfilled.

if not, then Russia will spread her errors throughout the world, bringing new wars and persecution of the Church; the good will be martyred and the Holy Father will have much to suffer; certain nations will be annihilated.


Next Our Lady reassures the children and us by stating, on its own, and in one sentence.......... But in the end my Immaculate Heart will triumph.

Then her next sentence...... The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she will be converted, and the world will enjoy a period of peace.

I may be looked upon as one who is mistaken or worse still, as one who is foolish, childish or blind.
And I very well may be mistaken, foolish and blind but I am also obedient to church authority and to the word of my church leaders; Padre Pio is my inspiration in this.

Our Lady kept her promise and I feel we are beyond privileged to have received this last 32 years of undeserving peace and it should have been used for greater things.

But we have taken this extended period of peace for granted, we have sat on our hands and gloated in our achievements which has played into satans hands and he has run amuck.

I also believe......

This undeserved peace is soon to be extinguished!

 

I'm inclined to agree with you Josephite. Our Lady said that in the end her Immaculate Heart will triumph. That's why I'm asking whether the Illumination of Conscience could be what is described by St. Peter at Pentecost in the Acts of the Apostles because God says he will pour out a portion of His spirit upon all flesh.

17. ‘It will come to pass in the last days,’ God says,
‘that I will pour out a portion of my spirit upon all flesh.
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
your young men shall see visions,
your old men shall dream dreams.

18. Indeed, upon my servants and my handmaids
I will pour out a portion of my spirit in those days,
and they shall prophesy.

19. And I will work wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below:
blood, fire, and a cloud of smoke.

20. The sun shall be turned to darkness,
and the moon to blood,
before the coming of the great and splendid day of the Lord,

21. and it shall be that everyone shall be saved who calls on
the name of the Lord.’

 

Yes lots of wars and really bad happenings in the world, related to satans hand and hatred.


But New Zealand, Australia, United States, many Europian countries and more, have not had a war to deal with on thier shores and have continued to prosper both economically and materially, and this peace given to us by Our Lady was for us to step up to the plate, and it may seem inadequate or not good enough, but it has been our chance to do something to help Our Lord and Our Lady!


When we consider the horrors of what Our Lady has warned us will come, and it will come to all of mankind and it will encompass the entire world; our tune may change, as we implore Our Blessed Mother for even a semblance of that not so great peace to return.

That 33 years of peace will be longed for, and we will regret not having used it to save more souls.

 

So when Our Lady said the WORLD will be granted a period of peace, she actually only meant the countries you mention?

 

I do not believe we as a people will experience the Glory of our Resurrection before we taste the bitter wine of our Crucifixtion.

Grace is free, but it isn't cheap.

 

No, peace was and is extended to the world, its how we respond to that peace freely offered and freely given!

Our Lady didn't say, 'and by the way satan will not be active during this peace that I will give you after the Consecration to my Immaculate Heart'

 

Matthew 5:45

45 so that you may be children of your Father in heaven, for he causes his sun to rise on the bad as well as the good, and sends down rain to fall on the upright and the wicked alike.

Just as God causes His good things to come on all people, so too this peace was offered to the whole world.

If one decides during this peace, to abort a baby, murder his neighbour or bomb the state office, that is human evil; don't judge Our Lady provision of this period of peace on the evil of men.

 

This type of peace has always been available.No need for Fatima.


' If My requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace'

So before Peace , Russia must be converted.
Since Russia has not been converted we have not yet had the period of peace.
Why do you twist Her words?

 

So you believe that in 1984 had not Our Holy Father consecraetd Russia and the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary we would have lived the last 32 years just as we have lived them?
No need for the pointless consecration of Pope JP11 in 1984 in union with the college of Bishops throughout the world and in fact it was useless.

I suppose this is where faith comes into it, because I tend to believe that in 1884 when pope Leo X111 heard Jesus and satan converse about the following 75-100 years, that this indeed is a truth.

But I am unsure whether you believe Pope Leo X111?

If not thats ok and I'm not judging you or anyone that do not believe what our popes say,
but thats where your faith and mine differ.

You are a good man Mac.
Please Pray for me.

God Bless

 

There were other good consecration efforts before 1984.
Pius XII even mentioned 'Russia' .


In the End...

Sadly we are already told it will be' In the End' after the annhilation of nations.

In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to Me, and she will be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.


God Bless you too Josephite.

 

Amen!!

 

Pope Leo did not know just when the period of the 100 years would begin for there was not as yet a mechanism for such universal spread. That mechanism was Russian Communism, the Red Dragon, which began with the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917. And the remedy for that was given at the same time! God does not leave us orphans.