Apostasy

I understand you Mary...BH uses what he sees as fact as his basis to all arguments (Aquinas). He should use his skills with the starting point of God being real. (Augustine). But he does not...therefore it is hard for him to understand mystical concepts when he ignores the mystical. It is not a bad thing in itself...but he should be past these types of discussions. Nothing new can come from it until he changes his starting point.

Brother al

 

I tried my best to help you, I am sorry Joe but I have not any personal agenda, Padraig was right and your last post can only confirm what I said as well, I am open to help you at any time, please be sure of that, I will also Pray for you, thank you.

Aviso

 

I think the important point is that Scripture and the Catechism are limited because they are written documents, and any written document is open to a certain amount of misinterpretation. The Magisterium is the living authority which is needed to speak when a controversy or a new situation which hasn't been covered by previous teaching arises.

 

The trouble with your stance is that it seems to stunt any possibility of growth and developement of the Church in its wisdom to better meet the needs of future generations. It seems to deny the Church's authority, at least under Pope Francis, to make changes.

 

I know my mind. You and Padraig do not. You are both very very wrong and you will be shown this. Human beings are imperfect and the way they record things and interpret them is often imperfect. But this imperfection is often perfectly suited to reveal what we need to know for our salvation....for now. We are not given equally but sufficiently. This imperfection is never clearer than in your presentation of my comments. You have borne, if not false, then at least erroneous witness against me, as has Padraig. But I can live with that.

 

Mary's Living Room isn't as peaceful as it once was. I think this in and of itself is a sign of the times . . .

 

The personal agenda to which I refer is against the personhood, integrity and ability of Pope Francis to lead us in the way of Truth. This is clear in your track record. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

 

You are right FP. But the peace we seek is not as the world offers peace. Ours is the peace of Truth. And sometimes that involves struggle. Most times, actually, for most of us mere mortals. What is mortal man that God should keep us in mind? I believe I can answer that. Mortal man is the object of God's love, a love so great that God sacrificed his only Son that we may be immortal and happy with Him forever in heaven. We are God's desire and we are priceless in His eyes. Unbelievable but true!

 

Look at the pictures too Padraig. Is posting a picture of the heretical and schismatic Martin Luther with headlines that IMO are not so thinly veiled linkages to the pope ok? Even if not linked to the pope, to link a heretic to anyone based upon a headline I think is at best not charitable and at worse a potential heresy and schism in itself.

 

Padraig is in my prayers. It is not easy moderating the forum in these days of confusion. I suspect he is tugging at the hem of our Lady ----

 

The boat has to go through a very narrow and difficult pathway in the middle of the biggest war of the apostasy, but with the help of Our Blessed Mother and with the redeeming power of the Eucharist we shall remain, with the Holy Father, in the same holy direction of ever.

Bless Saint John Bosco pray for the Holy Father, he must be suffering a lot by watching so much apostasy against the Holy Doctrine of Christ.

 

Agree. I think there is not just human nature at play right now at this forum. Praying

 

Thank you MC for coming to my defense. I can assure you you I believe all that is approved by our Church for Faith. The bible, as we both know is both the Word of God and the Word about God. Through the Magisterium and Tradition we are instructed how this Word should be taken and lived in our Catholic Faith. In this way we are fed with the best of food. I was not trying to make any point with BH never mind an intellectual point. I do not have the mind for that. I was just trying to understand the point he was trying to make and trying to see if his point was helpful. In education there is an old saying, "Tell me and I will forget, show me and I will remember, involve me and I will understand." We have to involve our selves in the life of faith to grasp its meaning and application. My ex, a wonderful woman, had three very good university degrees including one from Cambridge England. I was telling my old Dad about these qualifications before our wedding. In half a joke he said "Oh son, she sounds far too clever for the likes of you." I have met and conversed with geniuses and I don't see BH as one. I am sure he will agree. I do not feel he is too clever for the likes of me but he is learned and qualified and he is trying his best which is as good as anyone's best. I understand what he is saying. That does not mean I agree with him or his way. Perhaps we all need to release our grip so that we can increase our grasp. The time is fast approaching when we will not dare to relax our grip. We will be holding on for grim life. For now at least we can give others the same benefit of the doubt that we would like to be extended to ourselves. We can still disagree and express our opinion and, as in the case of Padraig, exclude what we consider to be erroneous and damaging opinion. We can even try to correct each other in accordance with the way of holy scripture. Every time someone contradicts BH in a well ordered way, I learn something. This is Padraig's site, his call. Not an easy job and I believe the pay is rotten. I must admit I have become a bit addicted to this site even to the detriment of my prayer life. I will have to change that and remind myself that what I or others have to say is not that important. But it feels like family to me. I would miss it. I live on my own and my family is 12,000 miles away. I have lost the affection of some of them by standing up for the Truths of the Church as I am sure many of this site have. I have learned to live without my real family and if necessary I will learn to live without this one. I even hold great affection for those on this site with whom I heartily disagree such as Aviso. I hardly know them but there it is. I think it is the universal love of the Catholic Church that gives this sense of family. Padraig would have me out of this family according to his latest outburst. I have been amazed at conference with the amount of knowledge that new graduates in my profession possess. What they lack, however, is experience. So much ignorance springs from lack of experience and much of the rest from not learning by experience. In the life of the Spirit the more we pray and take advantage of the sacraments and do good works in our parishes and our families the more we grow in the type of knowledge given priority by God; the type of knowledge that come from living a good life as we have been told to do by Our Lady of Mount Carmel when she appeared in Garabandal. She said "FIRST lead good lives." This then is our priority. In the beginning Adam choose the tree of knowledge over the tree of Life. This was our first big mistake. Our original sin. He disobeyed God and lost the good life.

 

You are right, MC, in your understanding of what I was trying to say. Tradition is the eternal work of the Holy Spirit that brings each of us to a fuller understanding and appreciation of God, His Word and His Works. These include approved Scripture and Catechism and Creation. Such understanding and appreciation are still a work in progress for most of us. Otherwise why have Synods and Councils at all. Thank you for your understanding and the understanding you have given me. Perhaps Aviso needs new glasses. Perhaps we all do. I feel our Holy Father is trying to fit us all with new and better glasses. God Bless him. I find your way of seeing sola scriptura far more compelling and convincing than Aviso's. I am sure there are many theologians out there who agree with you. I can only say this from a common sense point of view as I am am not a Theologian. I have no sources.

 

I do feel that we should probably be kinder, more charitable, and give each other the benefit of the doubt more. People generally wouldn't be on this site unless they are trying to serve God and His Church. If someone is wrong about something, we can point it out gently. We are all prone to make errors and can learn from each other.

In the times ahead, I think we are all going to need each other.

 

You recently posted how you refused to give way to three Muslim youths who tried to force you into the gutter on the streets of Belfast, your home town. The Catholic Church is my home town and you have forced me into the gutter with apostates and heretics. Do what you like but now I am standing up to you just as you stood up to those thugs. I am not calling you a thug. I am simply standing up to you, as those who presented their heads for the club did in peaceful protest in the film Ghandi. (In Glasgow they present their heads in different way. Thank God those days are gone.) I am fully Catholic in every sense and thank God you have no say in that. I think we both know who has been the real muck spreader here. Perhaps you should read some of the comments that have shown me support. They have reached down and lifted me from the gutter into which you pushed me. They have cleaned the muck off me that you have thrown. As I have said, you have my forgiveness, but I know it is not complete. I am afraid that pride and self pity are still at play. I am going for a drive and a walk at the beach. See if I can get you out of my head. May God forgive both of us. I would have liked to have made a joke of this but you have gone too far for that. The best I can do is offer you the sign of peace - a hand shake - like you know when you were a kid and were told to shake hands and make up and you did it reluctantly. I hope that is enough to let me approach the altar.

 

I am afraid it is only going to get worse. We are already showing cracks in the edifice and nothing big has really started yet. This little forum is only a reflection of what is going on throughout the entire Church right now. The laity are mirroring the agitation going on in the ranks of the Princes of the Church. May God please help everyone on the forum when the going really gets tough. Mary guide us through the confusion to come and guide each soul here to your Son.

 

FS how about discussing issues rather than unsolicited views on other members in the third person.