Garabandal Objections

FR. LUIS ANDREU'S BODY INCORRUPT ?

The question was presented, if they already dug up Fr. Luis Andreu’s body and it was decaying, does this negate the prophecy about he being found incorrupt ?

Digging up Fr. Luis Andreu's body in NO WAY invalidates the prediction, why ? Conchita, in a letter dated August 2, 1964, wrote this to Father Ramon Andreu (his brother) “On July 18 (1964), I had a locution in which I was told that on the day after the miracle your brother (Fr. Luis Andreu) would be removed from his grave and his body would be intact.” SO infact , the Blessed Mother said it would be " THE DAY AFTER THE MIRACLE ", NOT BEFORE ! The prophecy is still valid until then.

Consider this too, now that we know his body decayed, how much more of a greater miracle will it be when he is found incorrupt the day after the Miracle ?

 

#4-7 are internet rumors which have no documentation at all. Show me something other than what some blog theories. Got any books, magazine or newspaper articles to back up any of this ?

 

Mike G said: "Fatima was approved before all the prophecies regarding the conversion of Russia and Triumph of the Immaculate Heart". Fatima was approved, not because of unfulfilled prophecy yet to take place, but because it was the greatest miracle of all time and the only miracle to be preannounced to take place 3 months in advance to happen at a particular time, day and place. Garabandal's Warning and Miracle forthcoming with supersede even Fatima's great miracle, because next to the cross ad resurrection it will be God's great grace ever. The greatest act of his mercy via the Warning and his greatest public miracle in skies above the pines in Garabandal for the whole world to see with its permanent sign. Our Lady of Garabandal pray for us.

 

No kidding ,lol. You can't even find his name , YET you try to use this to discredit the apparitions. That's slanderous.

 

Conchita & Jesus comment on belief of Garabandal


Conchita: “ I would also like to say about Rome that there are people there who want to put too much pressure on the Church.
I believe that it is better to leave it as it is, and to do what they can. They should try to speak about the Virgin’s Message,
but the rest they should leave in God’s hands.”

The Lord Himself said to me: “Don’t worry about whether they believe you or not, especially in Rome. I will do everything. “

This is what I would like to say to all those who want for Rome and the Bishop to move ahead.”




Interview—conversation directed by Monsignor Francisco Garmendia, Auxiliary Bishop of New York on the date of this interview, here in New York on August 27, 1981.

 

I'd like to point out one thing here. As far as the message of Garabandal, it is all in scripture and the teachings of the Church, so there is no error there as you all well know. As far as the two great events, well, those are also in scripture, in many passages. Before I ever heard of Garabandal, I was reading the Bible through, and could see that there was to be a warning to the world shortly before the return of Christ which involved the blood moons, the sun turning to darkness, Christ being raised up on the cross for the whole world to see, and even kings from all ends of the earth would bend at the knee, etc. ect... Then we have St Faustina's diary in the 1930s which talks about the Warning. And since the diary was not available to the public for decades, I highly DOUBT that those young girls or even their parents could have somehow gotten hold of Faustina's diary and stole the message, much less figured out how to fake levitation and other supernatural events thousands of times in front of Doctors, Priests, and scientists! May I ask, what is the problem with this apparition and how could it possibly lead anyone astray? The visionaries are not out there with "new" messages looking for "followers" like the hundreds of false locutions we are finding today. There is a danger of then course of following a person so closely that they then stray from the church and form a cult. The girls did their duty. They warned us. You may not believe, you may even spew hatred toward them, BUT you still have been warned, and when it comes, this memory will pop up in your brain and it wont shock you to the point of death. The girls did their duty, and moved on. They lead holy, exemplary lives from everything we can see.

 

Some clearly feel a great deal more strongly about this than I do. However if anyone feels the need to ‘scream’ to make a point like THIS!!!! , then it is a very strong indicator of a lack of confidence in the point being made and undermines their case since a person who ‘screams’ is likely to employ other exaggerations to make their case and that in itself raises more red flags than those fluttering in North Korea on Mayday.

I have a theory about Garabandal and will share it. Some won’t like it but bear with me in the interests of even-handedness – it’s only a theory.

I am absolutely prepared to believe that the visionaries were sincere and that ‘something’ certainly happened though what happened is in doubt for me and many others.

Conchita said, in the very well produced BBC programme made in the 80’s that she was fearful of announcing the date of the Miracle because, if nothing happened(!) she would look like a fool or a charlatan and if it did happen, then her life would never be her own again. (Please note that she feared that nothing might happen following the announcement).

Now, back in the 60’s according to the book ‘Star on the Mountain’ (which when I bought it in the mid 70’s at a presentation by Joe Lomangino was recommended as an accurate account of events) an interesting event took place. Conchita told an unnamed ‘aged and prominent religious’ to take care of his/her health so that they would be alive to see the Miracle. Now this conversation took place in 1965, I don’t know what ‘aged’ meant exactly to the writer of the book but let’s be very generous and say that it only meant an age of 60. Conchita knew the date of the Miracle and seemed to believe that a person of at least 60 in 1965 (and more probably older) could live to see it happen. That person, if living, would now be 109 years old AT LEAST. Seems odd to hope for a survival to an age that a miniscule number of humans ever reach and, remember that this is the MINIMUM.

So, considering these two points (the fear of announcing the Miracle in case nothing happened on the appointed day and the present (minimum) age of the religious), I suspect that the date may have already passed and was not announced. JUST A THEORY so no need to take this as a personal insult.

 

Steve, in all fairness to those whom you wish to my a valid point, this is the second reference about an "unnamed "person in two arguments. First was a "neighbor" in an earlier post , now, your whole argument is on a unnamed "religious". At best this is vague and unconvincing on any level.

 

While those few here who oppose the apparitions validity, based on two or three items, please answer me this. How do YOU explain :

The documentation of over 2000 appearances of our Blessed Mother .

The video footage of the host appearing out of thin air on Conchita’s tongue with dozens of witnesses standing next to her, as Mary predicted days earlier.

Thousands of photo’s ( and video proof ) of “ecstatic walks” forwards AND BACKWARDS on rocky cow paths, and FALLING BACKWARDS ON THEIR HEADS totally unharmed !

The girls in ecstasy unharmed and unfeeling by doctors poking them with needles, pinching them, burning them with matches, throwing sand in their eyes and shinning bright light trying to make them blink, and could not !

12 year old Girls in ecstasy being able to lift one another over their heads, BUT 2 men could not lift one girl up ?

The Blessed Mother voice was recorded, and a photo taken.

Dozens of rosaries, and religious objects placed on one table, in a pile, and after Mary kissed them, the girls ,WITHOUT LOOKING AT ANYONE , managed to return the item to its rightful owners ?

The public statements of support for the apparitions by notable Catholic leaders like Pope Paul VI, (Saint ) Pope John Paul II,
Saint Padre Pio, Blessed" Mother Teresa, Saint Josemarie Escriva,
Saint Madre Maravillas, Blessed Maria Rafols & Mother Maria Naya, Bishop Joao Venancio , Bishop of Fatima,
Archbishop Manuel Pio López, of Jalapa (Mexico) , Mother Angelica, to name just some. ( so please don't use the "demonic scenario " to explain the ecstatic states, this group would hardly support such nonsense . I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings here, but if you think you are a better judge of the nature of the apparitions ( not from being of God ) than Saint Padre Pio and 2 Popes , one who is another saint, check your ego ,it may lack humility )

Mary’s insistence on Repentance, Confession, Mass, Communion, the Rosary, the brown scapular, all indicate that this was of God, for no other explanation is possible.

 

NO EVIL PRESENCE AT GARABANDAL

A story that confirmed for me that those uneducated about Garabandal, and falsely accuse it of having some diabolical or evil presence, are 100% wrong. Here is testimony from a priest, Father Jose Ramon Garcia de la Riva ,an eyewitness,who wrote a book on the authenticity of the apparitions, and one story in particular to erase his own fears of any evil presence.

http://www.ourlady.ca/info/de la Riva/delaRiva24.htm

 

Glenn, you just stated a falsehood. Numbers 4-7 and all the rest of the false prophecies listed are from a book called
GARABANDAL. Apparitions Prophétiques de Marie. As I stated in my post, the author is Jacques Serre - Beatrice Caux. The page numbers are listed next to the false prophecy. The BVM apparently named all these people in her prophetic vision to the girls, why wouldn't you know about that? Conchita would know, wouldn't she? She should know who the paralytic boy was that the BVM was referring to, right? Conchita should know who the BVM was referring to in her visions and the outcome of all these prophecies, right? Why don't you find out? You know her.

 

The lifting up of the girls by each other and the immovability of the girls by grown men is a characteristic of demonic possession, not any approved apparitions that there have ever been. Walking or running backwards are characteristics of demonic possession. What other mystics or approved visionaries have walked and ran backwards during their ecstasies? Demonically possessed people have. Knowledge of things that should be unknown to them regarding returning the rosaries is also a characteristic of demonic possession. Also, it's interesting the the BVM did not want any items that were already blessed by a priest so she could bless them herself. Aversion to blessed items is also a characteristic of the demonic. Ordained priests and deacons are the ones appointed to bless holy items anyway. No other approved visionaries have ever been forced to their knees in a sudden, harsh, undignified manner like these visionaries. Conchita did have blood and swelling on her knees afterward, according to the diary of Father Andreu. So, you are wrong, they were harmed by the kneeling and falls.

The appearance on the tongue of a communion host was done many times by false visionary Julia Kim, whose apparitions were condemned by the Church.

Your argument that we need to check our humility because we disagree with the supposed opinion of a holy person about a private revelation is absurd. These people are subject to error, and have erred. Saints have been wrong about private revelations and their own prophecies many times. They have no authority in the matter and may well have had inaccurate or incomplete information about the apparitions. Plus, the supposed endorsement of several of these holy people is based on hearsay.

 

As I stated in another post, this is from a book recommended by Garabandal promoters. I named the book and author in my other post. Conchita should know the name of the paralytic boy the BVM was referring to, shouldn't she? You have never asked her about it? These false prophecies are documented in the book and Conchita should know who all the people are about whom the BVM wrongly predicted. You use all kinds of unsubstantiated information and alleged quotes from people which can never be verified. They are often simply stories which have developed among believers or promoters of the apparitions. This happens all the time with false apparitions.

 

Faith is a gift. "Belief" in something like a private revelation can be misguided, and often is. It can also do great harm if misguided. What about the "gift" of belief for the followers of Bayside, Necedah and the Little Pebble? Was their belief a gift in those instances? You are misguided in your multiple boasts that your belief in Garabandal is a gift.

 

It ought to be very easy for you to confirm or discredit the stories about all the other false prophecies. You know Conchita, and you have never thought to ask her about them? She ought to know if these prophecies were given to her, shouldn't she?

 

Faith doesn't apply to whether you believe in a private revelation or not. You gather evidence and try to determine if it seems worthy of belief. A person can have the greatest faith in the world, yet realize that a particular private revelation isn't real. St. John of the Cross exhorted others to ignore private revelations and mystical occurrences because of the potential spiritual harm that can be done. The Church never guarantees that a private revelation is real. It states that it is worthy of belief, but puts no obligation on the people to believe it.

 

It is obvious Mike that you have come onto this forum with an agenda. You have contributed nothing but anti-Garabandal propaganda.

I look forward to you posting something positive on another thread but then that wouldn't fit into your agenda would it?

 

This is an example of the level of absurdity that people go to in order to explain the prophecies that did not come true. "Incorrupt" means free from decay or any corruption. The body has already decayed and been corrupted. The body would not be incorrupt, but would be reconstructed.

 

How do you know what the BVM meant? Did you always know this or did you just revise your interpretation after too many popes had been elected and the world had not ended? Did she explain the meaning of what she meant by "end of the times?" It is an odd way to word it. What "era" was she talking about? What "eras" have we had before? Is this your interpretation or based on an explanation by the BVM?

 

I was always taught that we can judge people's actions but not their intentions. I have read nothing that Mike G has said that are not reasonable questions. I, for one, feel I have been harmed by following the false message Fr Gobbi gave about the year 2000, an obvious false locution. There are legitimate questions he is asking,.