Sign after sign after sign...

criticism in Lefeb publications, that's what you meant I believe? or No?

 

http://motheofgod.com/threads/sign-after-sign-after-sign.6412/page-117#post-117291

 

Mac, I guess the Pope in your eyes should not work for Unity of Christs believers... didn't Jesus say...

9 I am praying for them; I am not praying for the world but for those whom thou hast given me, for they are thine; 10 all mine are thine, and thine are mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 And now I am no more in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name, which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.

and...
17 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. 18 As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.
20 “I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Following your thought Mac, you would believe Jesus to be angery with Pope Francis ! No ?

How do we become ONE as Jesus prayed without talking/ dialogue/ eccuminism....whatever fancy word becomes the label...

 

i am saddened by all this nonsense.

I think Brian needs to see the big picture.

Does anyone really think GOD cares if the Pope washes feet of women, criminals, homosexuals or transgenders. It is exactly what Jesus would do.

As for the Lutherans... he wasn't even at the mass. The same nonsense happens everyday at every church in the world. How many sinful people go to mass? How many people really shouldn't be taking communion.? Starting with some of us in this forum.

As for the Pope getting rid of all the bad priests...why didn't Jesus get rid of Judus. Or better yet, why didn't he git rid of Peter when he denied Him.

Maybe all this Pope Bashing is good conversation but Brian you might as well go with the Pius the 10 crew because there is nothing the Pope will do to make you happy.

We are all called to be SAINTS...not Pope bashers.

Brother Al

 

See Cardinal Burke's comments. You defend the indefensible and you do evil in attacking those defending the Faith.

 

The whole question of Catholic-Lutheran relations needs to be discerned very carefully. On one hand, the Joint Catholic-Lutheran Declaration on Justification in 1999 (subsequently also approved by the Methodist Church) - over which the Lutherans almost tore themselves apart - was an absolute breakthrough document in the history of ecumenism. This was made clear by Pope Francis's friend Tony Palmer in his famous (and I believe prophetic) presentation to the Kenneth Copeland leadership conference back in 2014 when, appealing to the 1999 Joint Declaration, he challenged his Protestant audience with the question: 'Luther's protest is over - is yours?' That Catholics and Protestants - at least some of them - have now found a common vocabulary for the principal issue that sparked the Reformation is little short of miraculous.

However, as far as Lutherans specifically are concerned, the present trajectory of their Church is extremely problematic and paradoxically in some ways throws up more difficulties than, say, Catholic-Pentecostal dialogue (which has been progressing for several decades). This may seem ironic because liturgically the Lutherans are obviously far closer to Catholicism than are Evangelicals, yet basically the churches emerging historically from the 'Magisterial Reform' of the 16th century are the ones which have gone furthest in their compromise with secular humanism - which Evangelicals who emerged from the Great Awakenings of the 18th century have largely been actively resisting. For example, if you look at the recently created French United Protestant Church (an alliance of Lutherans and French Reformed), what you have is an ultra-liberal organization which openly embraces both Unitarians and Freemasons. The Masonic element is particularly upfront within the hierarchy of Scandinavian Lutheranism, which is one reason why the upcoming meeting in Lund in October needs to be watched very carefully. It needs to be kept in mind that the Russian Orthodox Church broke off relations with Swedish Lutherans a few years ago because of their extreme liberalism, which makes this ecumenically even more delicate. There may be opportunity here, but there is also danger to the extent that (as a welter of solid private revelation since Anne-Catherine Emmerich has been telling us for centuries now), the end-time apostasy of the Church will involve a false ecumenism that will keep all the trappings of authentic Christianity but hollow out the core by a rationalistic reduction of sacrament to symbol.

It would seem that Pope Francis is fully aware of this danger inasmuch as he has been recommending Robert Hugh Benson's 1907 novel Lord of the World , in which the enthronement of the Antichrist figure Julian Felsenburgh occurs in a ceremony in Westminster Abbey enacted according to Masonic principles, in which Catholic doctrine is subtly but ruthlessly mimicked and inverted...

The problem is this: within the Lutheran (and Reformed) community there are bound to be people of two types - those genuine ecumenists who are authentically seeking to 'move up' to the full truth of Catholicism (such as Swiss Reformed Pastor Frère Roger of Taizé), and those whose aim is to 'bring down' Catholic truth to a lowest common denominator of shared symbols which in the last analysis are simply a cipher for secular humanism in pseudo-Christian garb. And it needs to be remembered that, since the birth of theological modernism more than a century ago, there have been plenty of 'Catholic' theologians who are only too willing to take the second route.
Because the Enemy is a consummate tactician and the master of rhetorical deception, distinguishing between the true and false ecumenists may be more difficult than we think, and only possible through a commitment to serious, prayerful discernment.

Watch and pray!!

 

Keep posting Brother Al,

I missed your thoughts! You keep us grounded

*** edit... i should have said keep posting on all threads... not just the thorny ones...haha

anyway, good to see you sir

 

Thanks Peter.

Ut Unum Sint (John Paul II).
Christ calls all his disciples to unity. My earnest desire is to renew this call today, to propose it once more with determination, repeating what I said at the Roman Colosseum on Good Friday 1994, at the end of the meditation on the Via Crucis prepared by my Venerable Brother Bartholomew, the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople. There I stated that believers in Christ, united in following in the footsteps of the martyrs, cannot remain divided. If they wish truly and effectively to oppose the world's tendency to reduce to powerlessness the Mystery of Redemption, they must profess together the same truth about the Cross.1 The Cross!

 

Peter,
So you believe Pope Francis is aware of the problem but not guilty of promoting this false ecumenism?

 

Brother Al, thank you for this post. You put into words so eloquently what I never could. All this negativity on the forum distresses me. It reminds me of the pharisees trying to trip up Jesus at every given opportunity. Our Holy Father Pope Francis, I believe is a wonderful Pope. He is showing love to everyone. We as Catholics are not the only ones entitled to love from Jesus, we are all his children. Pope Francis is trying to unite Christians. We all have faults and as Jesus said "Whoever is without sin among you, let him be the first to cast a stone". Can people on this forum not just pray that Our Holy Father is being guided by the Holy Spirit and maybe just maybe is bringing people a little closer to Our Lord. I said it before and I will say it again, I worry about my own worthiness to receive Holy Communion, not others' worthiness. I know people are saying that some of us are not standing up to the faith, but I worry that the devil is maybe turning some people away and causing derision amongst us.

 

Yes, thanks, Peter. I always appreciate your attempts to address these types of serious issues with balanced and thoughtful restraint. While there is certainly room for caution, and even concern, in the recent events that have created the latest uproar on the forum, we need not act as though all is lost.

My suggestion for those who consistently find themselves in a tizzy over our Holy Father's reported statements and actions: each time you feel the need to post something negative about the Holy Father, force yourself to balance it by finding and posting something positive. At a minimum, such an exercise might help us all keep our perspective.

So, for example, to counterbalance this most recent spate of concern regarding the Lutheran question, take a look at the Holy Father's recent Annual Address to the Roman Rota, where he eloquently defended the family and marriage. You can check out some excerpts here: http://visnews-en.blogspot.com/2016/01/to-tribunal-of-roman-rota-adequate.html

Jesus, I trust in You. Peace.

 

I am all for unity, unity centered on truth. As I mentioned on another thread, I have spent over 30 years in a liberal Catholic church. I know what it does and can do. The most obvious fruits of liberalism is it divides. It alienates traditionally faithful Catholics from teaching roles (RCIA or faith formation), it moves its agenda to 'loosen' church rubrics and laws to mere academic exercises and will modify, change or alter church liturgies for sensationalism, which demands applause for any reason that seems appropriate throughout the mass. One of the more frustrating moments in church is when the Bishop comes to administer the sacrament of confirmation, to an overwhelming amount of youth who rarely go to church and with the exception of a few, you won't see them in church after the Bishop appeals to the congregation "do you all attest that these candidates have been well prepared to receive the sacrament of confirmation" to which they all say "we do". It is all fluff and show. A feel good for many unpracticing parents and children.

Most all are going through the motions for show. This is what bothers me about some of the articles, displays (the infamous Christmas lighting display at the Vatican), the reception of the true body and blood of Christ by a group of Lutheran's who just had an audience with the Holy Father and now the attendance of our Holy Father to the celebration of 500 years of the Reformers. Is this true ecumenism? Is this what our Lord did?

Yes, Jesus went into the homes of sinners, dined with tax collectors and showed love to adulterers. The thing he also did that I am not seeing Pope Francis doing is to welcoming them back into the fold through repentance. We seem most willing to bend over backwards to appease them. Will he challenge and welcome them to enter back into the one true Church? Or will he make them feel comfortable in various man made churches, as if to say they are in full communion with the Church that Jesus Christ instituted, as if all churches are equal?

To bottom line, nearly all Catholic churches world wide are loosing parishioners. The youth are nearly invisible. They see through the feel good homilies that bring no challenge to the souls in the pew. The apathy within our parishes is so poor, apparently we have to go to other denominations events to try to get them to like us. The question is, are we moving them or are they moving us. There is only one truth.

 

Does anyone really think GOD cares if the Pope washes feet of women, criminals, homosexuals or transgenders. It is exactly what Jesus would do. Jesus did not do this. He washed only the feet of men and the Church has always understood this to indicate the all male priesthood that he instituted that Holy Thursday night.

As for the Lutherans... he wasn't even at the mass. The same nonsense happens everyday at every church in the world. How many sinful people go to mass? How many people really shouldn't be taking communion.? Starting with some of us in this forum. No he wasn't at the Mass, but it happened in his own house. It demands an explanation from the Vicar of Christ, lest so many others will accept this a norm and do the same.

As for the Pope getting rid of all the bad priests...why didn't Jesus get rid of Judus. Or better yet, why didn't he git rid of Peter when he denied Him. He should not get rid of priests, but surely he should admonish them for doing something so wrong and against church teaching. "Judas will you betray your master with a kiss"? He admonished Judas for what he did wrong.

We are all called to be SAINTS...not Pope bashers. I am far from a Pope basher and pray for him daily, but one can't help but wonder where he is going with all this appeasing and whether it is bringing anyone into the faith by doing so. Confusion does not come from God.

 

wow... get brians phone # F, Its all Francis fault. You complain of a Parish you chose to stay in? So you view the State of the Church thru your local lense. My local Church I stopped going to with the new Fr Funny. Down the street in either direction I get SOLID Catholic teaching, pro Pope, Sacraments, prayer...reading the Lives of the Saints.

How can you speak of the world at Large, Africa is on Fire for the Faith, back in te 90's I helped update an old catechism from India with refs to the New CCC that's very popular in Africa... maybe check your sources. Asia is blooming as well?

The First shall be last and the Last shall be First

 

First the full quote from , Well its from Our Lady to Sr Lucia really..."I am worried by the Blessed Virgin's messages to Lucy of Fatima. This persistence of Mary about the dangers which menace the Church is a divine warning against the suicide of altering the Faith, in her liturgy, her theology and her soul. ...
"I hear all around me innovators who wish to dismantle the Sacred Chapel, destroy the universal flame of the Church, reject her ornaments and make her feel remorse for her historical past.
"A day will come when the civilized world will deny its God, when the Church will doubt as Peter doubted. She will be tempted to believe that man has become God. In our churches, Christians will search in vain for the red lamp where God awaits them, like Mary Magdalene weeping before the empty tomb, they will ask, "Where have they taken Him?

 

Link to this quote... ?
The website, the newslink... something?

 

this from Spirit Daily.....Michael Brown:

http://www.spiritdaily.com/lutherpope.htm

 

What does washing of feet have to do with all male priesthood. The act of washing feet was a act of humility...nothing more, nothing less. It showed that the church leaders were chosen for service not to be served.

Demands an explanation from the Vicar of Christ. Not how church works. Demanding is something the "created one" would ask for. It is really a cannon law issue between the priest that provided the Holy Eucharist and the Bishop/Monsignor in charge of priests actions or inaction's. In most Archdiocese ...they are called Vicar of Clergy.

As for admonishing priests...Our Holy Father has spoken very strongly to his clergy including directly to the curia. You should really start reading his homilies...you will see Pope Francis is a very traditional man who has no problem admonishing his clergy.

Yes, confusion doesn't come from God...but from forums like this. Its a little sad that this is probably one of the most catholic spiritual forums and we still cause doubt and discord from our postings.

I will be the first to protect the faith but as of NOW (and hopefully forever)... Our Holy Father has been faithful to his Petrine Ministry.

 

http://bellarmineforum.org/2013/06/21/did-cardinal-pacelli-pius-xii-really-say-this/

 

Could a type of communism be taking place in the united states.