Garabandal Objections: "closed till after the Feast of Assumption"

Well Padraig...its after the Feast of Assumption and the board members obediently did just as you requested we do. So with your implied permission in mind. I dare breach the subject once again.
Since the death of Joey I had to take a hard look at some facts and failed prophecies. I can honestly say that I am no longer a full hearted believer in Garabandal. After the failed prophecy of Joeys "new eyes"... I think it's only proper and wise to re-evaluate Garabandal. God has given us a mind...and the gift of reason. It is reasonable to me... that failed prophecies would denote a lack of credibility. Can I circumvent this credibility problem with blind faith or with "dog chasing his tail" logic? I have chosen not to do that...it would be for me a form of dishonest discernment.
Having said that...I would never condemn Garabandal because the Church has not condemned Garabandal. I just accept that Garabandal may never be settled in my life time and will simply leave it to itself.

 

Timothius722, I completely understand your logic and concerns over the passing of Joey in relation to the prophecies. I hesitate to used the word " failed" because the "Warning & Miracle" ,have not taken place yet. Until they do ( and quite possibly the answer will be provided at the Miracle, I have to leave that" door of belief " open, until God closes it. ) IF, those events "failed " to happen ,then yes you have an air tight argument.
The funny thing lately is his death has created a line in the sand of believers. For the most part , there are those who firmly believe (maybe more than ever ), and those who obviously do not anymore.
My other Garabandal page on facebook has shocked even me. In July I only had 2000 members, now it is climbing to nearly 6000 !
I think it is prudent to withhold final judgment (as the Vatican has , since they know the date of the Miracle ) ,until a Church ruling. God's ways are not always our ways,and there might be a big surprise instore for all. I guess we wait and see.

 

I'm sure Joey is "seeing" with his "new eyes" now! Remember - there is no time with God.

 

The prophecy given to the WORLD by the Virgin at Garabandal has not "failed". It has not happened yet. The virgin giving private revelation to Conchita about another person (not meant for the world) that just happened to be shared with the world by Joey's consent, is really another matter. Yes there could have been a mistake in Conchita's interpretation of what was meant, and remember she was a child at the time. But the events for the world given at Garabandal are still about to happen. These events were not just given to the girls at Garabandal, but also to Saint Faustina and others.

 

As Glenn says, "I think it is prudent to withhold final judgement" until the Church makes a final ruling. This goes both ways. NOBODY can claim that it IS in fact valid except the Church, nobody.

 

Thank you Glenn. All too often, what are called failed prophecies are just our own failed expectations of what we thought they meant. Even Jesus' disciples had some concerns about whether He was the Messiah, because it was written that Elijah would come first. And so he had - as John the Baptist had come in the spirit of Elijah with bold, unyielding integrity. But in our childlike minds, many insisted on seeing Elijah come in the sky, fiery chariot and all. All the Jews expected the Messiah to be a political and military leader who would overthrow the Romans in this world. Even the Baptist, who recognized Jesus before he was born, sent from prison to ask if He was the that was sent or should they look for another.

I occasionally get in disputes about prophecies I believe because I am not terribly persuaded by the juvenile explanations for them. And here is the danger: if you get vested in your own interpretation of a prophecy rather than the prophecy itself, you can entirely miss it when it comes. And when it does not come as you expect, you might lose faith altogether. It is why I hammer so hard on the simple way of the next right step and being a sign of hope.

By the way, I have long believed in the authenticity of Garabandal - and still do. I have also long believed that every interpretation I have ever heard of it is almost hopelessly muddled. So when you think a prophecy has failed, it might just be your expectations that have failed. Thank you, Glenn, for not being shaken by the failed expectations of many.

 

If I had remembered reading correctly, I thought that Joey was promised new eyes "on the day of the Miracle." That would indicate to me that, on the day of the Miracle, Joey will be resurrected and will indeed be present with new eyes. He would not have new eyes now because we will not exist physically in Heaven until after the Last Judgement, when our souls will be reunited with our glorified body, but a public resurrection is surely not out of the question and would seem to me the only way the prophecy can be fulfilled. Public resurrections used to be quite common in the annals of Church history, and many of the Saints down through the ages invoked these miracles. Why should it be any different on the day of the Miracle?

 

A quick note...during her captivity, St. Joan of Arc excitedly told some visitors (yes, she was allowed a few) that she had been shown that she would be set free and even told the day - which she shared with them and they reported back to the French Army. She was, indeed, set free on the very day she had been told. It was the day she was burned at the stake.

 

The prophecy about Joey simply did not happen. What the Virgin said to Conchita is that Joey would see again the they of the miracle (volverá a ver) and no that he would have new eyes by the day of the miracle. The fact that he will see again the day of the miracle rules out seeing presently with new "spiritual eyes". The only possible interpretation for those that still believe is the resurrection of Joey the day of the miracle to see with his own eyes. Sorry but in Spanish there is no other way to interpret this.
Ok, one can also say that Conchita did not understand the real message and that she did not transmit it properly. But then what should we believe?

 

Perhaps she did transmit it properly. Perhaps it was us - and even Conchita - who added our own interpretations to the original transmission by assuming that Joey would be alive when he received his new eyes. Perhaps we should have considered the possibility that Joey would die before the Miracle and that his new eyes would coincide with his miraculous resurrection - and that such a possibility would not invalidate the original transmission of the prophecy.

For those who would say that a public resurrection sounds fantastic I would simply reply: but the Warning and Miracle sounds much more fantastic. Why discount one miracle at the expense of other equally miraculous events?

 

I am sticking with Garabandal for many reasons, not the least of them being supported by St. Padre Pio, St. Pope John Paul, St. Mother Teresa, and saint to be Conchita. Seems to me the nay sayers are caught up in the events surrounding Garabandal and not the message. This is all I will say, because it does us no good to argue as this is not in the spirit of Christ. For those who believe it is true, nothing will shake us. For those that don't nothing short of the Miracle will convince them. Peace.

 

Tim,

Credibility is extremely important to me, also, especially in regard to prophecy. The confusion surrounding Joey's new eyes gives me pause and creates a wait-and-see attitude within me. But credibility is founded on other factors, too. The most important one for me is the humility of Our Lady. At Garabandal, she instructed the children to obey the bishop and parents even if what they demanded was at odds with her requests.

JoeJerk is clever, but I believe it is impossible for him to feign humility; he enjoys exulting himself too much. This and other positive supernatural evidence tips the balance in the other direction. As others have stated, time will surely tell.

Forward in the Refuge of the Immaculate Heart!

 

I just read a verse in Scripture and I can't for the life of me remember...but the Scripture said to the effect "say what you mean and mean what you say...anything else comes from the devil.
If you are told a man will receive new eyes on the day of a purported miracle...what are you to make when this prophecy fails?
Sure...you can dance around all you want...making play with words and meanings...but would Jesus do this?
I envision myself standing on the Galilean coast with Jesus and the other apostles. We are sitting around the fire...discussing what we have heard that day...a cool breeze blows the fire about. I tell them of a place called Garabandal...I ask the Master "what do you think of Garabandal"...I imagine His response might be "the wind blows where it might"...nuff said.

 

I am a bit bemused. I have been chastised more than a few times by Garabandal believers because of my occasionally blunt statements that I thought they presumed way too much in their interpretations of it - and were badly misinterpreting much of it. A few have treated me as apostate because of my rejection of most interpretations. Now I am chastised by one who believes Garabandal is a fraud as being too credulous and 'dancing around' with words. I wonder how many who might now regard me as a credulous fool not so long ago regarded me as a disbelieving apostate.

My little way is not shaken by these things. I rarely get so vested in my own interpretation of something that I become embittered when my interpretation is proven false.

Oh, how I wish everyone would adopt a little way! It keeps one nearly bereft of vanity - even if he is occasionally hot-tempered, as I am. I reiterate: prophecy is not given primarily so that we know with detail the Mind of God, but that we know when to look for a deeper spiritual reality behind certain temporal events. Look with that humility and you will not fail, even when you are deceived, for you give yourself over to Christ to carry and correct you.

 

Timothius, I understand your point ,but I disagree with your statement that "anything else comes from the devil." . Just because we don't understand something , doesn't mean it comes from the devil, that's ridiculous. If I were you ,I wouldn't use the disciples as an example. Do you really think YOU would have FULLY understood Jesus when he said " I will raise up this temple on the third day ! ". Or how about "you must eat my flesh and drink my blood ", or the concept of the Holy Spirit or the Trinity ? You can't prove the Trinity in human terms, but we take it on faith. Certain things have to be taken on faith until they are fully understood. While I can not explain what happened now, I bet you I will the day of the Miracle. IMHO.

 

Anyone who infers Garabandal has even a hint of evil knows nothing about the apparitions. How can I say this ? What is Garabandal's " message " ? Reread the 2 messages. Mary asks, if not begs us for REPENTENCE, PENNACE, CONFESSION, DAILY MASS, COMMUNION, EUCHARISTIC ADORATION,THE ROSARY, THE SCAPULAR. Countless THOUSANDS of spiritual and physical healings from "kissed medals", and conversions from those who visit Garabandal. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANY DEMONIC CAUSE ,BECAUSE THE DEVIL HATES ALL THESE THINGS CAN NOT BENEFIT FROM ANY OF THEM.

 

I'm sorry Charlie...I'm quite the simpleton and mind is frayed by infinite hours of dronish labor. I can only imagine how our conversations sounds to Jesus. I do know that in a marriage...a man and wife can work side by side in quiet solitude...already anticipating what the other thinks. The prayer of a friend is mere presence. The power of presence is very powerful. A shared experience is truly an experience. I pity a man who goes it alone...I pray for you Charles to come around the campfire.

 

Calm down Glenn...put your pistols in your holder...take a deep breath...its OK...its just private revelation. Can you discuss...I think it was Lora Loli's ( I'm sure I butchered her name) testimony that she personally did not believe all of what happened at Garabandal was true. What part did she actually have a problem with.
I'm not on a witch hunt and I appreciate all you have done. Brother its OK!

 

Timothius, I can not calm down, because this is not "just private revelation". this is my life's mission from our Blessed Mother. She has orchestrated my blessed life with several miraculous healings, and to meet Saint John Paul II, to live near and work with and become friends with Joey Lomangino, and Conchita and their families. TO LIVE ON A BLOCK THAT PADRE PIO WALKED ON !!! (TRUE STORY ). THIS IS NO ACCIDENT . So Brother, you stay calm, I have my apostolate work to do , and I CAN NOT EASE UP FOR A MINUTE, because I don't have to answer to you someday, I have to look our Heavenly Mother in the eye, who has entrusted me this apostolate blessing and say, " I don't know why you picked me,but I did the very best I could, everyday ".

 

I don't understand the point of this discussion or really the motive behind, the discussion. Is the motive just to argue against or for? Why? Is the thought that in some way you are protecting people from damnation? Timothius I have less issue with your motive because at least you discuss other topics and issues on MOG but Jose I just went back and looked at every comment you have made in the last year and all of them were to argue against either Garabandal, Medj, miracles, or a few other potential valid visionaries or spiritual phenom so again I ask why and what is the motive here. It seems like the motive to me is to discredit, argue and create angst and turmoil among the membership here and that I am not thrilled with because this is a wonderful, loving, faith filled family so why always be so negative and argumentative. What is the point?