Garabandal Objections

What is your agenda? Trying to bully people off the board who disagree with you? Can't you handle any information or arguments from the other side? Only people who believe in Garabandal should post? I have no agenda, only an opinion based on the facts and observations.

 

With all due respect Picadillo how could your faith have been harmed by Father Gobbi?

If the Church condemned Garabandal tomorrow it would not in the least way affect my faith. Not one dot ...

 

Thanks. Many people are so inordinately attached to this private revelation that anything contrary to what they believe cannot be tolerated or even considered. I'm using reason and logic, based on the facts and my observations as well as Church teaching and history on these matters. Sorry you were misled by Gobbi, I was interested in the false locutions, also. There are so many false mystics and apparitions which end up harming the faith of many who get too attached. That's why I have been urging caution and pointing out the problems with this alleged apparition.

 

Glad to see your faith is ironclad, but many people get overly attached to a private revelation and end up centering their spiritual life and faith around it. Many who may not have formerly been practicing their faith or never believed in God or the Church may have come to have "faith" because of the private revelation they heard about. When the apparition is shown to be false, the person's faith has little or nothing to lean on and they become disillusioned, depressed or question their faith. I'm not saying that's what happened to Picadillo, but I have observed it in others.

 

You have a vivid imagination. I have not been 'trying to bully you' but I am curious. You have come on this forum posted 14 or 15 times giving your opinion on Garabanal, which you have a right to do. But you have contributed nothing anywhere else.

I really look forward to your contributions to some of the other threads.

And by the way Steve D and Mac are not Garabandal supporters and they post regularly on the other threads. We disagree sometimes but I have come to respect them both as valuable members of this forum and respect them both.

 

You need to read more of the thread or else you are reading it selectively. The arguments and proof has been provided ad nauseum, you are just discounting it, because you are locked in to your attachment to the alleged apparitions.

 

You know - there is an old maxim that fits this thread. We will just have to agree to disagree.

 

uote="Glenn, post: 59083, member: 1364"]PADRE PIO SEES THE MIRACLE BEFORE HIS DEATH & CONCHITA IS GIVEN GIFTS BY HIM.
When Conchita found out Padre Pio died in Sept. 1968, she met his close friend, Father Bernardino Cennamo, at Lourdes, and asked him, "How is it that Our Lady told me Padre Pio would see the Miracle and he has died?" Father Cenammo responded, "Padre Pio saw the Miracle before he died. He told me himself."The priest gave Conchita one of the three veils that covered Padre Pio's face during his wake, saying that the stigmatist had requested this before he died. He told her truthfully that he personally did not believe in the authenticity of Garabandal until Padre Pio requested this of him. Conchita also was given Padre Pio's rosary, and one of the gloves he wore, stained by his stigmata. She has these treasures preserved at her home in New York.

Lets not take the word of priests who were friends and lived with Padre Pio, lets believe Mike because ....why ?[/quote]


Who was the witness to this conversation? What is the origin of this story? Where did the writer of the story get their information? Did Conchita tell this to you or anyone else? Did Father Cennamo put this in writing or proclaim this in public himself? Why wouldn't he? Please tell me how the conversation between Conchita and the priest was transmitted to the writer of this story. This is essential if it is to have any credibility at all. Anyone can make up a story or pass on a rumor they may have heard. Regarding your insult to me, I'm not asking people to "believe" me, as if I may be lying about something. I'm putting forth questions and arguments which question the authenticity of this private revelation.

 

How do you know I haven't posted elsewhere? Why should I have to post on other threads? What difference does that make? Where else should I post? I haven't been seeking out multiple places to post. I'm normally pretty busy. I happened to find this one when I Googled for information about Garabandal, I liked Steve's topic and started reading, then posted. I originally intended to post once and leave it at that, but the responses got me wanting to defend my positions. I did make a comment on another Garabandal article I read, but that's about it. I have commented on other boards about other Catholic topics in the past, but it's been a while.

 

Again, what is the origin of the story? How can it be verified? Did someone interview Bouflet? Did Bouflet state this publicly? Why should we believe him? Because he has a PhD? Much of your "evidence" is hearsay or alleged quotes that can never be verified.

 

Trying to intimidate people who disagree with you is not Christian. I wasn't talking about everybody on the board. I have a right to my opinion just as much as you. You just can't seem to deal with any opposition. I posted here once and got many responses which I am responding to. I don't regularly post on message boards and don't have time to. Your paranoid assertion that I have an agenda is absurd. I have an opinion, obviously contrary to yours, that you can't deal with, so you try to taunt and bully me off the board. What is your agenda?

 

I am quoting from a book recommended by Joe Lomangino, I didn't write 'an aged religious', the author did! I should be as curious as you to know who it was because they are almost certainly died many years ago and it would be interesting to know how old they would have been today (perhaps you could enquire as Conchita should be able to recall the incident?). But it doesn't matter who it is anyway, the facts do not add up whoever it was (you can confirm the quote from the book - The Star on the Mountain). As to my neighbour, she lives two doors away and her name is Julie, I will ask her about this matter again and see if she might sign up to the forum and confirm her story direct to you.

Star on the Mountain, page 48 "....letter (from Conchita written in 1965) written to a prominent old religious person from Spain whose health was much impaired, Conchita wrote - 'Take good care of yourself, you must live for the miracle'. To someone who must now be at least 109 years old! Perhaps the author made it up in which case why did Joey say that this was a reliable account of events?

 

Wow this thread is really contentious especially during Holy Week! In the spirit of Holy Week we should be praying more and talking less. Can't we just agree that we don't agree on everything and leave it at that. Apparitions are not necessary for salvation. The ones who believe will continue and the ones who don't won't. This forum is so full of wonderful souls and I hate to see the evil one tainting and causing this disagreement between members.

God Bless!

 

I am really looking forward to the day Joey Lomangino reads this thread on Garabandal Objections

 

A man healed by Padre Pio, and given Saint Pio's assurance of Garabandal , would never waist his time here.

 

I wouldn't waist a second of Conchita's time asking her anything here, because no matter what is presented to you , you flatly deny it . If you can discredit Saint Padre Pio, you certainly will not believe anything anyone else will say. Good luck when the Warning comes, I can't wait to hear your arguments after insulting Jesus's Mother calling her apparitions "demonic and false".

As I always say : "For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not believe, no explanation is will suffice."

 

A word of caution. This thread is becoming ugly and the name calling and insults stop now ! As an Admin here, we encourage opinions, not agenda driven insults to prove a point. Remember we are ALL GUESTS ON PADRAIG'S FORUM, its a privilege, NOT a God given right.

 

Once again, you are confusing faith with belief in a private revelation. I take great offense to your insults, implying that if a person doesn't believe in the unapproved apparitions of Garabandal, they must have a weak faith and must not love the Blessed Mother. You also imply that something horrible will happen to those who not believe in the apparitions. A person with the greatest faith can realize that a particular private revelation is likely not authentic. It has absolutely no bearing on the faith or holiness of the person making that decision and the Church puts no obligation on the faithful to even believe private revelations it has deemed worthy of belief. It's extremely dangerous to claim that you have utter certitude about a private revelation and it does not represent your cause well to insult people who do not agree with you.

 

I never implied you had a weak faith, or insulted you. Im talking about logical reason. If as Catholics we recognized Saint Pio as one of the undisputable greatest saints with spiritual gifts and wisdom hardly ever seen, how do you logically doubt him ? I trust Pio, plain & simple, I didn't need faith to enter my decision on whether I believe him or not.

 

If you read the life of Padre Pio, which I have done extensively, you will realize he was very human, and made errors of judgment and even had faults. This makes him even more relatable and attractive to me. I very much would trust him as a person, but that doesn't mean he is always impeccable when making human judgments. As I have said before, saints have made plenty of mistakes in discerning the spiritual life and certainly in human affairs. They are saints because of their love of God and heroic virtue, not because of their discernment of private revelations. We just don't know how much information he may have had to base his judgment upon. I use my reason, logic and experience to make a decision and I take Padre Pio's relationship with Conchita under consideration, but it is not enough to convince me of the authenticity of the apparitions because of all the other problems associated with it. I have always liked Conchita and thought she was beautiful and seemed like a very nice, humble person. I have always said that I don't believe this is a hoax perpetrated by the visionaries. I think I've said about all I want to say on this subject. Best wishes.