The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    Win Wenders is a great film maker with strong Christian under stones in his films though certainly from the progressive left minded cultural german elite. This scene of Wings of Desire with the guardian angels helping people to study in Berlin’s public library is incredibly profound and one of them most memorable in the history of cinema. Notice how only the kids can see the angels and they don’t think it is weird.



    That said, he is a man of the world, meaning of the prevail ing mentality in the world, though certainly a profound film maker. It somehow scares me that a pope receive so much praise from the world. Has in fact a pope ever in the history of the Church receive this amount of praise ?

    It also worries me that in the trailer, the language is way too horizontal - it stresses how him and us together we can change the world, with ‘love’. The Dalai Lama could say just the same. Whatever happened to the message that only God, Christ’s Love can save us?
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
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  2. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

  3. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Very insightful comment. It is the same with the New Mass, it is more about community rather than God, the priest, for instance as , 'President of the Assembly', rather than ..well... priest.

    The difficulty in much of this, 'Change the World' stuff is that it bypasses the need to change ourselves first. I was listening to Professor Jordan on this, I thought what he said was well taken. He talks about young people who want to change the world on numerous issues but cannot even tidy their bedroom. I think this is so true.

    In a spiritual way we start first with our own personal relationship with God.

    It is like the old Chinese Missionary prayer,

    'Lord change the whole World, beginning with me'.

    Professor Jordan was appearing at my old University of Queens and he had some very insightful comments to make to some young disruptive protestors concerning all this:

    He calls this , 'Easy virtue'...when we run about pointing our finger of accusation at everyone else; but never at ourselves. As in the words of Jesus, 'Take the beam out of your own eye first before taking the splinter out of your brothers'.

     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  4. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Great!
     
  5. sunburst

    sunburst Powers

    We all need to take a stand when the truth is being attacked

     
  6. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    And... Carol does it again! Thanks for a good chuckle! :LOL:
     
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  7. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    My oh my, this is beyond fake news:

    The AP has reported the Vatican admitted on Thursday that it digitally manipulated a photo sent out to media outlets to rebut critics of Pope Francis, who believe some aspects of his teaching represent a rupture with Pope Benedict’s, and with the Tradition of the Church.

    Vatican doctors photo of letter from Benedict XVI praising Pope Francis
    Catholic , Pope Benedict Xvi , Pope Francis

    VATICAN, March 14, 2018 (LifeSiteNews) — One of the world’s leading news agencies has said the Vatican breached journalistic standards by doctoring a photo of a letter from Benedict XVI praising Pope Francis. According to the Associated Press, the doctoring affected the meaning of the letter.

    The AP has reported the Vatican admitted on Thursday that it digitally manipulated a photo sent out to media outlets to rebut critics of Pope Francis, who believe some aspects of his teaching represent a rupture with Pope Benedict’s, and with the Tradition of the Church.

    On Monday, the eve of the fifth anniversary of Pope Francis’ election, the Vatican’s Secretariat for Communications released the photo of a thank you letter Benedict XVI had written to the head of Vatican communications, Monsignor Dario Vigano, for the gift of an 11 volume set on the theology of Pope Francis.

    At the press conference launching the book series, Msgr. Vigano cited a portion of the letter that is legible in the photo, in which Benedict says he applauds the new volumes which are aimed at reacting to the “foolish prejudice” that paints Pope Francis as only “a practical man without particular theological or philosophical training” and Pope Benedict as “only a theorist of theology who would have little understanding of the concrete life of a Christian today.”

    Benedict also said the book project “helps to see the interior continuity between the two pontificates, with all the differences in style and temperament.”

    But the Vatican admitted on Thursday that it blurred the final two lines of the first page, where Benedict begins to explain that he didn’t actually read the books in question.

    The Pope emeritus goes on to explain on the second page of the letter, which is not pictured in the photo, that he cannot contribute a theological assessment of Francis as requested by Vigano due to “physical reasons” and because he is occupied with other projects.

    The Vatican offered no explanation as to why it blurred the lines, except to say it never intended for the full letter to be released. In fact, the entire second page of the letter is covered by a stack of books in the photo, with just Benedict’s tiny signature showing, apparently to prove its authenticity.

    Associated Press journalist Nicole Winfield said the missing content “significantly altered the meaning of the quotes the Vatican chose to highlight, which were widely picked up by the media.”

    “Those quotes suggested that Benedict had read the volume, agreed with it and given it his full endorsement and assessment. The doctoring of the photo is significant because news media rely on Vatican photographers for images of the pope at events that are closed to independent media,” she said.

    Veteran Vatican correspondent Sandro Magister subsequently reported that Vigano read parts of the letter during the press conference. Oddly, the Vatican did not provide the full letter of Benedict XVI to the media. Magister therefore transcribed the portions that Vigano had read and posted them on his blog, revealing that there was more to the story than the Vatican communications office, and the photo, were presenting.

    The Associated Press said that, like most media outlets, it follows strict standards that forbid digital manipulation of photos. “No element should be digitally added to or subtracted from any photograph,” the AP standards read.

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/v...oto-of-letter-from-benedict-xvi-praising-pope
     
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  8. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    And since some here do not think Lifesite news is worth listening to, here is an article on the same subject from the secular associated press who say that this sort of misinformation violates journalistic standards:

    https://apnews.com/amp/01983501d40d47a4aa7a32b6afb70661?__twitter_impression=true

    Vatican doctors photo of Benedict's praise for Francis
    By NICOLE WINFIELD
    1 hour ago

    VATICAN CITY (AP) — The Vatican admitted Thursday that it altered a photo sent to the media of a letter from retired Pope Benedict XVI about Pope Francis. The manipulation changed the meaning of the image in a way that violated photojournalist industry standards.

    The Vatican's communications office released the photo of the letter on Monday on the eve of Francis' five-year anniversary. The letter was cited by Monsignor Dario Vigano, chief of communications, to rebut critics of Francis who question his theological and philosophical heft and say he represents a rupture from Benedict's doctrine-minded papacy.

    In the part of the letter that is legible in the photo, Benedict praised a new volume of books on the theology of Francis as evidence of the "foolish prejudice" of his critics. The book project, Benedict wrote, "helps to see the interior continuity between the two pontificates, with all the differences in style and temperament."

    The Vatican admitted Thursday that it blurred the two final lines of the first page where Benedict begins to explain that he didn't actually read the books in question. He wrote that he cannot contribute a theological assessment of Francis as requested by Vigano because he has other projects to do.

    The Vatican didn't explain why it blurred the lines other than to say it never intended for the full letter to be released. In fact, the entire second page of the letter is covered in the photo by a stack of books, with just Benedict's tiny signature showing, to prove its authenticity.

    The missing content significantly altered the meaning of the quotes the Vatican chose to highlight, which were widely picked up by the media. Those quotes suggested that Benedict had read the volume, agreed with it and given it his full endorsement and assessment. The doctoring of the photo is significant because news media rely on Vatican photographers for images of the pope at events that are closed to independent media.

    Vigano read parts of the letter during a press conference launching the volume, including the lines that were blurred out. A journalist who attended the presentation, Sandro Magister, transcribed Vigano's comments and posted them on his blog. But Vigano didn't read the whole letter. The Vatican didn't respond to a request to see the full text.

    Most independent news media, including The Associated Press, follow strict standards that forbid digital manipulation of photos.

    "No element should be digitally added to or subtracted from any photograph," the AP standards read.
     
  9. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Absolutely disgusting.

    Deception and lies do not come from God, but from the enemy.
     
  10. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    This is beyond embarrassing. It´s all over: AP, the New York Times, ABCNews.

    This is the kind of thing you´d expect from Mafia thugs and Communist and Nazi propagandists.

    And I think it breaches one of those old ten commandments - but, hey, let´s not be too rigid about those, right?

    https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/03/14/world/europe/ap-eu-rel-vatican-doctored-photo.html

    http://abcnews.go.com/International...ctors-photo-benedicts-praise-francis-53741631

    The Vatican admitted Thursday that it altered a photo sent to the media of a letter from retired Pope Benedict XVI about Pope Francis. The manipulation changed the meaning of the image in a way that violated photojournalist industry standards.

    The Vatican's communications office released the photo of the letter on Monday on the eve of Francis' five-year anniversary. The letter was cited by Monsignor Dario Vigano, chief of communications, to rebut critics of Francis who question his theological and philosophical heft and say he represents a rupture from Benedict's doctrine-minded papacy.

    In the part of the letter that is legible in the photo, Benedict praised a new volume of books on the theology of Francis as evidence of the "foolish prejudice" of his critics. The book project, Benedict wrote, "helps to see the interior continuity between the two pontificates, with all the differences in style and temperament."

    The Vatican admitted Thursday that it blurred the two final lines of the first page where Benedict begins to explain that he didn't actually read the books in question. He wrote that he cannot contribute a theological assessment of Francis as requested by Vigano because he has other projects to do.

    The Vatican didn't explain why it blurred the lines other than to say it never intended for the full letter to be released. In fact, the entire second page of the letter is covered in the photo by a stack of books, with just Benedict's tiny signature showing, to prove its authenticity.

    The missing content significantly altered the meaning of the quotes the Vatican chose to highlight, which were widely picked up by the media. Those quotes suggested that Benedict had read the volume, agreed with it and given it his full endorsement and assessment. The doctoring of the photo is significant because news media rely on Vatican photographers for images of the pope at events that are closed to independent media.

    Vigano read parts of the letter during a press conference launching the volume, including the lines that were blurred out. A journalist who attended the presentation, Sandro Magister, transcribed Vigano's comments and posted them on his blog. But Vigano didn't read the whole letter. The Vatican didn't respond to a request to see the full text.

    Most independent news media, including The Associated Press, follow strict standards that forbid digital manipulation of photos.

    "No element should be digitally added to or subtracted from any photograph," the AP standards read.
     
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  11. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Blizzard, I thought that no one was going to catch that. Thank you! I am doing my best to remain charitable.

    I greatly appreciate your posts and everyone else's here which are keeping us up to date on what is happening in the Church and around the world, God bless you all!

    Jesus, I trust in You!
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
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  12. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    I think you mean me, Praetorian... :)

    Let me just say about this that Pope Francis might well say something like "who needs enemies with friends like this". The Vatican communications people have most certainly been staggeringly inept. Whatever made them think that they would not have to publish the whole letter? :rolleyes: I suppose the Vatican has a history of secrecy so it just comes natural to them.

    The result is of course that the content of the letter which certainly conveys Benedict's support for Pope Francis, now is being hidden by all the nonsense about the presentation of the letter. C'est la vie!

     
  13. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Like I have said before, I don't need an article, fake news or not, telling me all is good with Pope Francis and Emeritus Benedict, as I can plainly see the confusion PF has caused in the church, to which he refuses to provide clarification to those in doubt. This alone speaks volumes about the man in the chair of Peter.
     
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  14. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Yes I did mean you ;)
    You often belittle sites that carry stories you don't like. So I hope the AP is good enough.

    Photoshopping pictures is not simply the Vatican press office being "inept" as you describe it. It is deliberate deception. There is a sea of difference between the two. I don't mind talking with you, but often your condescending nature is very off-putting. Deliberate deception by the Vatican is not "nonsense". The AP wouldn't be chasing this if it wasn't a story. You can downplay it all you want to, but that won't change a thing.

    The fact that you do not even appeared at all bothered by the use of these tactics speaks volumes about your agenda.
     
  15. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

  16. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

  17. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    That's pretty much what they have already been doing isn't it?
     
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  18. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    I call it 'nonsense' because the action to hide part of the letter was purely an attempt to keep the full content of the letter confidential. That's all. But blowing up their action into some kind of terrible, sinister, behaviour is for me just nonsense. But I can't blame you and others for doing that as the support of Benedict in the letter for Francis rather undermines much of the criticism directed at Francis. And that is why the communication people have been inept. It was always going to be necessary to publish the whole letter and they should have been aware of that.
     
  19. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    This is an interesting choice of word which speaks volumes about the user´s mindset.

    I´m glad you caught on that.

    inept

    [in-ept, ih-nept]

    • adjective
    1.
    without skill or aptitude for a particular task or assignment;maladroit:
    He is inept at mechanical tasks. She is inept at dealing with people.
    2.
    generally awkward or clumsy; haplessly incompetent.
    3.
    inappropriate; unsuitable; out of place.
    4.
    absurd or foolish:
    an inept remark.
     
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  20. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I am not blowing this up. The AP said the Vatican press office has VIOLATED their standards by deliberate deception.

    You can make excuses all you want to, but it is about LIES, not ineptitude.

    Pope Francis or his cronies in the Vatican could be convicted of murder in a court of law and you would say of the victim "Well that guy had it coming."

    It is getting sickening.
     

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