The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Sunnyveil

    Sunnyveil Archangels


    Just my 2 cents: Jesus went up to the Mount of Olives to give his discourse on the end times (Matthew chapter 24). Pope Benedict views the primary role of the pope to be spiritual and believes the pope's greatest (most glorious?) role to be that of suffering like Christ. Christ was mostly silent during His passion. Thus the name, glory of the olive.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
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  2. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Except that Benedict is no longer the Pope. See how circular this is? We will
    have to agree to disagree on this. In all charity
     
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  3. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    It may be best if we followed Christ’s example and suffered this in silence without seeking to know that which is hidden and reserved to God. My two cents. :)
     
  4. Sunnyveil

    Sunnyveil Archangels

    Always in charity because we're all in this together and kind of along for the ride. Always in prayer hopefully.
     
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  5. Sunnyveil

    Sunnyveil Archangels

    Pope Benedict himself said that being pope becomes part of one's being. He said it's like becoming a father. Even though a father no longer has day to day responsibilites, he always remains Father, Papa. He still views himself as the spiritual father.

    For the salvation of our own souls we are bound to seek the truth. As the future unfolds, we could end up following evil rather than good. It will likely seem the easier path especially if we abdicate our duty to seek the truth. I don't think we have to be 100% certain but understanding what the possibilites are goes a long way in helping us make good decisions. That's why God gave us our brains with the ability to reason along with our souls and the duty to pray.

    All persons are bound to seek the truth in those things which regard God and His Church and by virtue of divine law are bound by the obligation and possess the right of embracing and observing the truth which they have come to know.
    Canon 748.1
     
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  6. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I know the canon well. It can be cherry picked to fit one’s agenda.
    People think they know all about what is going on in PE Benedict’s mind based on a few statements and meager signs. I am not going down that rabbit hole, especially since people have thrown that canon out twice in a few days time as their rationale. I’m not being guilt tripped by it.
    Edited
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
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  7. Mario

    Mario Powers

    In college I was a member of the Chess Club. When observing two other members playing a game, I could come up with an definitive opinion as to what the next best move would be, but it would ever remain an opinion; it was not my move to make.

    In trying to determine whether Benedict is Pope or not, it doesn't really impact the choices I make on any given day. What I think concerning the situation doesn't change anything!

    Come Holy Spirit enlighten my heart to perceive the Will of God in each of my situations.

    God bless Pope Francis and Pope Emeritus Benedict.

    Safe in Mary's Arms!
     
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  8. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Thank you, Mario. You always have the right words. Maybe not chess moves.... :D
     
  9. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Could it be that Pope Emeritus Benedict has pulled off the greatest chess move in Church History? By separating the petrinum munus from the Romanitas before our very eyes?

    Time will tell whether it was a master stroke ordained by God through this simple man but it is merely an hypothesis at the moment.

    An hypothesis can at a future time be proved or disproved if more evidence becomes available. Future generations, even a council will carefully analyse the evidence and come to conclusions about this mysterious resignation but please God we will all be in Heaven looking down and interceding for the Church Militant asking God to bless our descendants.
     
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  10. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I wouldn't go so far as to call it a master stroke ordained by God. Don't forget that the idea of a bifurcated Papacy is not canonical.
     
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  11. Sam

    Sam Powers



    Also remember the lightning striking St. Peter's dome[twice?]
     
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  12. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Yes, now that you mention it!
     
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  13. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    That is why I carefully wrote 'could' be a master-stroke in my response to Mario.

    I believe it is an interesting hypothesis.

    Hypothesis = a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation.

    The hypothesis given does not suggest a bifurcated Papacy. It suggests that Pope Benedict is still Pope (holding onto the petrinum munus) and Francis is only Bishop of Rome (Romanitas).

    I am not saying I agree with this only that I find it interesing.
     
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  14. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    When I read Amoris Laetitia I could not believe what I was reading -- alarm bells kept ringing throughout --

    I think I have very good Catholic instincts.

    And many of the paragraphs I read were disturbing and did not seem Catholic to me.

    It is indeed very hard to read AL in light of tradition which is what I have tried to do!

    In my opinion it will be corrected in the future or made clearer by a future Pope.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
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  15. Mario

    Mario Powers

    The first highlight is an accurate appraisal! :cool::)

    Concerning the second: I desire to live long enough to witness it; maybe during the Era of Peace. At least then the faithful won't have to weigh the pros and cons of statements coming out of the Vatican! :D However, I do bear the name of two martyrs! And my first name was given in honor of St. Therese. It is safe to say she died prematurely.:censored:

    Come Lord Jesus with the Clarity of Truth!

    John 8:31 If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
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  16. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    But PEB believed in the concept of a bifurcated Papacy.
     
  17. garabandal

    garabandal Powers


    If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. 20Remember the word that I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you as well; if they kept My word, they will keep yours as well. 21But they will treat you like this because of My name, since they do not know the One who sent Me.…

    We are to imitate Him in all things. May God grant us the grace to persevere to the end even to the shedding of our blood for Love of Him.
     
  18. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Another reason why some doubt the legitmacy of his resignation because he would be in substantial error in holding this position.
     
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  19. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I'm reluctant to concur, but...…...
     
  20. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    I accept fully that Francis is Pope.

    I am not a Benevacantist - as much as I sympathise there is not enough evidence.

    We as lay people are not in a position to make such judgements anyway. We can't formally declare on this & it would be wrong to do so.

    But this forum is great because we can speculate and debate these things in a fraternal spirit.

    We live in interesting times with 2 Popes behind the walls of the Vatican albeit one is a Pope Emeritus!!
     
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