Evil Empire or Russia Consecrated?

Extraordinary claims, especially when they attempt to implicate Church authorities in some sort of deception of conspiracy, demand extraordinary evidence. The evidence that you are supplying doesn't come close to cutting it.

What we have here is a fellow by the name of Chris Ferrara reading Cardinal Ratzinger's words for us. No official Vatican transcript is provided. Sorry, that's not going to pass muster.

I will provide you with the official, definitive, final Vatican statement on the matter of the Consecration, a statement that was prepared by the Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, then Archbishop Bertone, who - as you have correctly admitted here BrianK - acted on the orders of his superior, then Cardinal Ratzinger:

"Sister Lucia personally confirmed that this solemn and universal act of consecration corresponded to what Our Lady wished (“Sim, està feita, tal como Nossa Senhora a pediu, desde o dia 25 de Março de 1984”: “Yes it has been done just as Our Lady asked, on 25 March 1984”: Letter of 8 November 1989). Hence any further discussion or request is without basis." http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...on_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html

 

I'll see if I can obtain a copy of the official Vatican transcipt.

If I do, I'll post it online and here.

But I honestly doubt that will satisfy you.

 

'But what about defending one's good name? St. Francis de Sales in his Introduction to the Devout Life in the chapter, "Of Patience" (6) looks at this question more deeply. He also explains how we should respond to various forms of persecution. He emphasizes earlier in the chapter that it is easier to suffer persecution from the wicked, and much more difficult to suffer it at the hands of relatives, friends and others with whom we are close. He goes so far as to say that the devout soul should desire it more than the former. He then explains what one should do, if innocent, and accusations persist. This is taken from a Google Book version written in 1891 by Longman's, Green & Co., London:


"The following advice of St. Gregory is useful: whenever you are 'justly accused' of a fault, humble yourself, and candidly confess that you deserve more than the accusation which is brought against you; but, if the charge be false, excuse yourself meekly, denying your guilt, for you owe this respect to truth, and to the edification of your neighbor. But if, after your true and lawful excuse, they should continue to accuse you, trouble not yourself nor strive to have your excuse admitted; for, having discharged your duty to truth, you must also do the same to humility, by which means you neither offend against the care you ought to have of your reputation, nor the love you owe to peace, meekness of heart, and humility."'

If, as St Francis De Sales suggests we should seek to defend the truth when we ourselves are falsely accused how much the more should we defend the truth when others are accused?

Jesus did as much when both He Himself and the disciples were accused whilst on Earth. The Lion of Juda roared.

As to Russia being hard done by. No doubt this is true. Just as it is also true that Russia has done hard on others in her own turn. But I cannot help thinking that this is besides the point.

 

Thank you.

And of course it will satisfy me. I find official Vatican statements utterly satisfying.

 

Here is an interesting article on the Third Secret.

http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2010/03/third-secret-of-fatima-explained.html

 

Most interesting.

What's also interesting is something I read a while back in which Cardinal Ricardo Vidal of Cebu in the Philippines had stated that Sister Lucia had told him that had the Consecration not been done in 1984, there would have been nuclear war in 1985; I woudn't be surprised if some years from now declassified materials come to light confirming the Cardinal's assertion.

 

I believe the Chastisement has been held of on a number of occasions, including quite recently.

 

Yep, you're a regular Fr. Brown. But not strange at all; I do write and speak occasionally on Catholic issues in various venues.

 

There is no doubt that Pope John Paul II's consecration had a salutary effect:

March 25, 1984 Pope John Paul II, "united with all the pastors of the Church in a particular bond whereby we constitute a body and a college," consecrates "the whole world, especially the peoples for which by reason of their situation you have particular love and solicitude." Both the Pope and Sr. Lucia initially seemed uncertain that the consecration has been fulfilled, but shortly thereafter Sr. Lucia tells the papal nuncio to Portugal that the Consecration is fulfilled.
May 13, 1984 One of the largest crowds in Fatima history gathers at the shrine to pray the Rosary for peace.
May 13, 1984 An explosion at the Soviets’ Severomorsk Naval Base destroys two-thirds of all the missiles stockpiled for the Soviets’ Northern Fleet. The blast also destroys workshops needed to maintain the missiles as well as hundreds of scientists and technicians. Western military experts called it the worst naval disaster the Soviet Navy has suffered since WWII.
December 1984 Soviet Defense Minister, mastermind of the invasion plans for Western Europe, suddenly and mysteriously dies.

Saturday, May 31, 2008
Soviet Naval Disaster of the Day - Severomorsk is Nearly Obliterated, 17 May 1984

This event is never mentioned in print. What is being refered to is the explosion at Okol'naya - the main ammunition storage base for the Northern Fleet. Back then, because of a sailor's cigarette butt, almost half of the fleet's supply of strategic missiles, torpedoes and mines were destroyed in the course of an hour and a half. It was at the end of the work day. Missiles flew above the bay in corkscrew trajectories. One after another, and another...The air was full of howls, crashes, thunder and explosions. In the city as well as on the ships at their moorings in Severomorsk, it was immediately understood - Okol'naya was the source of the fireworks, its granite walls rising just a kilometer from a neighborhood and a few hundred meters from the ships of the 7th Squadron. There were two nuclear submarines acutally tied up at Okol'naya. The "fireworks display" grew. Several mindless missiles corkscrewed into the sky, flying in the direction of the town and the ships. Soon a giant cone of black fire spread in the sky. It slowly rose into the sky, taking on a mushroom form, leading to alarm in the population of the town.



Women ran into the streets with children in their arms, many only half dressed in house coats and slippers, the men running henny-penny with them, certain of them in uniform, giving the scene a weird drama. People ran up the stairs that lead up the slopes of the hills. Someone fell, he was picked up and dragged. Cars jammed the routes out of town. The cars were packed, but despite this they stopped to pick up children which their mothers literally threw into the arms of strangers. Screams, cries, curses - all drowned out by the thunder and howl from the volcano that was Mount Okol'naya. Black with an orange-purple mushroom top, growing to its full height in an instant, nodding toward the town, but afterwards it began to slowly settle in the direction of the tundra and the ocean.

There were casualties. I can confidently talk about two brave people - an officer attempting to extinguish the flames and a sailor staying behind to man his post in a burning storage building. The prevailing wind was in the direction of the town - hundreds, maybe thousands were poisoned by the fallout (the authorities prepared for the evacuation of neighboring Murmansk). A catastrophic ending could have occured with a bombardment by ships with nuclear reactors and full charges in their missile launchers.

This is just a snapshot. Not one town or village would want to live through this. But, judging by all the military units that have had such explosions and fires, even at the sites most suceptible to explosions, it hasn't been foresworn.

Author:
Vladimir Yermolin
June 9th, 2001​

The question remains: was Russia named as Mary requested at Fatima in the consecration, and was it done with all the bishops of the world? If not, how could it fulfill the demands of the Blessed Virgin Mary at Fatima?

 

Amazing

 

THIS IS TOTAL RUBBISH. It reads like a report from Russia Today News Channel. The Ukraine never wanted to be part of Russia and they never will be, through out its history Russia has invaded Ukraine for its own territorial Advantage and the Ukrainian People have always resisted. Even during the Second World War the Ukrainian people joined Germany to fight the Russians, who took their revenge by plunging the Ukraine into a famine killing millions of Ukrainians by starvation. This is not even counting the 8 million Catholics that Stalin sent to the Gulags blaming the Catholics of being traitors to Russia and to him.

 

Total rubbish? Nonsense.

I am going to be charitable and simply say that your interpretation of events sounds like something that came out of Obama's State Department.

I form my opinion on the facts. The fact of the matter is that it is Mr. Poroshenko who is currently butchering his own people, including women and children, not Mr. Putin. The only time Putin got involved was when Russian national security interests were threatened in Crimea, and Putin executed that operation with restraint.

We also now know that it was Neo-Nazi mercenaries and other criminals (fully supported by Team Obama) who were the snipers who fired on unarmed Maidan protesters and who then blamed their murder on Yanukovych, all with the complicity of the lying Western Media Machine; we know this from the hacked and leaked secret transcripts between Catheine Ashton and the Estonian minister.

Regarding Malaysian Flight 17, all the facts point to Kiev's responsibility. The Russians released military satellite and radar data implicating Kiev and have requested that the United States, who had a satellite over the area at the time release their images. Strangely, Team Obama refuses to make that data public. Kiev also refuses to release the radio transcripts from the Air Traffic Controllers who were in contact with MH 17. All the evidence, when looked at objectively without prjudice, implicates Kiev and Washington in the murder of the passengers of MH17. The makes sense also when you consider the modus operandi of Poroshenko, who has no problem launching indiscriminate attacks on the peaceful citizens of the Donbass.


Putin and Russia are being demonized because Russia was Consecrated and the errors of Russia have indeed infected the West.

 

Here it comes. They need their gold back.


US opens the gates to World War III


Young military school cadets march with the flag of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic during a swearing-in ceremony in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk on November 22, 2014.

Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:39AM GMT
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Paul Craig Roberts, paulcraigroberts.org

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According to news reports, Washington has decided to arm Ukraine for renewed military assault on Russian ethnics in Donetsk and Luhansk.

A Russian foreign ministry official condemned Washington’s reckless decision to supply weapons to Kiev as a violation of agreements that would make a political resolution of the conflict less likely. This statement is perplexing. It implies that the Russian government has not yet figured out that Washington has no interest in resolving the conflict. Washington’s purpose is to use the hapless Ukrainians against Russia. The worse the conflict becomes, the happier Washington is.

The Russian government made a bet that Europe would come to its senses and the conflict would be peacefully resolved. The Russian government has lost that bet and must immediately move to preempt a worsening crisis by uniting the separatists provinces with Russia or by reading the riot act to Europe.

It would be a costly humiliation for the Russian government to abandon the ethnic Russians to a military assault. If Russia stands aside while Donetsk and Luhansk are destroyed, the next attack will be on Crimea. By the time Russia is forced to fight Russia will face a better armed, better prepared, and more formidable foe.

By its inaction the Russian government is aiding and abetting Washington’s onslaught against Russia. The Russian government could tell Europe to call this off or go without natural gas. The Russian government could declare a no-fly zone over the separatist provinces and deliver an ultimatum to Kiev. The Russian government could accept the requests from Donetsk and Luhansk for unification or reunification with Russia. Any one of these actions would suffice to resolve the conflict before it spins out of control and opens the gates to World War III.

The American people are clueless that Washington is on the brink of starting a dangerous war. Even informed commentators become sidetracked in refuting propaganda that Russia has invaded Ukraine and is supplying weapons to the separatists. These commentators are mistaken if they think establishing the facts will do any good.

Washington intends to remove Russia as a constraint on Washington’s power. Washington’s arrogance is forcing a stark choice on Russia: vassalage or war.

Paul Craig Roberts is a former Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury and Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal. His latest book is How America Was Lost.

 

Anybody who thinks there is a "good guys" and a "bad guys" in this confrontation hasn't been paying attention. Both sides are bad.

We're so programmed to look for the evil side and the good side that we can no longer discern when neither side is "good."

Just another piece of the "diabolical disorientation" spoken of at Fatima.

 

If Russia is converting as you claim then can you explain to me please the behaviour of the Russian Orthodox Church which continually acts as an agent for Russian state power?

Repentance and conversion begin in the house of God but all the signs are there that the Russian Orthodox Church has 'mortgaged itself to state power and serves as its chaplain'.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/392768/ukrainian-lessons-west-george-weigel/page/0/2

 

Metropolitan Hillarion was one of the brightest lights of the Russian Orthodox Church. Unfortunately he has proven to be nothing more than another Putin pawn.

http://denvercatholicregister.org/opinion/ecumenism-russian-state-power/
Ecumenism and Russian state power
November 11, 2014

Metropolitan Hilarion of Volokolamsk, head of the Russian Orthodox Church’s department of external relations and a frequent visitor to the West, is a young man of parts: a widely-published author; a composer; a gifted linguist. He can be charming and witty, as I discovered during two hours of conversation at the Library of Congress in 2011; and in the intervening years he’s positioned himself and his Church as defenders of traditional Christian values in a world threatened by Western decadence.

There’s a serious problem, however: Metropolitan Hilarion does not always speak the truth.

In the year since the Maidan “revolution of dignity” broke out in Ukraine, Hilarion has gone out of his way to attack the Greek Catholic Church of Ukraine, charging that this largest of the Eastern Catholic Churches has been a partisan political actor; that its priests have fomented violence; and that Ukrainian Greek Catholics have been working to keep Ukrainian Orthodoxy divided. These are calumnies, for the charges are demonstrably false: the Greek Catholic Church in Ukraine has been a voice for national moral renewal and reconciliation; its priests have risked their lives to aid men and women of all confessions; and the Greek Catholic leadership has worked within the country’s established ecumenical structures to forge a united religious voice for a Ukraine that is free and prosperous, rid of the corruptions that have bedeviled it for decades.

In our Washington conversation, Metropolitan Hilarion would not even concede that the forced liquidation of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in 1946 was an act of thuggery perpetrated by Stalin’s secret police. Rather, he defended the bogus “L’viv Sobor [Council]” in the name of Orthodox prerogatives he evidently believes are threatened by Eastern-Rite Churches in full communion with Rome. That visceral disdain for the very existence of the Greek Catholic Church of Ukraine has also been on public display this past year.

So what happens? Hilarion is invited to the recent Synod in Rome, where he used part of his time addressing the representatives of global Catholicism to repeat his lies about the activity of the Greek Catholic Church in Ukraine and his contempt for that martyr-Church.

This is unacceptable. For the past year, Metropolitan Hilarion and his master, Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia, have functioned as agents of Russian state power in matters having to do with Ukraine. Which is to say, they have functioned as agents of Vladimir Putin. I take it as axiomatic that serious ecumenical dialogue is impossible when the dialogue-partner operates under ambiguous or false pretenses and uses the dialogue to advance political interests. Yet that is the charade that is allowed to continue when Hilarion is welcomed in Rome. Indeed, the charade is reinforced.

Major-Archbishop Sviatoslav Shevchuk of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church has suggested that Hilarion’s aggressive and offensive intervention at the Synod damaged the Russian Orthodox Church. That may be. But inviting Hilarion to participate in the Synod, after a year of lies about the courageous efforts of the Greek Catholic Church in Ukraine to support a moral revolution in that hard-pressed land, was a self-inflicted wound on the part of the Holy See. It is now past time to re-examine the default positions in the Vatican Secretariat of State, and at the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity that permitted Hilarion to lie in the Synod hall and to call into question the integrity of the Greek Catholic Church of Ukraine as an ecclesial community.

No “dialogue” is worth the appeasement of aggression abetted by falsehood. Nothing is accomplished in terms of moderating Russian Orthodoxy’s historic deference to Russian state power (be that czarist power, communist power, or the “managed democracy” of Mr. Putin) by giving Hilarion a platform like the Synod. And despite the fantasies of some Western pro-life and pro-family activists, there is nothing to be gained for those great causes in tandem with the current leadership of Russia, or of Russian Orthodoxy.

Stemming and then reversing the tide of Western decadence cannot be done by compromises with the truth.

 

So, because the Orthodox patriarchs may actually be telling the truth with regard to the cozy relationship between certain Catholic leaders in Ukraine and an illegal Junta in Kiev guilty of butchering their own citizens, and because Putin looks to the Orthodox Church for spiritual support, this makes the Russian Patriarchs somehow sinister?

Nonsense!

It is actually some of the Catholic leaders in Ukraine who have explaining to do. Not one of the Ukrainian Catholic "leaders" that you mentioned has condemned the violent coup against the democratically elected Yanukovych. Not one of these Catholic "leaders" in Ukraine have condemned the war criminal Poroshenko and his ongoing unjust war against the Donbass. Sounds like it is certain Ukrainian Catholic figures who are the ones in bed with the political leaders and who have put Nationalism above their duty to condemn the unjust actions of their government.

 

Richard.... Iam sure you are aware of Cardinal (then Father) Bertone's visit with two other priests to visit SIster Lucia in her convent. Why do you think he refused to allow the other two priests in to visit with Lucia when they got there? Could he possibly have had a hidden agenda even back then? Could it be that Cardinal Bertone as Secretary Head of State was a reason that Pope Benedict said "my authority ends at this door" as he knew he was not listened to? Perhaps this is why he retired? Perhaps this is why Bertone lost his high seat in the Vatican by Pope Francis and why he is being investigated by the Vatican for money mismamagement? Not a very good track record for a person who has all the alleged coments on the 3rd secret of Fatima and Consecration of Russia coming from Lucia herself.

 

Wow. You're taking the side of the Russian Orthodox against the Catholic Church?

I guess there's no further point in debating with you as your irrational bias leaves us with no common ground for discussion.

I don't support either side of the warring factions, the Ukrainian government or the Russian government.

I do however know that the Russians murdered millions of Ukrainian Catholics, stole their churches and properties, and to this day have refused to admit their guilt in either and have refused to return Catholic property.

If you want to side with the Russians in this, that's your right, but don't expect to find allies on a Catholic forum.

 

LOL!!

You don't like my analysis so now you are going to muddy the water.

Classic!!!!