The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. sunburst

    sunburst Powers

  2. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    From the article;

    “Giving more importance to the adjective rather than the noun, this is not good. We are all human beings and have dignity. It does not matter who you are or how you live your life, you do not lose your dignity. There are people that prefer to select or discard people because of the adjective - these people don’t have a human heart,” Francis said.

    “He didn’t shut anybody down, he was very clear in what we said about all being God’s children, all the things you don’t normally hear. So I was in full respect of the man. I had already planned what I would do if he had said something I didn’t agree with or that would add more shame on people’s lives. I would have respectfully excused myself. I couldn’t live with myself otherwise,” he said.

    We must guard against hardening our hearts. What Pope Francis has said is the truth as much as we may not want to hear it. Honestly, as Christians how else are we to view our poor neighbor? How are we to share the Hope of Christ with a fallen world? We have to remember that the thief on the cross with a lifetime of sin was saved by recognizing the truth and professing to the world Christ's kingdom in spite of his sins but first he had to hear the words of Christ. How many have been put to death for their crimes and yet saved in the final moments of their lives by others doing the same?

    In the parable of the laborers in the vineyard Jesus tells us that there will be those that will come at the 11th hour of the working day and they will receive the same pay as those of us who have toiled all day long. Should we resent them or rejoice that they made their way into the vineyard as fellow toilers for our Lord. That is if the seed takes root.

    It is one thing to confront a mature fellow follower of Christ about a wrong in love for them but this is not that situation. It is quite another to approach those who do not know the truth and follow the world and the flesh. If we condemn others outside the church for their actions the words of Christ will never be heard. The man's pre planned response is proof of this. So how are we to witness to the world? By condemning them as the violators of God's law as was done to our Lord or by showing them that the Holy Spirit lives within us and that we truly love them? After all, were we not all condemned before hearing and professing the truth, being washed in the blood of Christ? It is our job to plant the seed. To be the sower.

    The work of Mother Theresa is a wonderful example of the charity of Christ's love and is fitting to this situation IMO. She comforted those who were discarded by the world and by those who see the poor as those of a caste condemned as sub human, seen as having no human dignity, she did not condemn them for whatever sins might have led to their deaths. She honored their God given humanity and the divine calling of being created in God's image and did everything she possibly could to show them love and mercy in their final days and hours. Baptizing many before their deaths.

    When Jesus met with the Samaritans did he launch into a condemnation of them? When he sat at the table of tax collectors and prostitutes did he refuse to eat with them, rise up and condemn their sins and uncleanliness?

    I too am a Catholic who loves that which is traditional in the Church. I attend the Latin Mass regularly. I think that in these times we have to be very careful to not raise up an idol of the law in the place of charity which has always been the lifeblood of the message of the Gospel. We all drank milk before we ate meat. I don't particularly enjoy Pope Francis's Jesuit manner but I see a real need to remind us all of the charity and love we must have for others to be followers of Christ. God has placed this man in this position of authority over us for a reason. We can recoil from him and make ourselves popes like those who have left the truth and condemn others or we can trust Jesus and have faith that his Glory will be made manifest.

    The Church will never be destroyed despite the many failings of men as Jesus has promised us. We can and should always rest assured in this promise. The church (praise GOD!) has continually been renewed by God over the course of many very difficult and seemingly hopeless situations despite the powers and principalities who have stood against it from the very beginning. Many of these situations have been seemingly made worse by the very men who are entrusted to shepherd His flock. Yet the Church remains.

    Either we have faith and trust the words Jesus has told us in the Gospel regarding HIS BRIDE or we rely on the reasoning of the flesh in a world which is ever trying to destroy faith and charity in the heart of man. Christ's yoke is sweet and burden is light.

    We must watch for these things.

    In the book of Revelation Jesus has much to say to the seven churches. If we are honest with ourselves we can see much of our own personal failings in the admonishment He gives these churches and the chastisement to do penance and return to the path he has set for us. We must do penance. Jesus does not speak in parables here, he openly tells them to return to their first charity or He will come and move their lampstand from its place.

    In the book of Mark chapter 24, Jesus warns us of the things to come before the destruction of the temple as well as the end of days and His return. He tells us that because of iniquity that the charity of many will grow cold, (how many of us no longer trust and are openly suspicious of the men set over us) he warns us that false Christs and false prophets will arise and that they will show great signs and wonders. He tells us the signs that will appear directly after the tribulation and before his coming; that the the sun shall be darkened (the Gospel of Jesus Christ) and the moon shall not give her light (the Church, the light in the darkness of this world), and the stars shall fall from heaven (many shall fall away from the church), and the powers of heaven shall be moved.

    Pope Francis, despite my not understanding the course he has set in the storm we are in is the Vicar of Christ, the Captain of this vessel which is the Catholic church, Set over us all. My prayers are with him and his work.
     
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  3. maryrose

    maryrose Powers

    I watched the program and I was touched by the Pope's response to the pilgrims especially since his response brought some of them to tears . Yes we need the truth but also the souls far from God need to know how they are God's unique creation and loved. We pray that they will get the grace to respond to God's love and move away from lifestyles unworthy of the dignity of a child of God.
    I have resolved to pray more for the Pope and to cultivate love in my heart for him. I don't understand what is happening in the church but I have to trust Jesus is in charge and everything is happening with his permissive will
     
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  4. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Amen
     
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  5. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    New Vatican document to put evangelization ahead of doctrine
    Inés San Martín | Apr 22, 2019 | ROME BUREAU CHIEF | https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2019/04/22/new-vatican-document-to-put-evangelization-ahead-of-doctrine/
    [​IMG]
    Cover of Vida Nueva's April 27 edition, on the upcoming Vatican constitution. (Credit: courtesy of Vida Nueva.)

    A new “super dicastery” on evangelization might be one of the most significant reforms of the governing structures of the Vatican, according to a new report.

    ROME - A new “super dicastery” on evangelization might be one of the most significant reforms of the governing structures of the Vatican, according to a new report.

    Spanish journalist Dario Menor Torres, writing for the weekly Vida Nueva, reveals several elements of the new Vatican constitution that has been in development for years.

    The biggest novelty in the document, called Praedicate Evangelium [“Preach the Gospel”], will be the creation of the “super dicastery” for evangelization, which will potentially be more important than the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), often called “The Supreme Congregation.”

    Having its roots in the Roman Inquisition, the doctrinal office is the oldest among the congregations of the Roman Curia, and insiders still call it the Holy Office, as it’s tasked with promulgating and defending Catholic doctrine and defending the Church from heresy.

    Today, in addition to defending doctrine, it is also tasked with judging priests who’ve been accused of sexually abusing minors, with 17 officials dedicated almost exclusively to this task.

    Another of the novelties in the new constitution is that the curia will no longer be divided into “congregations” and the less prestigious “pontifical councils;” instead all autonomous Vatican departments will be called “dicasteries,” which has already been applied to several new bodies established by Pope Francis.

    The new “super dicastery” for evangelization will result from the merging of two already existing bodies: The Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, also known as Propaganda Fidei, that is tasked with overseeing “missionary territories;” and the Pontifical Council for the Promotion of the New Evangelization, that was created in 2010 by Pope emeritus Benedict XVI to confront the rapid secularization of Western countries.

    Menor’s report is based on interviews he conducted with Indian Cardinal Oswald Gracias and Honduran Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga, both members of the pope’s Council of Cardinal Advisers, which was established at the beginning of Francis’s pontificate to help reform the Curia.

    “Pope Francis always underlines that the Church is missionary,” Maradiaga told Vida Nueva. “For this reason, it’s logical that we put in the first place the dicastery for Evangelization and not the one for the Doctrine of the Faith.”

    “This way, the pope sends a significant signal of the reform to the entire People of God,” the cardinal said.

    Gracias agreed.

    “The main point of the new Apostolic Constitution is that the mission of the Church is evangelization,” the Indian cardinal told Vida Nueva. “It puts it at the center of the Church and everything the Curia does. It will be the first dicastery. The name of the text shows that evangelization is the principal objective, ahead of anything else.”

    Crux had exclusive access to the article before this week’s edition reaches subscribers on Saturday.

    According to the report from Vida Nueva, Francis could sign the new constitution on June 29, the Solemnity of Peter and Paul. Conforming to what Gracias told Crux earlier this month, the draft of Praedicate Evangelium was sent to the world’s bishops’ conferences, heads of the Vatican’s dicasteries and other Church officials to review the document and send suggestions by the end of May.

    The plan is to compile all the suggestions, make the necessary modifications, and for the Council of Cardinals Advisers to review it again during their June 25-27 meeting.

    RELATED: New Vatican constitution will resist centralization in Rome, drafter says

    Beyond the mega-Dicastery for Evangelization, the constitution reportedly also stipulates the creation of a Dicastery for Charity and the merger of the Congregation for Catholic Education and the Pontifical Council for Culture.

    In addition, the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors, created by Francis to assist him in formulating measures the global Church can make to prevent and combat clerical sexual abuse, will become a part of the curial structure to make it “more effective.”

    Menor writes that Praedicate Evangelium places the Curia at the service of both the pope and the college of bishops.

    “As successors of the apostles, the bishops don’t have an ecclesiological position that puts them below those who work in the Roman Curia,” Maradiaga said. Hence, once the constitution is approved, a bishop from any diocese, no matter how small, will have the same hierarchical power as the prefect of a Vatican dicastery.

    Once the text is approved - which will be on a 25-year “trial period” - the Vatican dicasteries will no longer be instruments for the pope to supervise local churches, but will actually be there to serve bishops from around the world. They will no longer be a “body” in between the pontiff and the college of bishops, but an institution that serves both.

    The new dicastery for charity, that will absorb what today is known as the Office of the Papal Almoner, will come right after the Secretary of State and the Dicastery for Evangelization, as a reminder that charity is also a key element of the Catholic faith. This office will “feed” from the donations the pope receives and also by tapping into the Vatican’s central bank, the Administration of the Patrimony of the Apostolic See, or APSA. (A separate institution, the Institute for the Works of Religion, is often called the Vatican bank, but mostly serves religious orders and institutions.)

    All these reforms are a continuation of changes already implemented, like the merging of the Vatican’s media offices into the Dicastery for Communications; and the merger of most of the pontifical councils into two mega-structures: The Dicastery for Laity, Family and Life and the Dicastery for Integral Human Development.

    According to Maradiaga, Praedicate Evangelium can give back to the faithful the hope that Francis’s pontificate had generated at its start.

    “It offers to the people of God a new and brave perspective of reform in the spirt of Francis,” he said, adding that the constitution takes a lot from the Argentine pontiff’s first major texts, such as Evangelii Gaudium, Laudato Si’, and Amoris Laetitia.

    “I’m personally satisfied with the result,” Gracias told Vida Nueva. “It won’t only be a cosmetic change but it will be the impetus for a change of mentality that is already underway.”

    ***

    Edited to add:

    How Cardinal Wuerl Misled the Papal Foundation
    From Web Exclusives [First Things]
    April 12, 2019
    Wuerl’s control over the Papal Foundation’s grant-making gave him outsize influence in the Vatican, just as it had for Theodore McCarrick. Continue Reading »
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
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  6. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    Amen maryrose. I pray that as these things progress that we are going to see and hear incredible stories of conversion and graces from those who's hearts are open to the truth of the Gospel in a world adamantly pushing an agenda of hatred and death.

    [5] The sower went out to sow his seed. And as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.

    [6] And other some fell upon a rock: and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it had no moisture. [7] And other some fell among thorns, and the thorns growing up with it, choked it. [8] And other some fell upon good ground; and being sprung up, yielded fruit a hundredfold. Saying these things, he cried out: He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. [9] And his disciples asked him what this parable might be. [10] To whom he said: To you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to the rest in parables, that seeing they may not see, and hearing may not understand.

    [11] Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. [12] And they by the way side are they that hear; then the devil cometh, and taketh the word out of their heart, lest believing they should be saved. [13] Now they upon the rock, are they who when they hear, receive the word with joy: and these have no roots; for they believe for a while, and in time of temptation, they fall away. [14] And that which fell among thorns, are they who have heard, and going their way, are choked with the cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and yield no fruit. [15] But that on the good ground, are they who in a good and perfect heart, hearing the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit in patience.
     
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  7. sunburst

    sunburst Powers

    My disappointment in what Pope Francis said to this man who identifies as homosexual is this line,... It does not matter who you are or how you live your life, you do not lose your dignity
    We as followers of Christ are called to charity and with that call we can run into some difficult circumstances. The problem is when it comes to compromising with the truth.
    Would it not have been better for the Pope to tell this man
     
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  8. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Absolutely
     
  9. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Are paedophiles and people who slaughter Mass-goers dignified? What is indignity, in that case? Are we to assume dignity is a quality present in Hell?
     
  10. Eventually it was to be exposed as societal.....Benedict is right again...just what are the parameters of "dignity" within behavior....when it's targeted or weaponized against chosen "types" of victims? Can "how you live your life" ever effect that "dignity", in yourself or in one who is effected by that behavior? The BS were pretty much forced into this accommodation by societal pressure and the legal system....should authorities and groups who forced this access also be included in such lawsuits?

    Thousands of Former Boy Scout Leaders Face Child Sex Allegations; Names Expected to Be Released Tuesday

    An attorney claims the BSA has files of child abusers within their ranks, going back to the 1940s

    Alarming new claims have surfaced against the Boy Scouts of America, accusing thousands of leaders, who have since been removed of the organization, of abuse.

    The claims are expected to be revealed in detail Tuesday in New York and New Jersey and the names of nearly 200 of the accused are also expected to be released.

    Though allegations came to light Monday night, a victims' rights attorney who compiled a list of former Boy Scout leaders accused of abuse in New York held a press conference Tuesday morning to discuss the widespread pattern abuse within the scouting organization.

    The victims’ attorney, Jeff Anderson, called it a system of denial and cover-ups. He claims the Boy Scouts have files on child abusers within their ranks dating back to the 1940s.

    “The lives of the survivors and their families have been shattered and destroyed in so many ways,” Anderson said. He says the new allegations accuse more than 7,000 leaders of abuse, with more than 100 in New York.

    Anderson held a news conference Tuesday morning concerning the allegations.

    "For many, many years there's been an excavation of what are called the 'perversion files' — those are files held and hoardered at the Boy Scouts of America headquarters," Anderson said, adding that "those 'perversion files' that they've had reflect that they have removed thousands of offenders of childhood sexual abuse over the years and they've kept that in files secretly."

    Anderson said the knowledge of the files themselves is not new, as many publications and outlets have reported on them.

    However, according to Anderson, citing testimony by a professional retained by the BSA to audit the files, the number of alleged perpetrators found in the files has been disclosed and it totals 7,819, while the number of victims total 12,254.

    "That is a number not known before today or ever revealed by the Boy Scouts of America," he said.

    Anderson said his law firm managed to identify 130 former BSA leaders in New York who are found in the files that have so far been made available. Anderson said he compiled the names of the alleged abusers into what he called the "Anderson File," but said the list is incomplete.

    The BSA never released the names of the alleged perpetrators to the public or authorities, Anderson claimed.

    "The bad news is that this is far from a full disclosure," he said, adding "we had to sound the alarm."

    Bridie Farrell, a survivor of abuse and co-founder of NY Loves Kids, an organization that aims to create a safer New York by speaking out about child sexual abuse, was also present at the press conference.

    "As someone who has been talking about childhood sexual abuse, I've known of the 'perversion files' and the Boy Scouts of America problem for years now," she said. "But when I spoke with Jeff and he told me these numbers, numbers of 7,000 and 12,000, I was shocked."

    Attorneys in New Jersey also scheduled a news conference Tuesday, where they plan to release the names of 50 Boy Scout leaders who worked in the state.

    Anderson plans to file multiple lawsuits against the Boy Scouts on behalf of the victims and demands the organization hand over their files, including names of those accused of abuse.

    Although Anderson must wait to file suit because the Child Victims Act is not effective untile Aug. 14, he said he couldn't wait any longer and wanted to make the information he received public.

    The Boy Scouts of America told News 4 in a statement that they “care deeply about all victims of child sex abuse and sincerely apologize to anyone who was harmed during their time in Scouting.”

    "We believe victims, we support them, and we have paid for unlimited counseling by a provider of their choice. Nothing is more important than the safety and protection of children in Scouting and we are outraged that there have been times when individuals took advantage of our programs to abuse innocent children," the statement reads in part.

    It continues: "At no time have we ever knowingly allowed a sexual predator to work with youth, and we mandate that all leaders, volunteers and staff members nationwide immediately report any abuse allegation to law enforcement."

    https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Sex-Abuse-Boy-Scouts-of-America-Lawsuits-BSA-508934291.html






     
  11. Jo M

    Jo M Powers

    God God!
    How many parents out there are wondering if their children were victimized. So sad.
     
  12. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    This article about Cardinal Wuerl gives me great pause. What machinations!
     
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  13. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Something about this does not pass the smell test IMO. It seems to me an attempt to undermine correct theology in order to pass on more feel-good theology on steroids. I know well what this theology preaches, as I have heard it for 30 years. If you think our doctrinal teachings have been watered down in the past 50 years, wait till this new evangelization kicks in and there is no office of doctrine and faith to guide wayward cardinals, bishops and priests. I don't see this new evangelization as reaching out to bring in those not in the Church, rather it is to re-evangelize those within the church who hold on to the 'rigid' interpretations of the past 2000 years. After all, is this not the same pope who rejected proselytizing early on in his papacy?
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  14. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Sunburst,

    There is inherent dignity in every person because they have been created in the image and likeness of God. This is true for even every cute baby born in the world when they do so with original sin on their souls. So this fundamental dignity remains even for one in the state of sin. Pope Francis took a first step publicly which is filmed. Does he take the next step, not publicly, which calls the man to glorify God and repent for the sake of his salvation? The first step rings hollow if the second does not follow.

    In other words, Francis spoke of the man's fundamental dignity before God and this was good. But the how you live your life clause was definitely murky because the Catechism teaches:

    1756 It is therefore an error to judge the morality of human acts by considering only the intention that inspires them or the circumstances (environment, social pressure, duress or emergency, etc.) which supply their context. There are acts which, in and of themselves, independently of circumstances and intentions, are always gravely illicit by reason of their object; such as blasphemy and perjury, murder and adultery. One may not do evil so that good may result from it.

    Homosexual acts are also always evil even when "love" is the intention or goal. Therefore, if the Pope fails to take the second step (not necessarily publicly), we are left begging the question, "Does the Pope condone homosexual acts?"

    Thus confusion continues to fester.:(:cry:

    Safe in the Barque of Peter!
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  15. Dear Pope Francis,

    What are we supposed to evangelize?
     
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  16. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

    The pope and the communist....very disturbing:

     
  17. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie


    Sooooo Sad....

    Is anything safe?
     
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  18. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

    Now see what has happened to the Girl Scouts....horrible:

     
  19. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Fatima,

    Today I returned to Pope Francis' first encyclical, Lumen Fidei, released in 2013. In it, Francis speaks of the necessary relationship between faith, love, and truth.

    Knowledge of the truth and love


    26. This being the case, can Christian faith provide a service to the common good with regard to the right way of understanding truth? To answer this question, we need to reflect on the kind of knowledge involved in faith. Here a saying of Saint Paul can help us: "One believes with the heart" (Rom 10:10). In the Bible, the heart is the core of the human person, where all his or her different dimensions intersect: body and spirit, interiority and openness to the world and to others, intellect, will and affectivity. If the heart is capable of holding all these dimensions together, it is because it is where we become open to truth and love, where we let them touch us and deeply transform us. Faith transforms the whole person precisely to the extent that he or she becomes open to love. Through this blending of faith and love we come to see the kind of knowledge which faith entails, its power to convince and its ability to illumine our steps. Faith knows because it is tied to love, because love itself brings enlightenment. Faith’s understanding is born when we receive the immense love of God which transforms us inwardly and enables us to see reality with new eyes.


    27. The explanation of the connection between faith and certainty put forward by the philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein is well known. For Wittgenstein, believing can be compared to the experience of falling in love: it is something subjective which cannot be proposed as a truth valid for everyone.[19] Indeed, most people nowadays would not consider love as related in any way to truth. Love is seen as an experience associated with the world of fleeting emotions, no longer with truth.


    But is this an adequate description of love? Love cannot be reduced to an ephemeral emotion. True, it engages our affectivity, but in order to open it to the beloved and thus to blaze a trail leading away from self-centredness and towards another person, in order to build a lasting relationship; love aims at union with the beloved. Here we begin to see how love requires truth. Only to the extent that love is grounded in truth can it endure over time, can it transcend the passing moment and be sufficiently solid to sustain a shared journey. If love is not tied to truth, it falls prey to fickle emotions and cannot stand the test of time. True love, on the other hand, unifies all the elements of our person and becomes a new light pointing the way to a great and fulfilled life. Without truth, love is incapable of establishing a firm bond; it cannot liberate our isolated ego or redeem it from the fleeting moment in order to create life and bear fruit.


    If love needs truth, truth also needs love. Love and truth are inseparable. Without love, truth becomes cold, impersonal and oppressive for people’s day-to-day lives. The truth we seek, the truth that gives meaning to our journey through life, enlightens us whenever we are touched by love. One who loves realizes that love is an experience of truth, that it opens our eyes to see reality in a new way, in union with the beloved. In this sense, Saint Gregory the Great could write that "amor ipse notitia est", love is itself a kind of knowledge possessed of its own logic.[20] It is a relational way of viewing the world, which then becomes a form of shared knowledge, vision through the eyes of another and a shared vision of all that exists. William of Saint-Thierry, in the Middle Ages, follows this tradition when he comments on the verse of the Song of Songs where the lover says to the beloved, "Your eyes are doves" (Song 1:15).[21] The two eyes, says William, are faith-filled reason and love, which then become one in rising to the contemplation of God, when our understanding becomes "an understanding of enlightened love".[22]


    In these two sections, Pope Francis describes beautifully the necessary relationship between faith, love, and truth. But in his recent journeys to Muslim countries, his emphasis on accompaniment is so stressed, that the above is lost. The truth of the Gospel and necessity to evangelize, vaporize. What happened between 2013 with the publication of the above, and 2019? I recall an online intro to the encyclical when it was published:


    Pope Francis has released his first encyclical along with some help from Pope Benedict XVI who completed most of the draft before he resigned from the Papacy.

    Obviously, the influence of Benedict has also vaporized. The goal becomes one of walking with our Muslim brothers and not evangelizing them.:(:coffee: We rigid are left in the dust.

    Safe Under Mary's Mantle!
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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  20. Tanker

    Tanker Powers

    So very sad.

    I have actually researched and knew the connection between PP and the girl scouts for some years. I stopped supporting them and never put my daughter into Girl Scouts or my son in boy scouts. Luckily my daughter didn't really want to go to Girl scouts and then we had a discussion about it and I let he read some of my research. She is now a "cheerleader" for talking girls out of the girl scouts:D

    And I could see the way the boy scouts were headed with the SSA narrative and so I stopped supporting them. It's sad because parents put great faith in these organizations and thinking they are all about the "press" they spout off....you know, wholesome, friendly,, teaching good manners and morals, etc. We have all been asleep and lead down a path to the immoral, unknowingly.

    Stat away from the Scouts.
     
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