You are fortunate Aviso to have access to such primary documentation. I recall discovering somewhere that Fr Laffineur (or was it Fr. Pelletier) felt they could not mention in their books all of the things they discovered in interviewing the Seers. After reading Fr Laffineur's writings I am convinced that the Saint Conchita referred to (for the day of the miracle) must be St Tarcissius (which Fr Laffineur also held) because the description by Conchita recorded by Fr. was so detailed it could be no other. Which is problematic because his feastday is 15th August which contradicts other solid statements made by Conchita as Fr. acknowledged. His resolution was that there must be another date related to St Tarcissius that is different and it is up to Catholic historians to research this. The little research I have done shows that the date of the General Church Calendar is different from that of the local Spanish Calendar of Saints. (I gather Fr Laffineur is French not Spanish). But even that date still does not line up with other statements allegedly reported by Conchita, especially by those of Mr Weber if memory serves me correctly. It doesn't matter of course as it is clearly not given us to know these things in advance and if Our Lady did appear at Garabandal then these discrepancies will surely be answered come the Day. Lets just live the message regardless.
This may help (so long as you aren't one of the brigade here who suspect the Pope is the next worst thing to the antichrist). http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=882107&highlight=alien&page=2
I had never heard this, but yes here it is. Wednesday, August 29, 2007 THURSDAY, DECEMBER 20, 1962: CONTINUED . . . "THERE EXIST INTELLIGENT BEINGS ELSEWHERE THAN ON THE EARTH" . . . "Intelligent (rational) beings in outer space . . ." As an echo, in some way, of the lively discussion going on in the world at the time, Mercedes Salisachs, a remarkable witness, present these days at Garabandal, had Conchita ask the Blessed Virgin if there were intelligent beings in outer or interstellar space. - "Yes", was the stunning answer! Days after, Conchita, again in ecstasy, was heard asking her Vision if these mysterious beings are like us, sinners? - "They are like men, tainted alike by sin, but also redeemed by Christ just like men," was the new astonishing answer! These new revelations made to Conchita were to appear so exceptional to Fr. Lucio Rodrigo, S.J., when he learned about them, that, after an uneasy first impression, and then, after reflection, he went out to write that "it would well be that the Blessed Virgin, and through Her, Our Lord, were lifting the veil of a mystery which broadens in that way the dimensions of the Kingdom of Our Lord (and of the Most Blessed Virgin), so to include other rational creatures, which could, of course, not be angels (. . .)". (Letter, October 22, 1965, to the Marques de Santa Maria). True, the above revelations of this December 20, 1962, should they be confirmed by existing new documents not yet available to us, and also by Conchita herself, they would take us to give a new look at the absolute universality of Christ's redemption, but also to His unfathomable supremacy recapitulating all created realities, visible and invisible, even the mysterious Cosmic powers. So, couldn't we at least presume that the above-reported revelations were simply recalling, if also "confirming" a true kerygmatic truth, an article of the Church early Creed? Future and larger works on Garabandal, based on numerous authentic original sources, should present it all in a much more detailed way. As for the Scriptural foundation (mainly 1 Cor, Rom, Col, Eph, and Peter I and II), we can do no better for the time being than to indicate among the numerous exegetical works bearing on this still mysterious aspect of Christian faith, the major study of M. Combe, "Puissances celestes" ("Cosmic Powers,") in the Dictionnaire de la Bible-Supplement--DBS--vol. 9, col 336-381. [From 'Garabandal' Book, pages 160-161] http://whatisgarabandal.blogspot.co...:00-04:00&max-results=7&start=7&by-date=false
On Sunday we were told that the work of God was to believe in the One He sent. While I find the revelation of extra planetary intelligence fascinating and wonderful my faith in Garabandal does not depend on it. As Pope Francis says we look beyond the signs to the sender. In the context of Garabandal the One who God sent was the Mother of His Son. I believe in all the words of the Blessed Mother and I trust those to whom she appeared and spoke. Through Mary to Jesus.
MARIA SIMMA the Austrian mystic that was known for the Holy Souls in Purgatory visiting her said that we are alone in the universe. She said the souls told her that there is no intelligent life in outer space and reports of seeing aliens were of demonic nature.
That's why I am disheartened of the truthfulness of the message. As far as I understand it, it was never directly mentioned by Conchita as a direct message from Our Lady but was only overheard by one of the pilgrims during Conchita's ecstasy. Below is message posted previously: Days after, Conchita, again in ecstasy, was heard asking her Vision if these mysterious beings are like us, sinners? - "They are like men, tainted alike by sin, but also redeemed by Christ just like men," was the new astonishing answer! It sounds confusing. Who heard Conchita? Was the message translated verbatim from Our Lady? I hope Conchita can clarify this one to end my doubts about this message. But then again, the issue here is not about whether there are intelligent beings in outer space- because there are numerous encounters about ETs world-wide, I myself have witnessed and documeted at least 3 video footages of UFO's. And I cannot underestimate the power of God in creating Intelligent Beings, as He is powerful. What I cannot accept is the message of Our Lady that Extra Terrestials are like men, tainted with sins and redeemed by Christ. First, ETs can never be like men, unless they have physical bodies and human will like us. Second, tained with sin will mean having the freedom to opposed God's will. Yes, they may have ET's will and freedom to choose but remember that Christ has human will and divine will, and never an ET's will, therefore this quality doesn't entitle them for salvation because it was our human will opposing God's will that paved the way for Christ's incarnation so He can fuse again the divine will with that of human will, thus salvation can be materialized. Third, redeemed by Christ. Unless they are the descendants of Adam and Eve who suffered the consequences of the original sin, but promised by God with a redeemer then this is possible.
Glenn or Aviso could probably give us better information on whether this was something Conchita said or whether it is something that was merely hearsay by the crowds. Regarding the Church's teaching on ET's, I found something posted on EWTN to be of help here: "The Church does not have a specific teaching on extra-terrestrial life. The subject, however, is tied up with the whole question of biological evolution, about which the Church has shown great reserve (cf. Pope Pius XII, Humani generis). Can life come about by chance processes at work in the natural physical and chemical operation of the universe? If this can occur on earth, then presumably it can occur elsewhere, given the right conditions. This much can be said affirmatively, all rational embodied creatures (those with a body and a soul), wherever they are in the universe, have Christ as their Head and Redeemer (Col. 1:15-20). If intelligent life exists elsewhere, then it has a relationship with the Incarnation and Redemption. However, despite all the glib claims by agnostic scientists that intelligent life must exist somewhere else among the billions and billions of galaxies, the best models and mathematical analyses show the probably of an earth-like environment anywhere in the universe to be practically zero. The fact that there is life on Earth, therefore, is an anomaly that came about by design, not chance. Cosmologists call it the Anthropic (man) Principle, in order to get away from filling the holes in the scientific models with God. As persons and believers they may do so, in their role as scientists they may not. So, if intelligent life exists somewhere else, it will be by design, as well. And, that life will be incorporated into God's plan, as St. Paul certainly declares of everything that IS. Personally, I think we are IT (pun intended), and there is nothing in scientific discoveries to dissuade me from that opinion. But if such life should be discovered, it would fit into God's Plan in some way. The Holy Father has stated that we should not argue from science to what we believe. Physics does not exist to prove Genesis, for example. However, the witness of science to the realities to which faith also testifies is increasingly evident. Over time the way in which science and faith can be reconciled becomes clearer. Since all truth has God as its author, it is exactly what we would expect to occur. An evangelical physicist by the name of Dr. Hugh Ross has sought to reconcile contemporary science and faith. He shows how the discoveries in astronomy support the existence of a Designer and how discoveries in biology and other fields do not support evolutionary biology. While a Catholic would not always agree with his theological positions, the scientific analysis of his team of believing scientists is superb. With that caveat I can recommend his books on the scientific questions." Answered by Colin B. Donovan, STL
That's OK, I like cryptic crosswords...but what the heck are you even talking about now...? Lets back up the truck...(hold on while I get it into gear, the shift is a bit tricky in reverse)...here we go: "I can remember a post years ago from Glenn. It concerned this prediction about an event that causes disbelief in Garabandal. I dont remember his exact words and I'm not gonna try searching for them. But I think this ''event'' has something to do with another Marian apparition." So its not MarienFried Its not HeedeFried But I did find some mystical connections wrt HeedeFreid with the "ei" not the "ie"- something to do with Divine Mercy? How about throwing us a bone Mac .
Supporting this report of what Conchita was told about life outside the earth, I believe Our Lady in Medjugorje confirmed to the visionaries that there is life elsewhere in addition to the Earth. Also, Maria Valtorta (writer of the Poem of the Man God books) writes the following in her 'Notebooks 1943': I would be a very small and limited God the Creator if I had created only the Earth as an inhabited world! With a beat of my will I have brought forth worlds upon worlds from nothing and cast them as luminous fine dust into the immensity of the firmament. The Earth, about which you are so proud and fierce, is nothing but one of the bits of fine dust rotating in unboundedness, and not the biggest one. It is certainly the most corrupt one, though. Lives upon lives are teeming in the millions of worlds which are the joy of your gaze on peaceful nights, and the perfection of God will appear to you when, with the intellectual sight of your spirits rejoined to God, you are able to see the wonders of those worlds.
When the children at Medjugorje asked Our Lady about "ET's, she answered, That is not for you to know now. http://www.medjugorje.com/medjugorj...ges/?q=That+is+not+for+you+to+know&mainform=1
Thank you, hope. I stand corrected although I note that Our Lady in her reply does not deny the existence of other intelligent life out there.
You will have to ask Glenn . He is the one who knows the story of the event which will cause doubt. And yes it regards another Marian apparition.
I will not be presumptuous as to infer, comment on the said revelation of Garabandal on Extraterrestrial life as I have not acquainted - committed myself to it to the degree as some good souls. However in general, on the subject of life elsewhere, it seems to me to be quite comprehensible, considering the universe is enormous in scale, and God is supremely, incomprehensible intelligent, and thus without restriction - could at His will create other life elsewhere, as He has done here in abundance. God bless!
No life with souls...maybe amebas but our current world is based on humans and angels. The great mystery of God. Now can bad angels manipulate the solar system? I think they can. Brother al
Why post a tantalising half-contribution then back out wanting someone else to takeover what you don't finish? You know you want to. Come on Mac, you started this - I'm sure you can muster the "courage of your contributions". If its a squib instead of a bang that's OK, you're amongst friends .
Curiously I just came across this video interview with Conchita on MOG. Conchita is translated as saying that the alleged "prophecy" wrt Joey occurred at Garabandal on 19th March, 1963 (around the 1:05 min mark). In fact it was 1964 as the above letter and other sources testify. (It is not clear if this historical error came from the translator or from Conchita's recollection herself). Interestingly Conchita is translated as saying it came from "God" rather than from Our Lady. (I suppose if she actually used the Spanish words for "from heaven" then that would explain this translation discrepancy). This is not to say there is no truth here, far from it, but only to demonstrate the importance of a somewhat "critical" (as in analytical) approach to sources. Translations, the passage of time, poor recollection, ambiguity, nervousness etc ... all these things so easily distort the original message delivered to us to varying degrees. Heaven appears to allow this normal "static" in a fallen world despite the importance of its messages. It seems we are to use the wits God gave us, test spirits and be neither too fast (nor too slow) to believe. All very difficult!
It seems, thankfully, we need not worry that The Event that causes Disbelief will have anything to do with Conchita. Apparently Conchita herself stated it would occur after the miracle is announced but before the Miracle itself. Though I cannot yet find the source of this statement.
It's not about whether Extra-terrestial beings exist or not, for it is not only possible but because of a handful of people encountering such, myself included, will confirm Garabandal message about its existence as plausible. However, the issue here is about the alleged message received by Conchita saying that Extra Terrestials "are like men, tainted alike by sin, but also redeemed by Christ just like men." Can someone at least try to explain how salvation is offered to such Extraterrestials through Christ? How can they be like men? Let us say extra terrestials are like us, possessing physical body, soul and an ET's will, and in the course of their existence committed sins by opposing God's will, forgiveness can only be possible through another incanation of Christ in order to save them. It may also mean another Mary-like ET and so on...... This is not only confusing but totally uncatholic.
