Yes , in Mystical Theology they talk of a Way of Darkness and a Way of Light; Dionysus the Areopagite identified two main ways of speaking about God: cataphatic and apophatic. Via positiva tries to positively indicate what God is, even if what is being said is significantly limited. Via negativa is a way of speaking about God through negative claims, attempting to describe God by what He is not. Although the cataphatic way provides us with some vague account of God, it is apophaticism that can be said to be the ultimate way of reaching out towards the Divine https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/humani...ka-david-garlick-2021-prize-winning-essay.pdf
In the Jewish Kabbalistic (a Mystical Tradition) they speak of the 36 just men {Tzadikim Nistarum) who will save the World. Who, in a sense carry the world on their backs as Moses did in his own time, speaking to God face to face: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzadikim_Nistarim This reminds me of our own Catholic Traditions of Victims Souls who offer themselves up to God for the Salvation of the World. Padre Pio or Don Dolindo would have been good examples of such, though there are many. Colossians 1:24 Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. Another good example of such people are what I would call, 'Super Saints', who kind of carried the Church up on their backs in certain periods of Church history. For instance, St Paul of Tarsus, St Mary Magdalen , St Anthony the Great, St Benedict, St Francis of Assisi and so on... Malachi Martin spoke years ago of , 'Grace draining from the World', in our times in referring to the Great Apostacy.
Maybe. Things are so bad in the Church. I always think of what Our Lady advises us to do at the present time. In one of her first messages, Our Lady gave us a present of the Five Stones of Medjugorje: praying the Rosary with our heart every day fasting twice every week visiting the Holy Confession every month receiving the Eucharist every Sunday reading the Bible every day From this I see that Our Lady want us to take some very basic steps, baby steps. If she asks this it is because people have not taken these baby steps. To totter before we run. I have noticed that Adoration is very,very important in Medugorje and from time to time demons manifest..as though they are being driven out.
Richard Rohr would not be one to follow regarding contemplation. Contemplation goes hand in hand with being in the state of grace and self mortification. Thomas Merton went in the direction of transcendental meditation towards the end of his life is my understanding. Meditation should always be focused on the humanity of Jesus and not some attainment of mind emptying oblivion
I really, really advise you to have nothing at all to do with the three writers you name, Thomas Merton, John Main and Richard Rohr as they are false teachers. I haven't studied the fourth that you mention Lawrence Freeman but if he is a disciple of John Main flee him too. I don't want to be getting into endless debates about false Spiritual, 'Teachers', you may have become attached to, but I recommend any Modern Catholics today to go back to the classical writings, especially those of the saints, like St Teresa of Avila or St Bernard or St Benedict or the Desert Fathers and so on. As Pope Paul VI said a long time ago, 'The smoke of Satan has entered into the Church'. Honestly as far as false teachers are concerned I would guess from the about the end of the 19th century onwards they crept up like weeds everywhere as Satan was given a hundred years to test the Church. If you have a Spiritual Director who is either letting or encouraging you to read such stuff dump him as quick as ever you can. The teachings of Modern Saints are fine too. Saints only. But I find on the Spiritual life books are like fine wines, the older the better and the safer. Padre Pio was good modern saint. His volumes of letters to his Spiritual Father are excellent. https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1162674657&dest=gbr&ref_=ps_ggl_2038407968&cm_mmc=ggl-_-UK_Shopp_RareStandard-_-product_id=bi: 1162674657-_-keyword=&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8pKxBhD_ARIsAPrG45kT1gLqtvPAiAWZ_wjNf5aah45Y9tESvUTspoA1ojla9cJVIet5Pg0aAke-EALw_wcB
Fulton Sheen is another good example of a modern writer but he was a saint. Mother Angelica is another good one, she is not yet declared a saint..yet..but she will be. There is as much chance of the writers you mention being declared saints as Joe Biden.
For some reason, this thread brings me to St. Thomas Aquinas. What happened to him as he contemplated or experienced something that caused him - one of the greatest theologians of all time- to stop writing and say, “I can write no more. All that I have written seems like straw.”? I’m not sure if it’s the same, but I know for me, the more I think and contemplate on God, the more I realize I just don’t know (in the human/material sense). So, my contemplating now is less about this, but more on being so grateful even though illl never know the why on this side of Earth, of just how much God loves me - a complete and utter sinner with weaknesses all over the place. But He does love each of us in our sin. The Creator of the Universe cares about me - a small creature. That I could marvel at all day and in end just say thank you. Not sure if this is celebrated around world, but here in US this 4th Sunday of Easter is traditionally called Good Shepherd Sunday. The Gospel says Jesus is THE good shepherd which means there are bad showered too. My contemplating is how do I make sure I listen to his voice. Peace
Our Lady is very gentle and Medjugorje is like no place I have ever been on earth. You are wise to point this out. The graces that flow from the five stones are incredible. I once heard someone call Our Lady's messages in Medjugorje a kind of Catechism. I think it is a highly under rated statement. I understand what you are saying Padraig. I was merely pointing out how it was these leaders who were promoting at this time contemplative prayer. I am not a devotee to any of them. That being said I did find some of their books useful, such as new seeds of contemplation by Merton. I found it provided a unique and timely perspective on many things we are facing in the world currently. When I found something in their teachings that did not accord with the catechism I simply dismissed those parts. I do read the teachings of the saints you mentioned as well. Ultimately the most useful teachings I have found have been in the admonitions of St. Francis, which continually surprise me and the Cloud of Unknowing. They open up the Gospels in incredible ways. I am not implying anyone should follow any of these leaders, but I also do not dismiss their works entirely either. When in doubt follow the catechism. Personally I appreciate the inter religious dialogue that Merton had done. I am not sure that he was getting into transcendental meditation, but IIRC he was focused on achieving some sort of state of compassion certain Buddhist sects speak of. It's not horrible, but it isn't Catholic either. I also try not to judge because everyone has their life journeys. There is this great quote from Lenin on his death bed where he said “To save our Russia, what we needed . . . was ten Francises of Assisi.”. While the contemplative leaders I mentioned earlier did promote contemplative prayer. I often noticed that there was a mix of politics in their books. From my point of view, politics only become necessary only when faith dies out. They never actually solve anything.
When a well is poisoned it is best to leave it alone, there is no such thing as partly poisoned, why take the risk?
In relation to Mr Thomas Merton, he had a teaching that within each human being there is an empty point untouched by sin and that this point represents the pure glory of God; This reminds me a lot of the Gnostic doctrine that separates spirit and body into two fields, good and evil respectively. I feel I must warn all our brothers and sisters on the forum who love contemplative prayer about this.
"At the center of our being is a point of nothingness which is untouched by sin and by illusion, a point of pure truth, a point or spark which belongs entirely to God, which is never at our disposal, from which God disposes of our lives, which is inaccessible to the fantasies of our own mind or the brutalities of our own will. This little point of nothingness and of absolute poverty is the pure glory of God in us. It is so to speak His name written in us, as our poverty, as our indigence, as our dependence, as our sonship. It is like a pure diamond, blazing with the invisible light of heaven. It is in everybody, and if we could see it we would see these billions of points of light coming together in the face and blaze of a sun that would make all the darkness and cruelty of life vanish completely ... I have no program for this seeing. It is only given. But the gate of heaven is every- where." Thomas Merton, Conjectures of a Guilty Bystander
I don't see any problems with this, I don't really see it as Gnostic. Maybe I am confused. It kind of reminds me of the interior castle to be honest.
Well, Catholic teaching is that grace is removed from our souls when we commit a mortal sin. So I disagree that we have a point of nothingness at the center of our being which is untouched by sin. We are created in the image and likeness of God.
Absolutely, we are most definitely created in the image and likeness of God. And when we sin, especially mortally we are wounded. But I don't get the impression that Merton was trying to be edgy with some sort of new teaching with what he is saying. It is more like below the surface of everything there is this part of us that remains connected to God. I remember Mother Theresa saying she always saw the other when suffering as "Jesus in his most distressing disguise". Jesus always takes the lowest form, many saints who imitated Christ often called themselves nothing. It is my impression that this was more of what Merton was getting at.
The divine spark is a term used in various different religious traditions. Gnosticism In Gnosticism, the divine spark is the portion of God that resides within each human being.[1] The purpose of life is to enable the Divine Spark to be released from its captivity in matter and reestablish its connection with, or simply return to, God, who is perceived as being the source of the Divine Light. In the Gnostic Christian tradition, Christ is seen as a wholly divine being which has taken human form in order to lead humanity back to the Light.[2] The Cathars of medieval Europe also shared the belief in the divine spark.[3] They saw this idea expressed most powerfully in the opening words of the Gospel of St John. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_spark
One of my main difficulties (and there are many)would be the Heresy of Religious Indifferentism. http://catholicharboroffaithandmorals.com/The Heresy of Indifferentism.html https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/can-you-trust-thomas-merton You wrote, 'I don't see it as poisoned but rather misdirected in some areas. No one is perfect save Christ.' To carry this to its logical conclusion; then Martin Luther too was misdirected and Judas gets an out because, as you wrote, 'No one is perfect'. It is true no one is perfect but this does not excuse false, heretical teachings to millions of poor people.
I would also be concerned with an affair he had as a monk and with a girl who was 30 years younger: https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/...is-young-lover-and-mysterious-death-1.2422818 'More significantly, Bamberger has recently revealed that Abbot James asked him to engage Merton about an affair he was having with a young nurse. This came about when Merton, then 53, was recuperating from a debilitating back pain in a Louisville hospital. He fell in love with 19-year-old Margie Smith. It was a situation which was obviously provoking an acute inner crisis in Merton who was perceived to be in a mid-life fling with a young woman. On Saturday, June 11th, 1966 Merton, by now back at Gethsemani, arranged to “borrow” the Louisville office of his psychologist, Dr James Wygal, to meet Margie, where they drank a bottle of champagne and became intimate. This was reported to Fox by the brother who had driven Merton to Louisville. On Monday evening of June 13th, Merton was horrified to learn that James knew of his guilty secret. Merton feared a telephone conversation with Margie from the monastery on Sunday morning of June 12th would be “the worst!!”.
You may think I am being harsh but if I discovered that St Teresa of Avila had had an affair as a nun after writing as she did I would never read a page of her works again. I would not trust a word of any of it.
These are false equivalencies. First none of the authors I mentioned sold Jesus out for 30 pieces of silver. Second none of the authors I mentioned caused a schism in the Church. As for the heretical teachings they gave/give, I do believe there are consequences for this. At the same time, how far this goes I have no idea. For example, there are sins of omission for a lot of stuff given to us by the Lord that people aren't publishing. I don't believe anyone lives according to God's word perfectly, and as your signature says "at the end of the day we shall be judged on love". I also question how many of the failings of those who publish heresies are a result of our failures to pray for our priests. So in that sense we are all guilty. I also try to forgive and love as much as possible, because "for if you will forgive men their offences, your heavenly Father will forgive you also your offences. But if you will not forgive men, neither will your Father forgive you your offences.". I knew about this before, but we also are human and are not perfect. In fact most saints started out as sinners. St. Dismas, St. Augustine, St. Francis etc. The difference being that Merton broke his vow of chastity during his vocation. I can't understand what he was going through spiritually or psychologically at the time of his affair, so I don't write him off. Trials and challenges come for everyone, especially religious. What impresses me is that he got back up and chose his Vocation. I like you Padraig, you keep me on my toes!
