FR V.... another portion of is Homily... http://fathervenditti.com/5-2-2015.htm But there's an aspect of this that often escapes us—at least I've not seen it mentioned in any of the Fatima literature that I've read—and that's how none of this is new. Maybe it had not been said before in these words until Mary spoke those words to Lucia; but, remember, that all valid and authentic apparitions of the Mother of God never give us any new revelation; they only present to us what has been revealed before by Christ through His Church; that's how the Church judges an apparition as authentic: that it reveals only that which has been revealed, simply giving it a new emphasis for the needs of a new age. And what is revealed in our Lady's words to Lucia here is what we all know from our childhood catechism as the Communion of the Saints. Why do we pray for the souls in Purgatory? Why do we ask the saints in heaven to pray for us? Why do we pray for one another? Because the Church Triumphant, the Church suffering and the Church militant are all one Church, linked together in prayer and sacrament to the Lord who rules them all. We make donations to the priest so that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass may be offered for our deceased relatives and friends; we pray for those who are sick and suffering; we implore the saints to make our needs known to God with the increased clout, as it were, that we presume they have before the throne of God. Why? Because of the Communion of the Saints. What our Blessed Mother asks of us by means of reparation in keeping the First Five Saturdays is an extension of the Communion of the Saints, repackaged, as it were, for our needs in these troubled times
Jon that quote is a snipet from Colin Donovan staff Theologan @ EWTN....I placed the link in the post for full context....check it out Apparitions/Private Revelations Private Revelation Sources of Private Revelations Private Revelations Without Roman Approval Types of Decisions Responsibility of the Faithful Answered by Colin B. Donovan, STL http://www.ewtn.com/expert/expertfaqframe.asp
Thanks Brian, Any chance you can point me to a Vatican document by Cardinal Ratzinger saying all this or approved Vatican source... Thanks PS I just don't trust Ferrara ...im gonna write something later on the thread between all these individuals everyone keeps using and how they connect in one way or another to the Lefbvre/SSPX movement/ULTRA Traditionalists / Veronica Luken Bayshore apparitions in NY ( condemned by the local Bishop ) ...more later, im not feeling well today Peace : )
My argument remains the same, regardless of who he is, when you synthesize Colin Donovan's position that: "Everything else in life rests on human faith in the credibility of assertions of truth of one kind or another, such as .....whether the Blessed Virgin appeared to a certain person." ...with your position that: "those who continue to propagate Russia wasn't consecrated, Its a GRIEVOUS SIN!!!! FR V said to persist in this stupidity....those who persist are at war with Christ...." <--- (Thou dost protest too much, methinks , in my opinion, when calling people "stupid". Similar to George W. Bush and others trying to paint any conspiracy theorists as stupid and dangerous after 9-11.) You claim no authority of the Church on one hand in this area, and the complete authority of the Church on the other. I myself do not really take a position on the consecration issue. I trust that what must be done, either has been done, or will be done in God's time. I don't trust either side politically (Russia at this time, or the US/West at this time), so I don't think anybody can reliably point to either side as tangible evidence one way or the other regarding "fruits" of consecration. There is too much done in secret on both sides. However, in a similar matter, when choosing to cite EWTN staff, one must always remember that Mother Angelica herself believes that the 3rd secret release was not complete. Though if so, she trusts that the Church has good reason for its decisions.
Our Lady of Fatima's Request Does Not Fulfill Sister Lucy Interviewed by Blue Army Insists 1984 Consecration in the light of events unfolding within the Church in 1985. Sol de Fatima. Following the interview with Sister Lucy, the second part of the Fatima Secret is considered by Sol de FatimaHere are some extracts published in the month of September 1985 from the magazine of the Spanish section of the Blue Army, Sister Lucy, during the Vision of Toy, was revealed hidden facts about the Most Holy Trinity and the explicit request of Our Lady for the solemn and public consecration of specifically Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Only "by this means" will we be saved from Russian Communist enslavement. During an interview, Sister Lucy, the seer of Fatima, gave some details about the Secret of Fatima in particular on the subject of the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Question: At what moment of the Fatima mystery do we find ourselves? Sister Lucy: I think we are living in the time when Russia is spreading its errors throughout the world. Question: By that, are we to understand that Russia will take possession of the whole world? Sister Lucy: Yes. Question: John Paul II had invited all the bishops to join in the consecration of Russia, which he was going to make at Fatima on 13 May 1982 and which he was to renew at the end of the Holy Year in Rome on 25 March 1984, before the original statue of Our Lady of Fatima. Has he not therefore done what was requested at Tuy? Sister Lucy: There was no participation of all the bishops, and there was no mention of Russia. Question: So the consecration was not done as requested by Our Lady? Sister Lucy: No. Many bishops attached no importance to this act. Indeed, today more than yesterday, many bishops and priests doubt the message of Fatima and do not think that the conversion of Russia can be brought about by such a simple act of magical appearance. Without doubt, it is the power of darkness in conflict with the victorious Virgin that has prevented the fulfillment of this purely transcendental act. Today, twenty years after the end of the Council, which roused so many hopes, we are truly alarmed by the state of confusion reigning in the Church. The errors of Russia are manifest in Marxism that has taken over great sectors of the Church causing the apostasy of numerous Christians and the indifference of the masses. What was foretold by the Fatima message is truly coming to pass: "If My requests are not granted, Russia will spread its errors throughout the whole world, provoking wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred. The Holy Father will have much to suffer; entire countries will be annihilated." Only the Blessed Virgin, in whose hands Our Lord has placed the peace of the world, can bring us this peace. We are in the hour of darkness, the hour of Satan ... "The Blue Army has much to do" said Lucy during her last visit to Fatima ... Fatima teaches the way of salvation, even though numerous ecclesiastics do not believe in it. The Woman of the Apocalypse, that is to say Our Lady of Fatima, is confronted by the Prince of darkness. United in prayer, we shall arrive at what Our Lady announced: "In the end, My Immaculate Heart shall triumph." Let us be united in this gigantic battle, during which the forces of evil may seem momentarily victorious. We may suffer, but we shall not succumb. Keep the faith and stay confident. The final victory will be ours. P.B. Fatima Crusader Editors' Note: This article reflects the Doctrine of the Blue Army before its "updating" in the years 1985 - 1986. The Blue Army underwent some fundamental changes in direction in 1985 - 1986 due to its International leadership. These fundamental changes are further explained in the soon to be published book — The Fatal Fox Consecration Hoax. Available from The Fatima Crusader. Call 1-800-263-8160.
Can anyone who thinks that Pope John Paul 11 Consecrated Russia show me any documents or any video of him doing so, as far as i know only one Pope has ever mentioned Russia Any chance you can point me to any Vatican Document where Pope John Paul says I POPE JOHN PAUL 11 CONSECRATE RUSSIA TO THE IMMACULATE HEART OF MARY.
Please don't attempt to tar the Traditionalist movement wih the bogus BaySide hoax. I know hundreds of Traditional Catholics both online and in real life and have never met a single one that believes in Bayside. On the other hand I've had church ladies at several Novus Ordo parishes push Bayside pamphlets and petals into my hands. I attend a diocesan Extraordinary Form mass several Sundays a month and the Novus Ordo as many weekdays as possible. That makes me a "Trad" among many mainstream Novus Ordo Catholics and either a fool or a traitor among some of the more extreme elements in the SSPX. Be that as it may I have more in common with an average SSPX parishioner or priest than I do with the average member of the USCCB, more than half of whom voted for the radical pro abort candidate for US president in 2008. So please spare us about how evil the rad trads are. We have far bigger problems of far greater gravity than the tiny fraction of rad trads out there that so many seem to obsess over.
It sounds to me like the Fr. V you are talking about is just stating his own opinion, but that doesn't mean it is the Church's position. He thinks it is disobedience to the Church to believe the consecration wasn't done.....I don't see how that can be considered disobedience. It is not a matter of doctrine or official teaching. I have a hard time trusting an individual priest's opinion because I have heard two priests say the exact opposite on issues and both claim that their opinion is Church teaching. Well, they can't both be right. Priests are not infallible.
NO TARR on traditionalists...I believe I said ultra traditionalists.....MASSIVE difference. I have first hand knowledge of SSPX members that believe in bayshore. In fact they used one of veronicas messages to support Lefebrves rejection of Vatican2. one message stated Blessed pope Paul the VI was murdered and replaced by another after having plastic surgery to look like pope Paul. So since only a Pope can open or close a Council the Council was invalid and SSPX is right,per these ultra traditionalists. will post on Fr Grunner seperatley...link to bayside/Grunner story http://thetablet.org/parish-alert-on-bayside-apparition-event/
Editor's Space http://thetablet.org/parish-alert-on-bayside-apparition-event/ Parish Alert on Bayside ‘Apparition’ Event June 11, 2014 By Ed Wilkinson You may have wondered why last week we printed Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio’s statement on the alleged apparition of Our Lady of the Roses in Bayside. Very simply, despite years of explaining that there is absolutely no validity to the claims of the late Veronica Leuken and her followers, devotions to “Our Lady of Bayside” persist. The diocese’s chancellor, Msgr. Anthony Hernandez, recently sent a communiqué to all pastors warning about a suspended priest who encourages these devotions and is planning an appearance in Queens. It stated: “Recently, our Diocesan Bishop, the Most Reverend Nicholas DiMarzio, received confirmation from the Holy See that the Reverend Nicholas Gruner, who is currently incardinated in the Archdiocese of Hyderabad, in India, continues to labor under the canonical sanction of suspension, cf. Can. 1333, which has been confirmed by the Apostolic Signatura in Rome. “Father Gruner is scheduled to appear at the LaGuardia Marriott Hotel Ballroom on June 22, 2014 at an event to mark the 44th anniversary of the alleged apparitions of the Blessed Mother at Bayside. This event is to benefit St. Michael’s World Apostolate. “Please be advised that the Diocese of Brooklyn has consistently rejected the veracity of the claims concerning the alleged Marian apparitions in Bayside, Queens. Recently, Bishop DiMarzio released a statement reaffirming the positions of his two predecessors, Most Reverend Francis J. Mugavero and the Most Reverend Thomas V. Daily. This statement was printed in The Tablet (June 7) and is posted on the diocesan website in order that the faithful of the Diocese of Brooklyn be fully informed of the Church’s decision on this matter. “Given that Father Gruner remains suspended, and, given that the alleged Bayside apparitions have been rejected by the legitimate ecclesiastical authorities, the faithful are strongly discouraged from participating in any events connected to Father Gruner or St. Michael’s World Apostolate.” The statement speaks for itself. The local Church undertook an exhaustive study of the claims and has concluded that the Blessed Mother did not appear in Bayside, and any services organized around this title should stop. This is not a condemnation of the people who have been duped by this movement. A strong mail campaign was carried out, and a regular newsletter is published by the organizers as part of a public relations drive. As the late Bishop Francis J. Mugavero explained and Bishop DiMarzio has reiterated, there are many theologically erroneous statements issued by this group. They are dangerous to the unity of the Church and threaten to lead the faithful into false notions about the identity of Jesus and the role played by Mary in the history of salvation. All the while, the small but fervent followers of Mrs. Leuken have defied Church authorities and are speaking in opposition to Church authorities. We would all love to believe that the Blessed Mother has appeared in our figurative backyard. When the Mother of God has spoken to humankind, it always has been within the beliefs and tradition of the Church. We recall the messages of Lourdes and Fatima, which have official church approval. Sorry to say, the Blessed Mother did not appear in Bayside. It is a complete fraud. No one should waste their time following such beliefs. http://thetablet.org/parish-alert-on-bayside-apparition-event/
Gang!! I think this thread and others here is ... Just a Big Distraction!! ... and just more of the "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" BS that, simply, can have No Bearing on your Salvation and that of your Family, Neighbors and Friends. Unless YOU believe that The Storm is not upon US .... Bless Your Heart ... then I suggest that you focus on what IS approved, found worthy of belief and contained in Holy Scripture and the Magisterium..... and most importantly .... Jesus I Trust in YOU!!! The above have warned US to be Prepared and Watchful for phony prophets, miracles and DISTRACTIONS!! GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!
Heidi I see what your saying. Keep in mind this Homily was given on First Saturday(yesterday) at the World Apostolate of Fatima Shrine and is the only Vatican approved messanger of our Ladys Fatima message. Just days before Fr Gruner passed away who was the rival of WAOF on the Fatima MESSAGE/CONSECRATION of Russia.Fr Gruner built his apostalate around Fatima and the consecration not being fulfilled as our Lady requested with Great fervor.Keep in mind also this falls under private revelation,we do not have to believe in Fatima,Lourdes...etc and still be in good standing/communion with the Church.The Vatican says the consecration is done Fr Gruner says its not.For decades this issue has gone on and on until he was stripped of his Priestly faculties by the Church.Is Fr V off base ? but it is an issue of official teaching and Obediance. http://wafusa.org/the-apostolate/ Our Church StatusThe apostolate is a Public International Association of the Faithful under the Pontifical Council for the Laity. As such, it is the only Fatima organization in the world which speaks “in the name of the Church” and “with the authority of the Church” on Fatima. It has been positioned under The Pontifical Council for the Laity because its work is chiefly the work of the lay faithful. To read the Decree of the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for the Laity granting permanent status of the apostolate as a Public International Association of the Faithful, please click here. Decree WAF Permanent Approval – Oct.2010
Not off hand I cant....keep in mind when the consecration was done Russia didn't exist she was under the (USSR )
I can show you what was reported in Romes own newspaper Heidi , Where Pope John PII admits the consecration was not done, if that will help ?
I'll read it later if you post it : )... cant believe im still up. Im coming down with something,so tiered but cant sleep...ughhh
Our Lady Still "Awaiting Our Consecration" Two years later, this evasive approach was taken again when the Holy Father once more consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary in a ceremony before 250,000 people in Rome in March of 1984. But this time, the Pope made his position clearer. In a departure from his prepared text, he asked Our Lady of Fatima to "enlighten especially the peoples of which You Yourself are awaiting our consecration and confiding." The Pope thus publicly acknowledged that the consecration requested by Our Lady had still not been performed. These words were included in an official report of the event in L’Osservatore Romano on March 26, 1984. A similar report appeared the next day in the Italian bishops’ newspaper Avvenire, describing the Pope praying in St. Peter’s several hours after the consecration ceremony, asking Our Lady to bless "those peoples for whom You Yourself are awaiting our act of consecration and entrusting."
All of these arguments are just that. However, no one can deny this one obvious fact and all the spin in the world cannot convince otherwise. This one paragraph from our Lords' message to Verne that I posted earlier as follows: "My son at Fatima, my daughter Mary asked explicitly for the consecration of Russia by the Pope and the bishops of the world. This event has not taken place as asked by my daughter Mary. If it had my son, the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary would have already taken place. You would already be living in the era of peace. It is evident there is no peace in your world. Only a blind man would make such a statement".
