The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Well, his silence will stop when the Amazon synod on humanism begins. He will be talking for 3 weeks. I am sure his Apostolic Exhortation that comes from this synod will have allot to say too. :cry:
     
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  2. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie


    No doubt....

    Feels like the clock is ticking........
     
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  3. Mario

    Mario Powers

    I'm sorry that your own family has witnessed the terrible outrages that were committed. :(My prayers for all who have experienced such degradation. :notworthy:May the mercy of Christ ultimately triumph!:coffee:

    O Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
     
  4. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    I am sorry also and I am offering prayers for all all who have experienced such degradation too.

    In addition, no matter what has caused this influx of migrants to Europe, the USA and some Asian countries we still have to try and protect our youth as best that we can. I don't think that God would be very happy with us if we didn't. Take for instance the sexual scandal in the Church, I think that we all agree that the bishops who were aware of certain abusers and did nothing are also to blame for letting the problems perpetuate. Iow, we still need to enforce our laws regardless of whether or not this is part of a chastisement from God. He will surely chastise us at some point if we do nothing.

    I also pray that the world starts focusing more on God and putting Him in the center of our lives as He should be. I think that we all agree that the world in general has fallen very far away from where we should be in this regard.

    Edited to add:
    I should also state that most members believe that the influx of migrants in various Christian countries was planned as a method to change our cultures and attempt to destroy our Faith. I thought about looking for both Cardinal Burke and Cardinal Sarah's statements on this but most of us here have seen them, I am sure.

    ***

    Ah, well this is certainly positive!

    upload_2019-10-1_19-16-32.png
    Oct. 1, 2019
    Conference to Promote Communion Kneeling and on the Tongue
    Saturday’s conference will take place at 6 p.m. in the conference hall of the church of Santo Spirito in Sassia, Rome.
    Edward Pentin | http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edwa...-promote-communion-kneeling-and-on-the-tongue
    VATICAN CITY — Cardinal Malcolm Ranjith will be among those contributing to a Rome conference Saturday aimed at reestablishing the rebirth of Eucharistic devotion.

    The archbishop of Colombo, Sri Lanka, and former Secretary at the Congregation for Divine Worship has sent his blessing to the conference, entitled “Every Knee Shall Bow — The Majesty and Infinite Love of Holy Communion.”

    Other contributors will be Cardinal Raymond Burke, the patron of the Sovereign Order of Malta, and Bishop Athanasius Schneider, auxiliary of Astana, Kazakhstan, who will give messages via video.

    The event, aimed at raising awareness about the way Jesus in the Eucharist is received, will especially urge greater reverence by receiving the Body of Christ kneeling and on the tongue rather than standing and in the hand.

    It comes after around 11,000 people signed an international petition to say they wanted to receive Jesus in the Eucharist in this “traditional way,” one “more suitable to express utmost devotion.”

    They asked that the possibility of receiving Holy Communion on the tongue and kneeling be guaranteed and that the distribution of the Eucharist by the laity be prohibited.

    The petition was sent as an open letter to Church authorities, asking them to act on this “legitimate request and will of the Catholic people.”

    “The Eucharist is the heart of Christianity around which all the rest shall rotate,” the petition organizers wrote, adding: “The time that the Catholic Church is living nowadays is very serious and problematic so that the question: ‘Will the Son of Man still find faith on earth when He returns?’ becomes more and more current.’”

    Among the conference speakers will be Msgr. Nicola Bux, a theologian and former consultor to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. In Sept. 27 comments to the Register, Msgr. Bux said the “crisis of faith that we are experiencing is caused by secularization, to which the clergy have contributed most, as [French philosopher] Charles Peguy wrote.

    Msgr. Bux said if a priest “first obliges a believer to stand up to receive Holy Communion, or comes to remove kneelers from the church, it means that the devil has entered the temple.” The devil, he said, “pushes priests to remove this element that recalls the First Commandment: to love the Lord your God and serve him alone!”

    Referring to what Benedict XVI called a “sort of ‘nuclear fission’” that takes place when bread and wine is turned into Christ’s real body and blood, Msgr. Bux explained how transubstantiation brings about a “process of transformation of reality, a process leading ultimately to the transfiguration of the entire world, to the point where God will be all in all.”

    Kneeling before the Holy Eucharist is therefore “the most eloquent expression” a person can make in front of the “present mystery,” said Msgr. Bux. “Divine worship has this central focus: to realize that the Lord is here and to give him importance, that is, to worship him by bringing us to our knees, as Saint Peter did at the Sea of Galilee.”

    Cases have come to light of a few priests and bishops denying Holy Communion to communicants who kneel — one of the most recent being Chilean Bishop Celestino Aos, who denied the Eucharist to at least two faithful who were kneeling to receive on Holy Thursday this year.

    Concerning Holy Communion in the hand, the petition organizers wrote that it was never instructed by the Second Vatican Council, even though it is often construed as coming from it. They also stressed that it was a choice but never an obligation that could be imposed.

    Msgr. Bux said Holy Communion in the hand was an “indult extracted from Paul VI which has become customary, and even the rule, justified also through the assumption that the Lord, at the Last Supper, gave Communion in the hands of the Apostles.

    “On the contrary, the very words Jesus spoke in reference to the traitor — ‘It is the one to whom I hand the morsel after I have dipped it’ — describe the friendly Semitic use of putting in the mouth what was considered delectable.”

    Msgr. Bux added: “As for Communion standing, receiving in the hand or, or abusing it by taking it away, we would like to show that we are adults before God but not, as Peter writes, newborns in need of the spiritual milk that is Eucharistic Sacrament.”

    Saturday’s conference, organized by the lay group ‘United With Jesus in the Eucharist Through the Most Holy Hands of Mary,’ will take place at 6 p.m., Oct. 5, in the conference hall of the church of Santo Spirito in Sassia, Rome.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
  5. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    I don't know where you got the impression that I think nobody is right but me. I have relatives who have been on the receiving end of the bad behaviour of foreigners including Romanians, Pakistanis and Africans. Other than one case of a flasher, there was nothing sexual about the bad behaviour. There are also decent, hard working and honest people from similar backgrounds living here. I don't know where you got the notion that I'm disregarding rape, murder, theft, etc.

    What I was trying to get across to you was that there is political consensus in Europe to import young blood to keep wages low and prop up the social system, and the powers that be will use every trick in the book to marginalise and demonise anyone opposed to that consensus. Europe needs that young blood because it turned it's back on God. Christianity - more particuarly Catholicism - was accused of retarding countries' growth by restricting people to lifelong marriage and pro-creative sex. Religion was blamed for restricting people's freedom. All people needed for happiness was as much sterile sex as they wanted without any shaming or blaming. They got it, and before long babies were no longer a gift from God but were unwanted accidents - clumps of cells to be disposed of. And, of course, the same "progressive, free thinkers" blamed all wars on religion particularly Christianity because that was Europe's predominant religion. The narrative was that we needed Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims and anyone non-Christian to open our minds to the wonders of diversity. That the potential young blood happened to be from poor countries where those religions predominated was conveniently overlooked lest European citizens realised that the price to be paid for their free, sterile sex is the death of their culture.

    Given the Irish love affair with the EU and our political leaders' lapdog worship of all things European, you're spitting in the wind if you think that a UKIP type movement will happen or could have any success here. I gave up paying attention to the news when I realised that it's all spin and propaganda and only see news if I'm visiting someone who has the news on when I'm there. The news I have seen merely confirms to me that so-called European democracy is a sham. Don't think for a minute that the Catholics sitting beside you in the pew at Sunday Mass who voted for abortion and gay marriage will vote against the globalist agenda. Even if they did, you only have to look at the post-Brexit referendum shenanigans to get an idea of what difference it would make.

    I'm sorry if you got the impression that I didn't believe or understand your genuine concerns. And I certainly wasn't casting any aspersions on your children. I'm afraid that to reverse the trend here we need a great many more families like yours and we just don't have enough of them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2019
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  6. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I’m sorry for your woes, child of Mary. In this vale of tears, it seems no one is exempt. We are all carrying heavy crosses at this time, and we try to share charitably. We are all only human.
    We fail when we point the finger at each other.
     
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  7. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

    Amen to that!
     
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  8. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    I'm frustrated that Child of Mary got the impression that I was dismissing her concerns and had no sympathy for the victims of all those crimes. I'm sure that we all know people who have been on the receiving end of the resentment and disdain which more than a few immigrants harbour towards us. Most of the economic migrants are also victims of the globalists' agenda. We're all like frogs being brought to the boil. Sometimes it suits the globalists to stir up racial or religious hatred because it can be a convenient distraction. Isn't that what happened in Rotherham - local disquiet was brushed off as racism, islamophobia or xenophobia until things got so bad it couldn't be hushed up any more?

    The next stage of the agenda seems to be the indoctrination of children in schools and to lower the voting age. I expect that the young Muslim girl - Malala? and the Swedish girl Greta were deliberately touted as examples of a fresh, youthful maturity which can be trusted. Why, then shouldn't they get to vote? Wasn't the voting age reduced to 15 for Scotland's independence referendum? I read elsewhere a comment from someone who drew attention to Isaiah, Chapter 3:

    1 Now the Lord Yahweh Sabaoth is about to deprive Jerusalem and Judah of resources and provisions -- all reserves of food, all reserves of water-
    2 of hero, warrior, judge, prophet, diviner, elder,
    3 captain, dignitary, counsellor, architect, soothsayer.
    4 'I shall give them boys for princes, raw lads to rule over them.'
    5 People will be ill-treated by one another, each by his neighbour; the young will insult the aged, and the low, the respected.
    6 Yes, a man will catch hold of his brother in their father's house, to say, 'You have a cloak, so you be leader, and rule this heap of ruins.'
    7 And, that day, the other will protest, 'I am no healer; in my house there is neither food nor clothing; do not make me leader of the people.'
    8 For Jerusalem has collapsed and Judah has fallen, because their words and deeds affront Yahweh and insult his glorious gaze.
    9 Their complacency bears witness against them, they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not conceal it, all the worse for them, for they have hatched their own downfall.
    10 Say, 'Blessed the upright, for he will feed on the fruit of his deeds;
    11 woe to the wicked, it will go ill with him, for he will be treated as his actions deserve.'
    12 O my people, their oppressors pillage them and extortioners rule over them! O my people, your rulers mislead you and efface the paths you ought to follow!
    ​
    We Christians have a tendency to make the same mistakes as the ancient Israelites, bringing the same kind of punishment upon ourselves. We Europeans have hatched our own downfall.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2019
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  9. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Great post, Dolours. The Scripture from Isaiah is right for this time.
    Wow, uncanny.
     
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  10. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Dolours, I absolutely understand the point that you have been making and have made again here.

    You are correct when you state, "We're all like frogs being brought to the boil."

    I often think of Nick Sandmann and what was done to him but when he was interviewed he was an example to all of us and I felt so proud that this young man is Catholic. In particular he states, "It's a Catholic school and they don't tolerate racism." I feel that I raised my kids the same way and I can only pray that if they were put in the position that this young man was that they would react the same way. But the point that I am trying to make and I think that you were making also in your posts is that we are being pushed (or boiled, if you prefer) and we need to be very careful about how we react to it but none of this is easy especially for those who have loved ones who were/are in harms way.

    Everyone here probably remembers this interview but here it is again just in case:

    [Go to 2:30 minute mark.]

    Imo the same modus operandi is being used over and over again, like in the Pan-Amazonian synod. Another way to think about what is occurring is we are being guilted into submission but I don't feel particularly guilty. I see through what is going on and I'm not going to assume the blame for the things that they want me to. I have to answer to God someday, not my government or any other country's government and not the pope, only to God.
     
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  11. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Thank you, Carol.
     
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  12. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Here is another article about this story, this time from a Catholic news source.

    Vatican prosecutors conduct raid on Secretariat of State offices
    [​IMG]
    St. Peter's Basilica. Credit: Bohumil Petrik/CNA.
    By Hannah Brockhaus | https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...rCXcs01jK_GcO_Sn-Ditcm1jhVjNAVbLJFLdH7_ghA4M0

    Vatican City, Oct 1, 2019 / 08:40 am (
    CNA).- Vatican prosecutors seized documents and electronic devices in a raid executed Tuesday at the offices of the most senior curial department.

    According to a statement from the Holy See press office Oct. 1, the raid was conducted at the offices of the general affairs section of the Secretariat of State. The action was authorized by the Vatican City court's Promoter of Justice, Gian Piero Milano, and Adjunct Promoter of Justice Alessandro Diddi.

    The documents and devices were taken in connection to an investigation following complaints brought last summer by the Institute for Religious Works (IOR) - commonly called the Vatican Bank - and the Office of the Auditor General concerning a series of financial transactions "carried out over time," the statement said.

    The Secretariat of State is the central governing office of the Catholic Church and the department of the Roman Curia which works most closely with the pope. It is also responsible for the governance of the Vatican City state.

    Since the promulgation of Pastor bonus, Pope John Paul II's 1988 apostolic constitution governing the organization and responsibilities of the Roman Curia, the Secretariat of State has been divided into two sections: the Section for General Affairs and the Section for Relations with States.

    The deputy, or sustituto, who must be a bishop, acts as head of the Section for General Affairs, with responsibility for the day-to-day administration of governance for Vatican City, and handles all business not assigned to other curial departments. It also provides direct daily staffing service of the pope, including overseeing the facilitation of appointments within the Roman Curia, and manages relations with all foriegn ambassadors accredited to the Holy See.

    As of November 2017, Pope Francis established a third section of the Secretariat, specifically to oversee the Vatican’s diplomatic corps, stationed around the world.

    Cardinal Pietro Parolin has been the Secretary of State since October 2013. Archbishop Edgar Peña Parra is the current substitute. He was named to the position in 2018.
     
  13. Regarding child of Mary and posts like hers, perhaps it is best to just let the person express themselves without responding negatively because being a parent of teens right now is really a high-wire act. Simply putting thoughts down in words, even if a little bit edgy, can be very helpful and even therapeutic for a parent who is stressed out. This forum, this thread, even is 700 pages full of our frustrations about how things are going. There is nothing sadder for a parent to see then their children at risk for crime, leaving the Church, getting into a bad relationship, drugs, booze, porn, accidents, suicide, etc... and sometimes a person just has to let out their frustrations even if it doesn't sit well with the group.
     
  14. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    As long as those frustrations aren’t aimed at a person with calling out.....we do not need bad behavior on the forum, but your point is well taken. I thought we already did that. It turned personal, though. I just thought it crossed the line.
    However, she removed herself. No one did it for her.
    One can always apologize. And go to Confession. And I did mention
    that everyone is carrying a heavy cross. We are all reeling from these times and events.
    I personally think that post was extremely hurtful. Almost designed to be hurtful.
    We need to pray for one another continually, that’s for sure.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
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  15. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Yes He's certainly giving them a lot of rope to hang themselves with.

    But then again if you look at the behaviour of the Religious Authorities in Jerusalem when they conspired to Crucify Jesus, God let them go right on through with the whole deal.

    So of course God being God knows exactly what He is doing here; although we can't see it from down below. We are a little like St Peter when Jesus told the Apostles He was going to die in Jerusalem. We want to shout out and say, 'No!' when we see all that is happening as they go forward to Crucify Christ anew as they put the Church on the Cross. But we know God is planning a Resurrection.

    But its natural to be impatient I suppose. But God's Ways certainly aren't ours. We just have to , Trust, Trust , Trust.

    We don't want to force Jesus to say to us as He did to St Peter, 'Get behind me Satan!'

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    That’s why they call these “hot-button” issues :D:):LOL::ROFLMAO:
     
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  17. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

     

    Attached Files:

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  18. picadillo

    picadillo Guest

    Amazing! Mr. mercy himself, he has sold his soul to the Chinese for 30 pieces of silver. It's just not American catholics he has issue with. Chinese catholics whom he has sold out, Polish catholics, Hungarian catholics, Italian catholics, babies aborted by his favorite abortionists, orthodox catholics, the list goes on and on.

    25 years ago Fr Malachi Martin told me how to discern clergy who have lost their faith: do NOT listen to what they say but watch what they do. Their ACTIONS will tell you what they believe. Padraig, case closed you are dead right. The gat6es of hell have prevailed over the catholic church (small c meaning of men). The vatican has indeed fallen.

    Pray tell me , anyone, what is the difference, minus the words, between Pope Francis and George Soros.

    Aye, the vatican is just another tool now in the arsenal of the globalists. The salt has lost its taste, only to be thrown underfoot and trampled.
     
  19. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    How true! What a great post!

    I can think of one difference: as leader of 1.3 billion Catholics around the world (not to mention non-Catholics who are influenced by his actions and words), the present Pope is in a position to cause a LOT MORE harm to souls than Mr Soros.

    As predicted at Akita and numerous other apparitions from heaven, Satan has entered the Church.

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Both Piccadillo and Blizzard have spoken true.
     
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