Vatican hosting Fauci, Chelsea Clinton, Pfizer CEO, Big Tech oligarchs at ‘health’ conference

"Saint Paul commands us to obey all superiors, even those who are bad. Our Blessed Saviour, His Virgin Mother, and Saint Joseph have taught us this kind of obedience in the journey they took from Nazareth to Bethlehem, when Caesar published an edict that his subjects should repair to the place of their nativity to be enrolled. They complied with this order with the most affectionate obedience, though the Emperor was a pagan and an idolator, so desirous was Our Lord of showing us that we should never regard the persons of those who command, provided they be invested with sufficient authority.”
--Saint Francis of Sales, Doctor of the Church

"Learn to obey, you who are but dust! Learn to humble yourself, you who are but earth and clay, and bow down under the foot of every man! Learn to break your own will, to submit to all subjection! Be zealous against yourself! Allow no pride to dwell in you, but prove yourself so humble and lowly that all may walk over you and trample upon you as dust in the streets!"
--Imitation of Christ

"Naturally we all have an inclination to command, and a great aversion to obey; and yet it is certain that it is more for our good to obey than to command; hence perfect souls have always had a great affection for obedience, and have found all their joy and comfort in it.”
--Saint Francis of Sales, Doctor of the Church

”The more we see that any action springs not from the motive of obedience, the more evident is it that it is a temptation of the enemy; for when God sends an inspiration, the very first effect of it is to infuse a spirit of docility.”
--Saint Teresa of Avila, Doctor of the Church

"He who always acts under obedience may be assured that he will not have to give an account of his actions to God.”
--Saint Philip Neri

 

We have an obligation to obey in all things but sin.

 

Wonderful! Fr Ripperger says its a good place to start in relearning the real faith because modernism has so toxified the Church that we can't escape it if we aren't armed with the truth.

 

Wonderful quotes Purple Flower.

 

Yes he's the Pope so we must obey. We also owe him the respect of office.

I'm not saying these things are easy, but then anything worthwhile is never easy.

I found a lot of peace from the Serenity Prayer applied in this situation.

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;
enjoying one moment at a time;
accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
that I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
forever in the next.
Amen.

reinhold niebuhr (1892-1971)

We are only very humble laypeople and can only change things through prayer. But prayer is the most powerful thing of all.

If we were Cardinals or Bishops thing might be different.

Thinking and talking about these things too much is a bit like being a pig wallowing in the mire. No good putting ourselves through pain with no real outcome.

So I pray for the Holy Father and the folks in the Vatican. Hopefully if I leave them alone they'll leave me alone.

 

Signed Beth. Thank you

 

Yes, and I do subject myself to their authority. That's quite different from saying I owe obedience to the Pope (and bishops). I owe obedience to the Magesterium, not everything the Pope says and does, or what a bishop says and does, when they are not speaking/teaching ex cathedra it's their personal opinion and I owe NO obedience to it.

From reading the forum, I see there's several of you, who by no coincidence are quite vocal on this thread, who turn a deaf ear and belittle many current ongoing apparitions where the constant drum beat from heaven is telling us to "follow the TRUE Magesterium". Let's assume that in this clear worldwide moral and societal crisis we're in, that our Blessed Mother and other heavenly beings, are warning us of what is upon us...that's logical to me that they would be helping us through various prophets--this has always been so, heaven does not abandon us completely to the wolves, and now, as in the past, they guide us. They're guiding us currently, through messages some of you shun, to only follow the TRUE Magesterium...why are warning of this over and over? Doesn't take a doctor of the Church to figure that one out, but let's go to the doctors of the Church on this exact point of blind obedience to everything a bishop or Pope says:

St. Thomas Aquinas, the greatest doctor of the church and my patron Saint, taught the truth of the matter. You may find this helpful: https://onepeterfive.com/disobey-pope/

Here's some helpful excerpts:

"St. Thomas Aquinas concurs that even an inferior may, and sometimes ought to admonish his superior:

f there was a question of a danger for the Faith, the superiors would have to be rebuked by their inferiors, even in public.” (1)

Aquinas, along with many of the theologians quoted below, makes clear that any such public resistance is directed toward a prelate’s exercise of authority, as Paul did to Peter (2) if there is a danger to the faith (3). As licit resistance, it does not constitute “judging” the Pope."

and:

"Francisco Suarez (1548–1617) of the School of Salamanca, a Jesuit priest and theologian, considered by many to be one of the greatest Scholastics after St. Thomas Aquinas himself, wrote:

If the Pope lays down an order contrary to right customs one does not have to obey him; if he tries to do something manifestly opposed to justice and to the common good, it would be licit to resist him; if he attacks by force, he could be repelled by force, with the moderation characteristic of a good defense. (5)"

and more recently, Cardinal Burke:

"More recently, Raymond Cardinal Burke, canon lawyer, stated: “[There are even times when a] Pope must, as a duty, be disobeyed.”

and Father Ripperger:
"
Fr. Chad Ripperger, formerly of the FSSP and now of the Society of the Most Sorrowful Mother/Doloran Fathers, concurs with the theologians above that disobedience to the pope can be permitted provided that certain conditions are met:

St. Thomas, other moralists, and even the Church Herself give certain conditions under which we should not execute the command of a superior. And this would apply to bishops, and in some rare cases, even the pope. We are bound to obey all of their legitimate commands[.] …

The first condition that would exempt us from obedience is if they command something that is contrary to the Natural Law or the Divine Positive Law, that is, if the command is sinful, one is bound not to obey, in fact, one is forbidden to obey.

Second, if the command is clearly imprudent, and this follows from the fact that imprudence is a sin[.] … This can only be done when has a very clear grasp of all of the circumstances involved, otherwise the benefit of the doubt goes to one’s superior.

Third, the Church Herself says in the code of Canon Law that if the circumstances, under which the command was given, make the execution of the command impossible, the person should go back to the superior and ask what he is to do.

Fourth, if the superior commands you to do something which is contrary to sustenance of life, for example, your superiors cannot command you to fast to the point of starving to death.

Fifth, if the command is excessively onerous, one is not bound to obey. For example, if your superior commanded you to live on four hours of sleep at night[.] …

Sixth, if the command does not come from someone with jurisdiction[.] …

Seventh, your superiors cannot command you to do something spiritually or morally harmful. For example, if your superior commanded a young male to take a piano-playing job in a brothel. (13)"

So no,

 

Yes Pope Paul VI revealed that through a small crack satan had entered the Church. According to Bella Dodd (a former communist agent who worked to infiltrate the Catholic Church) this happened in the 1930s.
Bella Dodd testified before the U.S. House Committee in 1953 that in the U.S. alone, they put 1100 of their men into the priesthood in order to destroy the Church from within!

 

I do not listen to what he says I watch what he does. He has rehabilitated every liberation theologian that JP2 disciplined. I guess under the guise of who am I to judge. The vatican tells us they can't bless gay marriage but have done everything to normalize it and undercut magisterial teaching on this issue. Look at Jimmy Martin and the rest of PF's buddies. I love the 1 or 2 statements he has made about abortion but his embracing of Emma Bonino, hobnobbing with Califari, Jeffrey Sachs, shall I go on tell quite another story. I personally, not asking anyone else to believe this, find PF to be a vile human being. Sorry.

 

Thank youJosephite!

 

While this is a snipet from & for another thread, I am also horrified that so few Church leaders are widely, loudly speaking against mRNA shots; 100% life-affirming or not.

 

We all are heartbroken on many different issues.

Lord have Mercy!

 

I think I had one post on this thread before I posted Michael Lofton's video which got the response from you about "usual suspects". Hardly very vocal on a thread already with numerous posts which evidently met with your own magisterial approval. You probably didn't bother watching the video but chose instead to make a snide comment.

Evidently you also haven't read the explanation from the St. Paul Centre on when we have to obey the Pope, or perhaps you did and missed the reference to the Ordinary Magisterium. If Popes were only to be obeyed when they exercise their extraordinary magisterium (ex cathedra) then over the past 2000 years Catholics were only obliged to obey the Pope on a handful of occasions. Nobody here has advocated blind obedience to the Pope. I certainly haven't, but I think you know that and merely raised it as a red herring hoping to strengthen an extremely weak argument.

A load of unapproved self-proclaimed prophets or seers referring to the "authentic magisterium" has about as much authority as the checkout attendant at your local supermarket, especially if their authentic magisterium excludes the Pope and the Bishops in union with him. Even Martin Luther made a more convincing case than that. And we see all around us the fruits of his sanctimonious claims that his rebellion was motivated by obedience to God. "Obey the authentic Magisterium" is no more than a catch-all ploy - providing "heavenly" cover for ultra Montanist's and dissenters alike.

You quote instances where a Pope may be disobeyed but you have given no instances where the Pope has bound us to error. None of those quotes cite an instance of Pope Francis commanding anyone to commit sin. In fact, Pope Francis rarely binds anyone to anything - something I consider to be one of his major shortcomings as Pope.

 

In fact, Pope Francis rarely binds anyone to anything - something I consider to be one of his major shortcomings as Pope.

I agree with you, Dolours.

 

I have those concerns also. I agree with Archbishop Viganò about 85% of the time but sometimes he says some seemingly crazy things; they seem so to me anyway. What is this about Chelsea Clinton being a member of the Church of Satan? I can’t find anything to corroborate this. As far as I can tell, she’s a Methodist. If he doesn’t have some rock-solid evidence to verify this claim, it’s the sin of detraction to say so. Even if he has some inside knowledge from somewhere that she is, I’m pretty sure that virtually nobody else knows about it. Whether it’s true or false, mentioning such a thing undercuts his whole essay. Many people, especially if they are outside our “loop”, let’s say, when they read that roll their eyes and stop reading, concluding that this fellow Viganò (and his followers) is nuts and his arguments are not to be taken seriously. I don’t think that’s what he’s going for.

 

I don't think it's any secret that my own opinion of Pope Francis isn't very far removed from yours. He's the kind of person I would cross the street to avoid but I stop short of calling him evil. I must confess that I do so as much out of self interest as out of charity. We are obliged to look for the good in people. I see no good in what he does but I have to give him the benefit of the doubt on motive because I'm hoping that the Lord will do the same on my personal judgement day. So, don't get the impression that I'm making these comments out of a kind of self righteous spiritual superiority which is a trait I have noticed sometimes where private revelation is concerned.

We all need to beware of falling for the two major banana skins: refusal to serve and believing that disobedience will make us like God. They are manifestations of pride which leads to may other pitfalls like calumny and detraction.

I can't help but compare the current period with how things were when Jesus came to redeem us. The High Priest was in cahoots with pagan Rome - two High Priests because they had decided to share the role. The scribes and pharisees didn't practice what they preached. More than likely, they failed to correct wrong doers when it was to their advantage to turn a blind eye. Otherwise, John the Baptist wouldn't have had to risk his life by correcting King Herod. Jesus warned them all that having Abraham for their father was no guarantee of salvation but he never said that the High priest(s) or pharisees should be removed. Reading some references to the Essenes, I suppose they could have been the remnant faithful of that time. If so, the faithful were very few in number and there's no record of their having been rebellious towards the corrupt authorities.

 

Ostensibly Chelsea is a Methodist. However, I remember vaguely that several years ago she had a speaking engagement with a satanist group in New York. I say this but it is a memory that I cannot corroborate. But I agree that Archbishop Vigano says some off the wall things. Maybe I can find the link to that article.

 

It was on lifesite news.

 

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/chelsea-clinton-church-of-satan-exchange-happy-new-year-wishes

The event was a New Year wish.

If you read the whole article, it says at the end that she left her parents' Baptist Church to become a Methodist because she believes in abortion.

 

Seriously what sane person wishes the church of satan a Happy New Year?