If you were to quote that to a practising homosexual, do you think their reaction would more likely be: ok i better stop, or mind your own ****business ? it doesn work in this day and age. How do you people not realize this? Start looking at things as if you were on the other side of the fence (although in your case Padraig, you may have put yourself in that position anyway)
If it is your case that the intention of Pope Francis is to use Amoris Laetitia as a means of lancing the abscess and drawing out the poison, in other words exposing the heretics to plain view, I pray that you are right. If so, it is a risky strategy, but if guided by the Holy Spirit it would work. Since most people have not been privileged with this grand secret, their outrage is understandable and proper. But the underlining reality remains that neither doctrine nor the practice founded upon it can change. The outcome of this proposed gamble must be orthodox. The alternative theory, that Pope Francis is making an error, or worse, a bad pope (he wouldn't be the first, no matter what the ubersuperultramontanists maintain), remains to me, for now, the most plausible.
I am hoping Charlie J is right and the Pope may have made a big bo bo; then realise and get back on track. We are all human and if Charlie is on the right track, we could find ourselves with a great Pope in the final analysis. God bless the Pope. In the mean time our duty is to pray and offer reparation for the sins, outrages and offenses inflicted on the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary by those who have lost the Faith.
It is still the duty of the Church to preach right and wrong. I agree, given the militant nature of the current movement of united perverts (they seem to be running out of alphabet at this stage), that, while not backing down on the doctrine, a strategy of shaking the dust from the sole of one's shoes might be best adopted. These people know the teaching-their anger at correction proves that. Additionally, their sin remains a private and occasional one. No outsider can know if someone has engaged in sodomy. However, particularly in smaller communities, people know what adulterous couples are up to and as they continue to live together their sin is both public and ongoing. This distinguishes it from much other sin, including such as serial-killing which would consist of much graver matter, that would not be generally known except to the sinners and God.
The anger of the homosexuals clearly demonstrates they know well what they are doing. It is also plainly to be seen in their long-term strategy to target those who oppose them because of their religious convictions. You are quick to throw personal insult at those you accuse of ignorance. Such tactics are resorted to by people who lack an argument or, having one, lack conviction in it. It is yourself who seems unaware of the sophisticated strategy of the LGBT movement to attack Natural Law and to intimidate those who consider sodomy a sin. The LGBT movement, and many of their indoctrinated membership, display a knowledge of Natural Law and Moral Theology that would put most orthodox Catholics to shame. They know the most essential dictum of anyone who intends to go to war-'know your enemy'.
Romans 2: [11] For there is no respect of persons with God. [12] For whosoever have sinned without the law, shall perish without the law; and whosoever have sinned in the law, shall be judged by the law. [13] For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. [14] For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature those things that are of the law; these having not the law are a law to themselves: [15] Who shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness to them, and their thoughts between themselves accusing, or also defending one another. You see smudger, they know what they are doing is contrary to the law written within their hearts. This is why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, as he could not find 5 just people there. The fact that we live in an age that is pagan is all the more reason we need clarity from the highest office in the church. Ignorance is not a saving grace, for one is culpable to sin when they have the resources to know sin, but do not want to live by truth, so their soul is darkened with sin. The following sums it all up. Romans 1: [14] To the Greeks and to the barbarians, to the wise and to the unwise, I am a debtor; [15] So (as much as is in me) I am ready to preach the gospel to you also that are at Rome. [16] For I am not ashamed of the gospel. For it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, to the Jew first, and to the Greek. [17] For the justice of God is revealed therein, from faith unto faith, as it is written: The just man liveth by faith. [18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and injustice of those men that detain the truth of God in injustice: [19] Because that which is known of God is manifest in them. For God hath manifested it unto them. [20] For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; his eternal power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable. [21] Because that, when they knew God, they have not glorified him as God, or given thanks; but became vain in their thoughts, and their foolish heart was darkened. [22] For professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. [23] And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man, and of birds, and of fourfooted beasts, and of creeping things. [24] Wherefore God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness, to dishonour their own bodies among themselves. [25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. [26] For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. [27] And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. [28] And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness, full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity, whisperers, [30] Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] Foolish, dissolute, without affection, without fidelity, without mercy. [32] Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them.
Hi Smudger, I was reading my thread Aviso News then the one at the top of list of this forum as usual, a very interesting thread with different opinions, Garabandal as Fatima are reminding the teachings of the Church and I thanks them as many are probably reading you, you are Great, Padraid has also a great Courage but let me apologize as well, many contacted me in private about Joe Crozier, one of my good friend and former readers of my blog, Joe is a very good man and I know him quite well, I feel sorry as he was not known online before being on of my readers, a kind of fruit of Garabandal News blog, so Joe my friend to me you cannot lie, Smudger cannot be someone else, be fair and don't forget many are reading you as well, thanks.
Hi Aviso, Honestly I am not Joe. I think someone pointed out last week that Joe's comments were always much longer than mine. I think someone stated he also live in Australia/New Zealand way. I have never been there once in my life. Sorry about that
So what works "in this day and age" smudger? Vague talk? Confused talk? Half truths? Misguided false compassion? False tolerance? The liberals (the bible calls them 'lukewarm') in the Church have been using these tactics now for 45+ years and look at the mess we are in!!! Jesus never spoke half truths, he was not misguided in teaching false compassion for the sinners ("go and sin no more" he told the adulterous woman after showing her true compassion). "The law is written on all men's hearts", they know truth and they reject it, just like they are rejecting now the constant teaching of the church on divorce and remarried (without annulment) receiving communion. sudger, was St. Mother Teresa wrong to bring abortion strait to the face of the Clinton's at their prayer breakfast? She had no problem speaking plain truth to sinners, even if the Clinton's were not about to change their evil way's. Maybe she should have given them 'half truths', or soften her approach as you say.
Actually padraig, smudger is doing us all a favor by exposing what the lukewarm are doing in the church today. They will give you some truth and mix it will half truth and false compassion and then turn it on those who will not compromise the truth to try and make them feel guilty for proclaiming God's unchanging truths. It is real important for this to be displayed here on MOG, so that the true colors will be manifest for all to see. Revelatoins 3:15-16 [15] I know thy works, that thou art neither cold, nor hot. I would thou wert cold, or hot. [16] But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth.
Just like Saul who was destined for hell it was only by God's divine mercy was he shown the light. Most today are lost to the world in some way. Some in very small ways and some seemingly lost forever. God isn't just the law. God is love. He can allow people that never had a chance to fall into hell and perhaps does. He can also save a hardened sinner at his last breath, or even after as many NDE's suggest. I think saving those grave sinners is in our power as we are taught. While some argue over this and that others are offering everything they can for the sake of all sinners. What window this opens for them is unknown but I truly believe love can conquer a multitude of sins. We all need saving and everyone reading has vices or tendencies they must battle. I think if everyone revealed there sins and tendencies like in confession here we'd see a much more humble and empathetic exchange. Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
I'm more worried about "Sheep in Sheep's Clothing"! Our Catholic Church in particular and mainstream Christian Churches in general have been filled with these mushy middle & "Can't we just all get along" Sheep in Clerical Clothing that have brought us, these past 50 years, to where we are now! GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!
God can only save those who accept truth, as God is truth. His mercy is open to all, but it can only be accepted by accepting truth. God keeps throwing mercy out for all, but few have accepted his truth, thus they deprive themselves of sanctifying grace. Calling on the name of the Lord is calling for truth, as God is truth. True compassion is united to truth, not half truth. Mercy, grace, compassion, patience and love are always on display from our God, but when they are rejected for lack of accepting truth, they die on the surface. But, our merciful God will keep trying to bring them home, but they won't cross the threshold until they repent from past deadly sins and open their hearts wide for the fullness of God's truth (who of us have not been there)? The lukewarm who are giving them half truths and false compassion are not doing them a favor. When we speak to the lost sheep we do so with compassion as our Lord surely did, but never half truths so that they get confused.
The removal of 'smudger' from the forum is, for me, the final straw that has broken the camel's back. I have been fairly appalled by many of the forum posts abusing Pope Francis but felt I should remain on the forum while posts defending him were being allowed. But with the removal of 'smudger' (the terrible name was the only negative thing about him!), it is clear that free comment is no longer going to be allowed. Smudger's posts over the past few weeks have been excellent, even if occasionally presented a little more robustly than I might have done. I realised that his clarity and soundness of response to those who mistakenly view Pope Francis negatively was ultimately going to be his downfall. The MoG forum has been an excellent forum as it did allow very different points of view to be expressed but it is clear that it is to become just another 'blog' that tries to undermine Pope Francis. I can no longer participate in it.
