I think we actually have already gone around on this issue before. Maybe you're right, maybe I'm right, but at this point does it really matter if a resigned pope retains that title or not? I just feel like we're two ensigns in the command cupola of the Titanic arguing about whether the navigational compass is accurate or not while the ship is sinking.
Those are people who have died for social justice in South America. Not dying for the faith, but social justice issues. Secular martyrs if you will.
Saw a programme on the Titanic last night (and I watch hardly any tv), which claimed the ship would not have sunk if it had sailed straight into the ice-berg. If we'd been in the positions you outlined, we might have saved her! On that note, goodnight!
Can't answer your question, but I'm glad mine isn't there. Ah, just saw Praetorian's post. That certainly explains it. The new communism. Late in Ireland. Goodnight.
lol at this point I feel like jumping into the ice-cold water. I think I am just battle fatigued today.
Don't anyone get excited. This is an old article, but I thought it would be important to link here. Apparently the meaning of the word "finality" has changed in the last 3 years. Pope Francis confirms finality of ban on ordaining women priests https://www.ncronline.org/news/vatican/pope-francis-confirms-finality-ban-ordaining-women
Okay, I don't have the energy to do all of the researching right now, but the question is kicking around in my mind right now, so here goes. The reasons a pope who abdicates does not retain the title while he is living are several. 1. The office of Pope is an office, it is not sacramental. So it creates no indelible mark on the soul. A priest is always a priest, but a pope is not always a pope. A priest can stop performing the sacraments, but he remains a priest even if defrocked. If a pope resigns he loses all of the powers and special Graces that belong to the papacy. He is no longer is any sense wielding the powers of the office of pope. 2. No other pope who resigned kept that title. There have been several in Church history who have left the papacy and not one retained a papal title. Certainly there was no Pope Emeritus title which is a novelty Benedict created. 3. The closest thing we have to compare it to is kingship. The pope, after all, is a king. If a king abdicates he no longer retains the title of king. It is an office. If he is no longer in the office he no longer can lay claim to the title. Now after the king dies, we remember him in history and eternity as King George or King Edward, but if he abdicates then while he lives he does not retain the title. Why does a king not retain the title after abdication? Because it creates confusion. It is dangerous in both a temporal (and in the case of a pope) a spiritual sense. If problems arise people may look back to the former king as a potential solution. I think we can see that happening now. That is one reason why kings and popes have often had the former occupant of the office jailed or killed so as to remove that possibility. If Pope Francis had turned out to be super orthodox no one would be looking back at Benedict at all right now, except to wish him well. That is all the energy I have to put into it now, but I think it suffices to make a basic case.
I'm guessing none of them kept on giving Papal Blessings, or wearing the papal white or continued living in the Vatican
We might be slightly at cross-purposes. I am not inferring that Benedict is Pope in any sense of being part of the papal office. But, that he is still a Pope. A Pope Emeritus, but still a Pope. I looked up an article on Pius X in Crisis magazine which continues to refer to him as Pope Saint Pius X and of course we have the PSPX movement. I don't see why if a pope is Pope after his death, he does not retain the title (but not the office) when still alive. I don't know what it means, but at present it seems to me we have a living valid Pope out of office and a living, valid Pope in office who might be a heretic or even an apostate. It is absolutely unprecedented, but it is all part of God's plan, but I don't have a clue how it is meant to be taken. The whole situation does resemble being on the Titanic with a big iceberg looming, God help us.
Indeed it does! We don't know what is heading our way, but it certainly doesn't look good. Two living popes will remain a mystery until God reveals the meaning.
1 2 MARY MAMA AT THE CLOSING MASS OF AMAZONIAN SYNOD I’m surprised that no one else has commented on the large and beautiful image of the Blessed Virgin Mary that appeared in St Peter’s for the closing Mass of the Amazonian synod. It is pictured here in front of the left front pillar of the baldacchino. This statue is not usually there. In fact, curiously, I’m not aware of any major image of the Blessed Mother featured prominently in St Peter’s. For that matter, in many of the Roman churches you don’t see a prominent Mary statue. I’d be interested to study this fact further. I’ll bet my friend Elizabeth Lev can shed some light on this. Either way, the image that appeared on Sunday is worth commenting on. Why did this wonderful image of the Blessed Mother make such a prominent appearance? I suspect it was an obvious and proper correction to all the Pachamama fuss. Whoever was responsible did the right thing. The indigenous image–whatever it was (and this is still disputed as per my article here.) was subjugated to the proper Catholic iconography. It’s Mary Mama, not Pachamama. And that’s okay, and the Blessed Virgin does in fact supplant all pagan mother goddesses. As I commented in this post –which you really ought to read– Interestingly, the Christian myth also tells the story of a great Mother. That Mother of All Things is called Eve. Did you know that was the meaning of her name? Eve is not the serpent, but she is tempted by the serpent. Because he and his cohort were cast down from heaven to earth, the earth became the realm of the fallen angel Lucifer, Satan, the Father of Lies. The “energies” of the earth became hostage to Satan and his demons. Earth became “the silent planet” cut off from the rest of God’s cosmos and alienated from the creator. This fallen spirit tempted the Mother of All Things Eve to disobey her creator and join Satan and his demons in disobedience and become a true inhabitant and child of the silent planet. She yielded to the Dragon’s Lure and thus she and her children all became hostages to the Dragon. Mary is the “New Eve” and just as Eve was “Mother of All” so the Blessed Virgin becomes, by God’s grace, the Mediator of All Grace under the new covenant. More theological study needs to be done on this matter, but I believe the Blessed Virgin by virtue of her being a created being, but transformed by her unique relationship with God because she was theotokos the God bearer–institutes a new relationship between God and the created order. To put it differently, because of God’s relationship with Mary in the incarnation, she is the key factor in the redemption of the physical aspect of creation. The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is the assumption of the physical realm into heaven. I realize what I have written is speculative, and I’m happy for any real Marian expert and proper theologian to correct me, but I write this because of my first (and continued) experience in praying the rosary. As I began to pray the rosary for the first time while on a walk in the woods at Quarr Abbey, it was as if a new dimension of the created order was opening up to my vision. It is very difficult to explain, but others have told me they have experienced the same thing–as if the woods, the trees, the birds, air and sky were more real, clearer and crisper in my apprehension or their reality. I felt I was on the threshold of Narnia. One can’t dogmatize based on subjective prayer experiences. I realize that. But nevertheless, I have always felt there was more to it, and certainly that there is nothing wrong with seeing the Blessed Virgin as Mother of All, and that, therefore, all the Mother Goddesses of all the pagan religions of the world are mere foretastes and foreshadowings of she who would become the great Virgin Mother. This also illuminates the proper relationship between paganism and Christianity. I have written extensively about this, and it is the theme of my book The Romance of Religion. (Check out this long article on the subject too.) Paganism is fulfilled by the Christian faith in the same way that the Hebrew religion is completed and fulfilled by Christ. This is not to say that the Hebrew religion is just another pagan religion on a par with the rest of them. No. It is unique in the ancient world because the myths are lived out by real people in history. God reveals himself to the Jews in a unique way which foreshadows the incarnation in a unique and powerful way. So, thank the Lord that the beautiful image of the Blessed Virgin Mary was so present in the closing Mass of the Amazonian Synod. Here is a final image of the Holy Father leading proper veneration to her. https://dwightlongenecker.com/mary-mama-at-the-closing-mass-of-amazonian-synod/ October 28th, 2019|Categories: Blog|0 Comments
Something that I have noticed about those who wind up leaving or hating the Church. They focus *way* too much on the Pope. Look at hateful Protestant polemics. Or some of the rude, uncharitable statements made by the Eastern Orthodox. They can not see Catholics as Christians, as humans, or as brothers and sisters. They can not see the Pope as a fellow Christian, like Saint Peter, who is weak, and needs prayers. It's something that I keep noticing over and over. And how often has this negative, critical, bitter obsession with the Pope helped anyone become more Christ-like? Just asking. It's weird. And it leads souls to Hell. Not so much because they are genuinely misinformed about the Church or because of disagreement with Her for innocent reasons, but because of hatred and pride.
Today is the feast of St Jude Thaddeus Prayers and petitions to him for our Beloved Church and for ourselves to persevere and remain steadfast. Amen
With respect to good Father Longenecker's article: Unfortunately, and for a multitude of reasons, all trust is gone and it is difficult to take a benign view of anything now. This may be a genuine devotion to a wonderful statue of Our Lady and her Son, but it might also be a cynical attempt to reverse the damage, having realised they have gone too far. There are twenty-eight pages here so far, in a very short space of time, of shocked, scandalised, deeply disturbed and bewildered posts by a wide cross section of genuine Catholics. To me, anyway, it has been an awful few days and I woke up today feeling anxious and irritable. I'm sure there are many others who would feel the same and there are many who have had recent physical ailments very possibly induced by the spiritual confusion and paranoia that is all-prevailing. This same reaction is very likely being felt by millions of the faithful throughout the world. I don't wish to imagine the effects it might have had on some souls. Apostasy, heresy or schism might well have been visited on some as a consequence of what has been happening. And this applies even if we take the most benevolent interpretation possible from recent events. Something which is frankly (there's a bad pun there) wildly optimistic.
imho it has always been “too little, too late” with this Papacy.....just as you have so aptly explained.
Yes, and how many people like, the papolatrous Austen Ivereigh are going to say it's "Our [Anti]Lady of the Amazon?" Still a statue of Our True Mother present at the closing Mass is better than no statue at all; we should hope and pray that She has some positive effect somewhere, no matter how overwhelming this chastisemal cataclysm is. Hail Mary, Our True Mother!
Praise be to God for this, my prayer that the Mother of God be enthroned during this synod has been heard. My faith is increased, my heart is lifted. When I quoted Pope Francis previously it was apparent to me that he is aware the common people insist on Mary as our Queen. He took action. Our mother understands everything and she has asked for our help. We are such little children but our prayers are so enormous. These forums are filled with souls armed with grace. Let’s raise our rightful arms and pray as she has begged us. I’m going to include one last message from her, because it is SO motherly in tone. Praise God for the support I have received here in consecrating my life to the Mother of God. There were so many obstacles to overcome and here I received encouragement. I am hers and this life is worth living in faith, hope and charity. Take heart brothers and sisters because her Immaculate Heart Triumphs! 11-8-18 message of Our Lady of Zaro to Simona “This evening Mother appeared dressed all in white. Even the mantle enveloping her was white, almost transparent, like a veil studded with glitter. The same mantle also covered her head. Mother had a queen's crown on her head, her arms were open in a sign of welcome. In her right hand was a long white holy rosary of light, which went almost down to her feet. On her chest Mother had a heart of flesh crowned with thorns. Her feet were bare and rested on the world. May Jesus Christ be praised "Dear children, thank you that this evening you have again responded to this call of mine, hastening into my blessed woods. My children, I love you, I love you immensely ... if only you knew how much I love you, you would do more to not make me suffer. Instead many of you wound my heart with your behavior. Dearly beloved children, once again I come to you to ask you for prayer, prayer for my beloved Church, prayer for my favored sons who so many times alienate others from the truth and from the true magisterium of the Church with their behavior. My children, judgment belongs to God alone, but I understand full well, as a mother, that on seeing such behavior you feel lost and lose the right way. I ask you to listen to me: pray for them and do not judge, pray for their fragility and for all that makes you suffer, pray that they would find their way back and make the face of my Jesus shine again on their faces. My children, also pray much for your local church, pray for your Bishop and your pastors, pray and be silent. Bend your knees and listen to the voice of God. Leave judgment to others: do not take on tasks that are not yours. My children, this evening I also come to tell you with much sorrow that the earth will yet tremble. Central Italy in particular. With this I do not want to scare you; I am near you and I will always protect you. I am your mother; do not fear evil - I will console you andwill be beside you whenever you invoke me. I will dry your every tear and satisfy your hunger and thirst both material and spiritual. I do not abandon my children, trust me." Then Mother prayed for a long time over those present and finally blessed everyone. In the name of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
We can't on the one hand defend Church Teachings because they have been undercut by Pope Francis. Then undercut them ourselves by standing in Final Judgement of a Roman Pontiff. The Teachings of the Church are clear on this and held in stone by Canon Law. Only God can Judge a Pope. He is the Vicar of Christ. The only Higher Authority is God Himself. I am relaxed about this. It's God's Church . He is knows what He is doing. If he wants to do a bye bye on Pope Francis He can do it any time He likes. He doesn't need or ask any help on this from us. If God wants Him gone he'll be gone. If He doesn't want Him gone he'll not be gone. There's no good getting hysterical about all this. God is up there. He knows what He's doing. Either we trust God in this or we don't. He's the Vicar of Christ. We ain't.
Bishops Threatened To Boycott Pachamama Closing Mass: Did Francis Fool Them? https://www.gloria.tv/post/86DGxNdL3j8NAZb6R6C9JKdLQ
