The Warning, Or Illumination Of Conscience

someone needs an ear scratched...

 

you seem to be one of the driving forces for this debate Mac... I barely comment on this topic, but your name seems to be frequent on this non issue of Russia Consecrated... to each there own I guess

 

You always bring the funny Mac...well sometimes lol

 

We all respect the Orthodox and yes, their priesthood and sacraments are indeed valid. But they are still schismatic. There is only one true Church of Christ and that subsists in the Catholic Church.

Prior to 1960 no Catholic would have seen the conversion of Russia as anything except her coming home to Rome. It's only with the advent of the false ecumenism of the post-VII period that anyone would even suggest that Russia would not return to the fold to fulfill this prophecy.

 

I wonder what Blue Horizon would say about the Fatima/ Russia issue on consecration...

I never read any of his thoughts about this... maybe he has none?

Unchain BH...its the year of Mercy, forgive us our trespasses as we forgive... Pope Francis tells us , all things thru dialogue...dialogue...dialogue. If BH annoys you, use ignore... Way more radical things are said then anything BH says...

 

return to the fold in a Byzintine way? Which is still Eastern

 

Sure, they're eastern but they're fully Catholic and under the Pope. I spent a number of years in the Byzantine Rite and greatly respect it.

Do I think men will accomplish this reunion through their ecumenical efforts? No, never.

But I think God will work it through His own intervention.

 

As far as I know, the Byzintine and Orthodox celebrate a very similar Mass, written by St John Chrysostum(sp) orthodox don't pray for the Pope and some other variables I forget

wriiten by St John 3rd Century

 

That's how I understood it too, but until recently the understanding was that Russia would no longer be atheist and the schism would be healed. Maybe we expected too much. There's the added complication that the Orthodox permit divorce and remarriage. When did they allow divorce? Was it before or after the 1960's?

Note to Brian: All we can do is stick to what we know is right and trust that the Holy Spirit will find a way to get everything back on track. Thanks to the Holy Spirit, the Church has survived some terrible Popes. Schismatics and self-righteous heretic splinter groups haven't fared so well.

 

The Church defines the Orthodox as Schismatic. They are NOT in Communion with the Church. They are dealt with by ecumenical gestures.

According to the Church, the SSPX is an internal Church matter. They are in Communion but they are in an irregular juridical situation. They are not heretics or schismatics.

It's hypocritical to bend over backwards to please the schismatic Orthodox while treating the SSPX, who are by definition Catholic, as such pariahs or heretics.

I attend diocesan churches and am not an SSPX advocate or apologist but most trads now recognize this hypocrisy on the part of Churchmen and reject it.

 

I have some sympathy for the SSPX Brian. I often wonder how much of a part pride plays in all these schisms and splintering. A dose of humility and charity on all sides might have saved the Church a lot of problems in the past. Trouble is, the longer the separation drags on the more people dig in their heels and we end up with what the Pope is trying to sort out with the Lutherans. If I remember correctly, Luther started out complaining that Rome wasn't orthodox enough. Now look at them.

I thought that the Orthodox were allowed receive communion in our Church but that they don't regard our sacraments as valid. Was I wrong in my understanding that Rome permits us to fulfil our Sunday obligation in an Orthodox Church if there is no Catholic Church available to us, but that the Orthodox neither permit their members to receive in a Catholic Church nor give Communion to a Catholic? Hope that makes sense.

I'm not so sure that the Lutherans are getting what they want. Their Bishop's comment about the Pope having enemies in the Vatican hindering inter-Communion could have been spin. Time will tell.

 

Are you serious Brian?
You don't support SSPX but use their media sources for quotes to support your Church positions or anti Pope Francis positions.

The SSPX started by ex communicated ArchBishop Lefeb, who like Martin Luther, the Father of Protestantism, called Rome the seat of anti Christ...are we talking about the same SSPX Brian?

They dress and act Catholic Brian, smells and bells all look nice ,but they reject the popes !
Be honest Brian, search EWTN on Fr Grunner (Fatima Crusader magazine) and Catholic Family news( I believe that's ....ex Fr grunners newspaper ) how they linked with the Remnant newspaper/ remnant news(youtube) and they both made a joint decleration against Pope John Paul II...IN YOUR FACE, WE WILL RESIST YOU.....search EWTN, They have the statement... 2 groups Good Catholics should run from....poison folks, all poison. But some feel they can drink the cup... Sons of Zebedee, we can!

 

I don't play your games.

Do you or do you not agree with this pope inviting Lutherans to receive the Holy Eucharist?

 

I play NO games....

you get fast and furious with news clips Brian! stand DOWN!

 

You're still playing games and refuse to answer the question IJoP, so I regret that I'll now have to employ the ignore button in your regard. Bye.

 

WAAAAAAH Brian took his ball back and is goin home!

 

You lifted BASTO as Truth in his posts, I pointed a MAJIOR FLAW, but you want it excluded, narrowed to your own points of what Truth is, but im playing games

If BH was here , he'd go thru this bs like Edward scissors hands...

 

Definitely. But it's worth watching the story of LeFevre's life. You realize what an incredible, effective and saintly missionary he really was prior to VII, and why he did what he did after VII. In other words, background provides context and objectivity and removes the progressivists' bias and subjectivity.

Correct (for most of Orthodoxy, but there may be exceptions - I'm not certain about the Oriental Orthodox.)

 

Pssst, dont anyone tell Joe.

 

LeFeb was a missionary Bishop in Africa in the 1960's The Holy Ghost Fathers/ Spiritans in the USA. I have 2 uncles who were priests in the order who remained faithful to the Church. Lefeb faced rebellion from the order and wanted him out.
Come 1980's, Lefeb, getting older and his mistrust of Rome, like Fr Grunner wanted there order/apostalate to carry on after them. LeFeb wanted Bishops, for Bishops can ordain Priests. But Lefebs problem was, that Pope JP2 said no!( No Papal mandate to ordain a Bishop ) LeFeb protested! JP2 warned LeFeb not to go forth with ordaining ! ( My Local Parish Priest who celebrated the Tridentine Mass that same night of decision for LeFeb,said Holy Mass LeFeb would not ordain and stay with Rome... LeFeb, like Grunner, apostolates were above the Church )

Im not the best at articulating things, but its all on the internet...the History of LeFeb and the SSPX movement. I spoke the truth, several members who call some of us as burying our heads in the sane are sand dunes themselves. My Dad ad a Great line, don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!

Mother, cover us in thy Mantle...Mercy