The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Something I posted on the private forum:

    "I have started reading the 'Dictator Pope' book, and I have to say that I'm not very impressed. Far too much hearsay opinion, few concrete facts and one very noticeable allegation that seems self-contradictory*. Pope Francis is beginning to emerge as an even more enigmatic figure, but the book seems too much of a hatchet-job to be overly believed.

    We will have to continue to judge this confusing pope by his own words and deeds rather than those of others. His very refusal or inability, whichever it is, to clearly nail his colours to the mast may well be part of God's plan to defy the liberal faction via the instrument that these aging heretics conspired to elect. Much as Pope Francis outrages the orthodox, we at least have the Gospels, Tradition, the Fathers and a two-millenium-old Magisterium to support us. The liberals, if they don't win soon are facing extinction, as those in the laity who would follow them abandon the Church altogether. How they must feel frustrated as Pope Francis falls tantalisingly short of their needs, or contradicts them outright, as in his recent reported condemnation of sterilisation. And the rot continues to be exposed for all to see.

    [*The book asserts at one point that Cardinal Bergoglio was ruining Church relations with his opposition to the policies of the anti-Catholic Kirschner government during the period leading up to 2010, yet a few pages later charges him with being too soft with the same government at the very same time. I am always suspicious of those who try to have things both ways]."

    I have boldened that one clause above, because I think we should not engage in blaming our bungling pope for everything. Whatever his faults and indiscretions, Pope Francis is not to blame for the introduction of euthanasia in Italy. There are plenty of devils to do that. It is unfortunate, very much so, that his indiscretions and confused statements have allowed him to be used in this manner, but let us be careful not to attribute direct blame.

    These are terrible, tragic times. Despite my fears for my own soul, I am beginning to hope for the Last Judgement...soon.
     
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  2. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Jesus said let your yes be yes and your no be no, anything else comes from the evil one. Pope Francis's yes, no or maybe depends on his audience. It isn't the media's fault. It isn't some anonymous author's fault. The buck stops with the Pope. Stating the obvious about the consequences of sterility is too little, too late from the Vicar of Christ who has been the gift that keeps on giving to abortionists and population controllers and the proponents of homosexual practices which are about as sterile as sterile can be.
     
  3. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    I can't disagree and I'm not trying to give him a pass, but there are a lot of bucks stopping in a lot of places. Inadvertently, the words and deeds of this pope have made this more obvious, to me at least. Naively, I until quite recently thought the Vatican a place of mostly devout people with some bad eggs. Increasingly, it seems to fulfill the title of this thread. Pope Francis, and it bestows no credit upon him, has exposed the cancer for all to see. I do think this is for the best.

    Certainly, these comments he sometimes comes out with, such as the 'sterility' one, are wholly inadequate but their value is that they confound the liberal side. Pope Francis is not fulfilling the demonic hopes of the antinomians and please God will provoke a reaction that will ultimately sweep away the aging liberals.
     
  4. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Thanks for the varied viewpoint. I know I respect your opinion very much. You might want to also post your review on the "Dictator Pope" thread for people in the future who are looking for different opinions on the book.
     
    DeGaulle likes this.
  5. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/new...ex-vatican-officials-who-claim-to-be-martyrs/

    Pope Francis rebukes ex-Vatican officials who claim to be ‘martyrs’
    Staff ReporterThursday, 21 Dec 2017
    [​IMG]
    Pope Francis's Christmas greetings to the Roman Curia last year (Getty)
    Prominent officials in doctrine and financial reform have been removed in 2017

    Pope Francis has criticised Vatican officials for “ambition”, “vainglory” and “self-referentiality” in his annual keynote speech.

    The yearly address to the Roman Curia, given in the days before Christmas, has often been a wake-up call. In 2014, Francis drew up a list of “sicknesses” such as “spiritual Alzheimer’s” and “existential schizophrenia”.

    This year the Pope again delivered some stern criticisms of his staff, and appeared to make reference to recent public controversies.

    The Pope denounced an “unbalanced and debased mindset of plots and small cliques that in fact represent – for all their self-justification and good intentions – a cancer leading to a self-centredness”.

    He also referred to former officials who left after being “corrupted by ambition or vainglory. Then, when they are quietly sidelined, they wrongly declare themselves martyrs of the system, of a “Pope kept in the dark”, of the “old guard”…, rather than reciting a mea culpa.”

    The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) has been the focus of recent controversy. Three officials were removed from their posts, despite the protests of the then-prefect Cardinal Gerhard Müller. The cardinal’s term was then not renewed – the first time this has happened in modern Vatican history.

    Cardinal Müller has since complained that Pope Francis “did not give a reason. Just as he gave no reason for dismissing three highly competent members of the CDF a few months earlier.”

    Cardinal Müller added: “I cannot accept this way of doing things. As a bishop, one cannot treat people in this way.”

    Another prominent official to have been removed this year is Libero Milone, the Vatican auditor general, who claimed he was forced out by the “old guard” because he was cracking down on financial corruption.

    In this morning’s speech, the Pope praised “vast majority” of curial officials. saying that many work with “dedication” and sometimes “great holiness”.

    But he acknowledged the difficulties of reforming the curia, quoting a 19th-century statesman who quipped: “Making reforms in Rome is like cleaning the Sphinx with a toothbrush.”
     
  6. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    http://m.espresso.repubblica.it/inc...l-that-shakes-the-vatican-1.316341?refresh_ce

    35 thousand euros a month for the Cardinal: the new scandal that shakes the Vatican
    21 dicembre 2017
    English version
    [​IMG]
    Francesco's friend and adviser, Oscar Maradiaga, preached pauperism but received half a million a year from a University of Honduras. Bergoglio also wanted an investigation on millionaire investments and on the inappropriate behavior of Bishop Pineda, a loyalist of the cardinal

    When he finished reading the inquiry drafted by the apostolic envoy he himself had sent to Honduras last May, Pope Francis’ hands went up to his skullcap. He had just found out that his friend and main councilor — powerful cardinal Oscar Maradiaga, a staunch supporter of a poor and pauperist Church and coordinator of the Council of Cardinals after he appointed him in 2013 — had received over the years from the Catholic University of Tegucigalpa around 41,600 US dollars a month, with an additional 64,200 dollars bonus in December. Bergoglio had yet to learn that several witnesses, both ecclesiastical and secular, were accusing Maradiaga of investments in some companies in London topping a 1,2 million dollars that later vanished into thin air, or that the Court of Auditors of the small Central American nation was investigating a flow of large sums of money from the Honduran government to the Foundation for Education and Social Communication and to the Suyapa Foundation, both foundations of the local Church and therefore depending on Maradiaga himself.

    "The Pope is sad and saddened, but also very determined at discovering the truth," people of his entourage at Santa Marta, his residency, explain. He wants to know every item of the investigation Argentine bishop Jorge Pedro Casaretto conducted in Honduras, on top, of course, of the final destination of the jaw-dropping sums of money obtained by the cardinal. Just in one year, 2015, as shown in an internal university report L’Espresso obtained, the cardinal received almost 600,000 dollars, a sum that according to some sources he collected for a decade in his capacity as "Grand Chancellor" of the university. However, some other rather unpleasant items account for the rest of the sums he received according to Bishop Casaretto’s report. The pope’s trustworthy person put down on paper the serious accusations many witnesses brought forward (the audits totaled around fifty witnesses and included administrative staff of the diocese and of the university, priests, seminarians and the cardinal's driver and secretary) also against the Auxiliary Bishop of Tegucigalpa, Juan José Pineda, among the most loyal in Maradiaga’s inner circle and de facto his deputy in Central America.

    After studying the dossier he received directly six months ago, Pope Francis assigned to himself all final decisions to be made.

    Maradiaga, of the Salesian order like the Vatican’s former Secretary of State Tarcisio Bertone, was born in Honduras 75 years ago. His birthday falls on 29 December, around the time he will be handing down his resignation on Francesco's desk, who will then decide whether or not to confirm his duties. A primary school teacher before becoming a middle school math professor, the cardinal is a highly cultivated person fluent in five languages, an expert in moral theology and philosophy and a great lover of music. He became very well-known in Latin America as a sworn enemy of corruption and a strong defender of the very poor. That is why, in 2013, Francesco, who appreciated his intellectual and government skills, called him to head the group of advisors currently developing the reform of the Roman curia.

    The accusations are many: "Some expenses go to close friends of Pineda, like a Mexican who calls himself ‘Father Erick’, but who never took his vows," said a missionary. "The real name of the man is Erick Cravioto Fajardo. He lived for years in an apartment adjacent to that of the cardinal at Villa Iris. Pineda, who lived with him under the same roof, recently bought him a downtown apartment and a car. The money, we fear, came from university funds or from the diocese. We denounced this close and unseemly relationship also to the Vatican. The pope knows everything".

    The witnesses envoy Casaretto audited talked also about investments to the tune of millions gone catastrophically sour: Maradiaga supposedly transferred large amounts of the diocese’s funds to some financial companies in London, like Leman Wealth Management (whose owner is one Youssry Henien, as the registers of the Company House of England and Wales show). Now part of the money entrusted (and deposited in accounts in German banks) seem to have vanished.

    There is more to the story. Casaretto's report also hints to likely huge flows of money from the media empire the archbishopric set up and Suyapa Foundation, which manages the newspapers and televisions of the diocese, controls. As to Bishop Pineda, local newspapers pinpointed him recently as being the man who orchestrated reckless financial operations and the recipient of public funds (for as much as 1,2 million dollars) allegedly destined to obscure projects aimed at "training of the faithful to the values and understanding laws and social life". According to the accusers, these expenses were never supported by valid documentation.

    The Vatican is worried also about the Court of Auditors of Honduras’ launching of an accounting probe on the Catholic diocese there between 2012 and 2014. The prosecutors at the Tribunal Superior de Cuentas want to see clear about the lawfulness of the projects for which the government transferred every year tens of millions of lempiras to the Foundation for Education and Social Communication, whose official representative is still Maradiaga. As of the time of writing — so in a letter from the prosecutors L’Espresso obtained — the church did not produce the records on assets and liabilities and expenditure documentations.

    We will know soon if Bergoglio will consider the serious accusations credible or not.

    translation by Guiomar Parada
     
  7. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    I have made more progress. The book improves as it moves into describing the various goings-on at the Vatican and not just those of the present. The facts seem more clear-cut and there is so much information one is less aware of mere crude assertions being made against the Pope. There is much corruption, financial and otherwise, but none of it involves the Pope directly. Pope Francis is accused of favouring the establishment, while paying lip service. The financial affairs of the Vatican are such a complicated labyrinth, it is difficult to make any definitive judgements.

    What did dismay, and anger, me is the description of the neglect by Pope Francis of the huge progress made by his papal predecessor in dealing with child abuse in the Church. This seems quite undeniable, with several examples of his excessive and inappropriate mercy towards abusers being provided. There is also the matter of his indulgence of the likes of Cardinal Daneels, notorious for his cover-ups of abuse. Additionally, he seems to be a believer in the obsolete and long-discredited psycho-therapeutic view of abuse, in other words that it is sickness rather than sin, a notion that enabled many perpetrators in the past to continue their history of abuse much longer than would have been the case otherwise (Benedict/Ratzinger's strategy was to treat the abusers as filthy sinners, to report them to the civil authorities and to expel them from the priesthood completely and he had fired about 800 priests by the time of his resignation).
     
  8. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    There is an article over on Father Z about Pope Francis' henchman, one Cardinal Rodriguez Maradiaga, apparently a strong advocate of wealth redistribution. It seems this Cardinal practices what he preaches and has redistributed vast amounts of wealth...to himself. Pope Francis seems to have been the one who instigated the investigation into this blackguard. If so, the Pope certainly deserves credit for it. I just can't get my head around this pope at all, at all.
     
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  9. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    It’s a CRIME
     
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  10. An Guilbneach

    An Guilbneach Mane Nobiscum Domine

    Dont rush to judgement no wrong doing has been proven
     
  11. sunburst

    sunburst Powers

    Who are we to judge? It's all good... :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
     
  12. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I admire your courage in reading away at all this. I just find the whole thing like a kick in the stomache. I'll try to get back to it after Christmas if I can find the courage. It dismays me so much not because I don't think most of it isn't true, no , it dismays me because I fell certain most of it is indeed true.

    Oh sad times! Sad, sad, sad times for Mother Church.
     
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  13. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I would invite you to read the book. You may very well get a big eye opener.
    I certainly am.
    Yuk, its like crawling down a sewer pipe.

     
  14. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I agree wholeheartedly.
    He is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.
    I don't think this phrase has been as true about anyone as it is about the current Holy Father.
    It would be absolutely riveting to read an actual psychological study of him.
     
  15. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    There is nothing really new in it, it just collects all the horrors we have been hearing in the last few years into a coherent collection. I think, however, that it should be read with as much detachment as the reader can muster, never forgetting that the author chooses anonymity and may have an ignoble agenda of his (or her) own.
     
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  16. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    I understand your caution, but there is no doubt about the rehabilitation of the paedophile-protector (paedophileophile?) Daneels. Additionally, the policy of abandoning Ratzingerian strictness for 'mercy' towards the most vile abusers is well documented and goes unambiguously beyond mere opinion.
     
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  17. padraig

    padraig Powers

    It produces a narrative. Irish people love stories. Well I guess everyone loves a story. This is a story. He binds it all together in one set piece. I suppose that is what the Bible itself is; a story..a narrative.
     
  18. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    I am now past half-way. I am now beginning to understand your hesitation about reading it. It is very difficult going, to be reminded, among other things, and in unprecedented detail, of the dismantlement and degradation of formerly edifying institutions such as The Papal Academy For Life. It should be noted that the rot had set in prior to the election of Pope Francis, but he certainly has assisted in continuing it. The entire network of events within the Vatican does bring one to fear that a certain 'smoke' has taken charge in some circles. How else to explain a Vatican that seems, in some quarters, to question the sanctity of life, to promote sodomy of the most blasphemous kind and to encourage sex-education among children?
     
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  19. padraig

    padraig Powers

    The devil Is there sure enough.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
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  20. An Guilbneach

    An Guilbneach Mane Nobiscum Domine

    If I may respond to some of the posts. My concern in all of this is simply , the fear of offending God
    We must not give in to rash judgment. Remember every post can be read by anyone. At the same time it is so important to defend the truth, in its fullness so as to give light to others. It is a narrow road!! Reading the forum since 2014, brianK has stood out as one who has been a light in the dark and yet care is needed. Sometimes in my view he said what he should not. My reading of the forum has inriched and troubled me in equal measure. When I look at Cardinal Burke, I see a man who walks a narrow road. His eye is on the defence of truth all the time, no distractions, no personal attacks, no rash judgments. we must do the same.

    Best wishes for Christmas for all on the forum.
    REJOICE AND BE GLAD, FOR A SAVIOUR HAS BEEN BORN TO US.
     
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