Milleniarism, postmillenialism, premillenialism, amillenialism and Catholic Cathechism

Why do you suggest this is my invention? This is exactly how St John wrote it. In Revelation, it says the beast and the false prophet "were thrown alive into the fiery pool burning with sulfur." (Rev 19:20) This is followed by the "thousand year" reign. Afterward, Satan is loosed when Gog and Magog rise against the Church. Not much is said in Scripture about that final upheaval. But it does say that the Devil is at that point "thrown into the pool of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were." (Rev 20:10).The beast and the false prophet, and Gog and Magog are two different rebellions. This is not my opinion, but how the Church Fathers interpreted these passages:

Scripture says: ‘And God rested upon the seventh day from all His works’… And in six days created things were completed; it is evident, therefore, that they will come to an end at the sixth thousand year… But when The Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from Heaven in the clouds… sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day… These are to take place in the times of the kingdom, that is, upon the seventh day… the true Sabbath of the righteous. —St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Church Father (140–202 A.D.); Adversus Haereses, Irenaeus of Lyons, V.33.3.4, The Fathers of the Church, CIMA Publishing Co.​

‘And He rested on the seventh day.’ This means: when His Son will come and destroy the time of the lawless one and judge the godless, and change the sun and the moon and the stars—then He shall indeed rest on the Seventh day… —Letter of Barnabas, written by a second century Apostolic Father​

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But He, when He shall have destroyed unrighteousness, and executed His great judgment, and shall have recalled to life the righteous, who have lived from the beginning, will be engaged among men a thousand years, and will rule them with most just command. —Caecilius Firmianus Lactantius (250-317 A.D.; Ecclesiastical writer), The Divine Institutes, Vol 7, Ch. 24​

Before the end of the thousand years the devil shall be loosed afresh and shall assemble all the pagan nations to make war against the holy city… “Then the last anger of God shall come upon the nations, and shall utterly destroy them” and the world shall go down in a great conflagration. —4th century Ecclesiastical writer, Lactantius, “The Divine Institutes”, The ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol 7, p. 211​

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As far as the antichrist is concerned, we have seen that in the New Testament he always assumes the lineaments of contemporary history. He cannot be restricted to any single individual. One and the same he wears many masks in each generation. —Cardinal Ratzinger (POPE BENEDICT XVI), Dogmatic Theology, Eschatology 9, Johann Auer and Joseph Ratzinger, 1988, p. 199-200; cf (1 Jn 2:18; 4:3) ​

 

Ponder this from Pope Benedict Chrism Mass homily 2012. Notice what he says about the authentic teachings found in the Vatcan II documents and the CCC as well as private theories:
The Year of Faith, commemorating the opening of the Second Vatican Council fifty years ago, should provide us with an occasion to proclaim the message of faith with new enthusiasm and new joy. We find it of course first and foremost in sacred Scripture, which we can never read and ponder enough. Yet at the same time we all experience the need for help in accurately expounding it in the present day, if it is truly to touch our hearts. This help we find first of all in the words of the teaching Church: the texts of the Second Vatican Council and the Catechism of the Catholic Church are essential tools which serve as an authentic guide to what the Church believes on the basis of God’s word. And of course this also includes the whole wealth of documents given to us by Pope John Paul II, still far from being fully explored.

All our preaching must measure itself against the saying of Jesus Christ: “My teaching is not mine” (Jn 7:16). We preach not private theories and opinions, but the faith of the Church, whose servants we are.

 

So you do not accept the Pope is the correct interpreter of when the Anrtichrist comes? Because he said in No 2008 he comes directly before the last judgemnet and its the same in the Catechism. Please just give a non evaqsive answer. Do you or do you not?

 

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Stephen, how do you interpret this?​

 

This is better than a Pay-Per-View event and the best part is that it is free.

 

From your reply above we are finally getting to the crux of the problem .As ive said all along you are not prepared to submit to the teaching authority of the Pope in matters of faith and morals. You are doing as the protestants do and disregarding his unique role. Pope Benedict said its a teaching church the texts of the Second Vatican Council and the Catechism of the Catholic Church are essential tools which serve as an authentic guide to what the Church believes on the basis of God’s word" As you place the Antichrist somewhere other than the end of the world, you are in complete opposition to the "authentic guide to what the Church believes on the basis of God's word"
Mark thats is a serious problem you have there

 

Mark, Lactantius was espousing a heretical view in that his writings preach a bodily reign of Christ-its just that Fr Iannuzzi and Mark dont post those bits

 

No, that's not what he said. And I quote from your book, that we need to avoid...

....the temptation to predict substantial changes in it in the life of society as a whole and of every individual. —POPE JOHN PAUL II, National Conference of Bishops, January 29th, 1996; www.vatican.va​

No, not everyone will experience perhaps what the mystics are speaking of, and others will experience to one degree or another. That is the case now, no?

John Paul II did speak of a...

…“new and divine” holiness with which the Holy Spirit wishes to enrich Christians at the dawn of the third millennium, in order to make Christ the heart of the world. —POPE JOHN PAUL II, L’Osservatore Romano, English Edition, July 9th, 1997​

Now, you can't say this "new and divine holiness" is the state of Heaven because John Paul II already said that the third millennium will not be a state of perfection. He is speaking of something else to come that will make "Christ the heart of the world." And the Magisterium has already clearly stated that, if it is to come, it will be brought about....

...not by the apparition of the person of Christ in Majesty but by the operation of those powers of sanctification which are now at work, the Holy Ghost and the Sacraments of the Church. —The Teaching of the Catholic Church: A Summary of Catholic Doctrine, London Burns Oates & Washbourne, p. 1140, from the Theological Commission of 1952, which is a Magisterial document.​

Perhaps you don't have a background in mystical theology which is more my own. That's fine. I'm not a theologian. So again, there needs to be a deep humility before all of the Church's revelation so as to avoid rash judgments and false assumptions. This is why I, like you, have been very painstaking in trying to get out of the way and let Sacred Tradition speak, not me. This is why I said to you that the lack of doctrinal development of the Church Fathers is an unfortunate omission in your book if you are going to address millenarianism.

 

Jimmy,
I am half asleep it nearly 2 am

 

Lactanius is a chialist - what is there to interpret?


1. On pp. 49-53 the author presents selected passages from chapters 14 and 24 of the seventh book of The Divine Institutes of Lactantius in support of a forthcoming ‘era of peace’, saying that they provide “what is perhaps the finest exposition on the universal era of peace in early tradition”(p.51). In the same breath, the author assures us that Lactantius is not describing a heretical millenarian ‘era of peace’, since his expression “‘He [Christ] will be engaged among men a thousand years’ is a far cry from the millenarian vision, which teaches that Christ will come visibly and physically to reign on earth within human history”(p.51). However, in chapter 19 of The Divine Institutes, book VII, Lactantius clearly speaks about a physical descent of Christ, leading to the defeat of the antichrist and his armies: “For He is the Deliverer, and Judge, and Avenger, and King, and God, whom we call Christ, who before He descends will give this sign: There shall suddenly fall from heaven a sword, that the righteous may know that the leader of the sacred warfare is about to descend, and He shall descend with a company of angels to the middle of the earth…”. If there is still some doubt about the physicality of this descent, it is removed in the following passage, where Christ, the king, is represented as being physically present at a certain place: “But other princes also and tyrants who have harassed the world, together with him [the antichrist], shall be led in chains to the king; and he shall rebuke them, and reprove them, and upbraid them with their crimes, and condemn them, and consign them to deserved tortures”. In the context of this physical description of Christ’s descent and presence on earth, the expression about Christ “engaged among men a thousand years” must be interpreted physically. Another strongly millenarian feature of ‘The Divine Institutes’ is the anticipation of the physical resurrection of the righteous at the beginning of this millennium, “Therefore they will not be born again, which is impossible, but they will rise again, and be clothed by God with bodies, and will remember their former life, and all its actions…”(book VII, ch. 23). In summary, Lactantius, in his Divine Institutes, is indeed advancing a form of millennialism that was later rejected by the Church, and is called ‘historic premillennialism’ by modern scholars.

 

Oh c'mon Stephen...you guys are on a roll...Slam down some coffee...Round 9...Ding Ding Ding!!!

 

A 16 ounce bottle of Mountain Dew will keep you awake for atleast another 2 hours.

 

American continent guys where it is the latest 9 pm in their best charitable mood

 

Stephen,

Well said. I couldn't agree more. You are correct, private revelation adds nothing to the Deposit of the Faith. That is precisely why Church Approved Private Revelation like Fatima and Our Lady of All Nations should be taken seriously. Both of these private revelations speak of a coming period of peace within history. And neither of these Church approved revelations add anything to the Deposit of the Faith. They only confirm explicitly what the OT Prophets, NT Authors, Church Fathers, Writers, Popes, Saints and Mystics have been saying with one voice, implicitly and sometimes explicilty.

But the fact remains: the Church has not yet ruled definitively on this matter. Your interpretation may be right Stephen and I respect your position.

I simply feel that the weight of the evidence favors the interpretation proffered by Rev. Iannuzzi.

 

come on Mark,
I need to go to bed, Just answer that last point please. Do you accept the pope's authority in regard to the Antchrist issue or not?

 

Yes it did - 1500 years ago. Condemning all the forms of millennialism. Not even mentioning abut it in Catechism, or in the Creed or anywhere else in the Church documents - it's a done deal - get used to it

 

Does everyone else have that sense of silent expectation like waiting for the final answer on who wants to be a millionare?

 

he won't.

there is going to be the one hundred fifty fourth time of reposting of the 1990 words of Ratzinger - which can not be found anywhere to vet the context and see the question - and pushing the same talking points ( with twisted quotes) again and again and again.
It looks like he did not even know that Lactanius was a chalist

 

If you are asking me, I accept the Pope's word on the anti-christ. However, before I make a judgement towards it, I would carefully try to understand his intentions and put it all into context.