Charlie Johnston.

Well Julia,
Every Denomination has their Sackcloth and Ashes Cult that, like the painting of the unhappy Puritan, they are miserable because they know somebody, somewhere is having a good time!
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GOD SAVE ALL HERE ..... Puritans too!!

 

Sacrifice, Sacrifice, Sacrifice,

 

Sorry if I poked the bear!!!!!!!

 

D

You know one can get addicted to wine? And that everyone at Cana was talking to God? And His Mother? Yet He provided more wine to the guests even after they had drunk the place dry? The CCC only mentions tobacco in the context of its abuse, over-indulging in it to the point of not supporting one's family or knowingly risking grave harm to one's health. Nowhere in the CCC is smoking per se deemed even a venial sin. I've never heard of it, never heard a priest, Christian Brother or nun in my entire life mention it as remotely sinful, and presume this is being assumed due to the relentless anti-smoking propaganda of recent years whereby smokers have become the new lepers. I have never smoked and have always regarded it as a repulsive habit, but I have recently developed a growing sympathy for smokers as they are among the first and most severe pariahs of political correctness.

Surely you don't consider steak dinners or dinner parties sinful in themselves? If conducted in the proper spirit they can be quite edifying. Maybe you need to read some GKC!

Also, you say that 'one e-cigarette might not be sin to you but it might be sin to me'. Is this not moral relativism? Only The Church has the authority to define what is sinful. If every Tom, Dick and Harry could define it for himself, according to his own flawed human judgement, there would be chaos. In fact, that is exactly what is rampant in the world right now. So we have some people using their private judgement to assert that abortion, for example, isn't a sin and others asserting that smoking an e-cigarette is. Meanwhile, The moral doctrine of The Church says the exact opposite.

 

As for addiction, as far as I am aware we are all addicted to caffeine. If you do not get a cup of tea or coffee after a certain time you will suffer from headaches. Some people even suffer from stomach cramps. This is classic withdrawal from an addictive substance.

I believe when people try to fast on bread and water, caffeine withdrawal rears it's ugly head, and they either have to suffer the pain or give in and have a cup of which ever caffeine they are addicted to.

It is a slippery slope to get on a rant about addiction. I have read that some food manufacturers were using additives that were addictive in their products to get people hooked on their products. I wonder how many of those who criticise smokers are aware of that.

Chocolate is addictive, how many people who love their chocolate would like to never taste it again. Or be held up as monsters because of their addiction.

 

I like your post fallen saint because it is lovely and clear in how you discern these things. If you have not seen the story of Bernadette from Lourdes. it might be a big eye opener to you in how God works in souls. It certainly helped change my perception of these things.

The point of that story for this discussion is how a nun in the convent with Bernadette made her life a misery. The nun herself was punishing herself to do penance for her own sinfulness; while she was very mean and cruel and judgemental towards Bernadette.

In the end God opened that cruel nuns eyes, and to her credit she became practically a hand maid in the care of Bernadette who by then was seriously ill. She did this to make reparation for her own bad judgement towards Bernadette, and no doubt saved her own soul in the process.

There is also Saint Theresa of the Child Jesus. She was visited by a nun from Purgatory who had died and had in her lifetime criticised St Theresa for her (supposed) over confidence in the Mercy of God, which St Theresa encouraged in the younger nuns. One reason that nun went to purgatory was because she offended God by her lack of trust in His Mercy and for criticising St Theresa for encouraging that very trust.

Oh and by the way. I do not know if Charlie J is everything he claims. I just have not found anything that offends my faith, belief and trust in God and His Mercy and Compassion, at least not to date.

 

Bernadette and Charlie perfect comparison.

Too much

 

Two souls both loved by God enough that He allowed His only begotten Son to die for them. Yes, Gods love is too much for us mere mortals.

 

As a smoker hoping to become an ex-smoker with the help of e-cigs as soon as I can get myself in the right frame of mind, I'm very much on the fence about Charlie but leaning on the disbelief side. In my view, the main plus point is that I don't have to wait years for him to be proved either right or wrong.

I would like to see straightforward answers to the issues raised by Harper rather than suggestions that she has some kind of vendetta against Charlie. I'm also curious to know how Charlie earns his living. That's something that often pops into my head about the Medjugorje "visionaries". I'm inclined to agree with Fallen Saint that an apparition from Heaven would be a life changing experience. Perhaps their lives were changed and we don't know how, but it seems to me that none of them are living austere lives. I'm not saying that there's something wrong with their lives or lifestyles - it's just that when I think of, say, the apparitions at Lourdes or Fatima the children were praying when Our Lady appeared to them and they went on to live very holy lives albeit very short lives for Jacinta and Francisco. That said, I think it may take direct intervention from Heaven to get me off the smokes. I suppose Charlie has plenty of e-liquid stashed away in his refuge.

 

Dust, shake, move on...

 

St Pius X smoked cigars, and they ran out of wine in Cana because Our Lord brought the twelve with him.
I would think more of Charlie if he smoked real Tobacco than E- rubbish.

Never gonna please everyone.....or anyone

 

Mac...you can believe anything you want. I will repeat myself. If you are having visions from God, Angels or the Virgin Mary...everything changes. You won't be going to steak house, drinking or smoking e-cigarets. Not that those things are sins. I never said that. But if you are Moses...then its prayer and sacrifice. Not travel and dinner parties. You can try to say it alright to drink and smoke...and in moderation, its no big deal. But if you are receiving spiritual VISIONS...then everything changes. You can't have visions without the sacrifice. Its not how Christianity works. If God calls you as a messenger...your public life must be exemplary (prayer, sacrifice/penance and sacraments).

Thats it, that simple.

 

Im not totally disagreeing with you FS.

But St Pius X did have visions.
One quite for our times.
If he had Wine an Cigars that is fine.

Lol , when one is middle aged and dating giving the 'full service'... then it is Demonic.


Dont confuse Wine and Tobacco with Adultery.Try at least to keep it Catholic.

 

I think there are two noble roads to take in regard to the bounty given to us by God in this world. The first is sacrifice, whereby one abstains from certain goods such as particular foods, alcohol or sexual activity, not because they are sinful (it is the abuse of the good that is the sin), but in order to deprive oneself of a benefit for the sake of God's Glory. This is the hardest road, and the greatest, but it was never God's intention for everybody. Perhaps not even for all prophets. The second road would be the one described by Chesterton (himself not unprophetic in many of his writings), whereby one treats life's necessities as a luxury. For example, rather than drinking a mundane glass of wine somewhat thoughtlessly, contemplate the work that has gone into making it and getting it to your table and how good it is to taste it, realise that it might be the last one you'll ever drink in this world and thank God for it. The same applies even to a humble glass of water. Such an attitude not only makes food, drink and shelter more attractive, but it is a guard against materialist craving for novelty. Of course, I'm as bad as the next man for taking necessities for granted.

Still, I regard Chesterton's advice as wise and he certainly could never have been accused of not practicing it himself!

 

Dearie, dearie me -

Jansenism at its finest.

They pile heavy burdens on people’s shoulders and won’t lift a finger to help (Matthew 23v4).

I have come that ye might have life and life in all of its fullness (John 10v10)

 

De Gaulle - your posts on this thread are authentically Catholic.

We have enough puritanical protestants here in the north of Ireland to co-exist with and they are thoroughly nasty people because they judge the least little thing.

Now we are having to contend with some puritanical catholics on the forum.

Killjoys!!

 

Garabandal, I thank you, because I distrust myself as a judge of myself and it is helpful to be told I am getting something right. I hope everyone on here will also let me know when I am getting it wrong.

 

I don't think FS is a jansenist, unless you regard people who perform acts of asceticism as jansenists. What is at issue here, and I think it's a valid point, is whether people who have been privileged by God to have visions and receive messages (as Bernadette did) undergo radical changes in their lives. Complete conversion. I have never had a vision of Our Lady but I can imagine that if I had, it would change me forever. There's nothing killjoy about expecting God's human messengers to set an example of holiness by self-denial. Really holy people do it all the time. They don't have custom-built BMWs with bespoke wheel trims or make property investments. Of course there is nothing wrong in investing, or even in having a nice car, but if God has suddenly burst into one's life, then everything changes.

If you don't get it, it's hard to explain.

Perhaps I'm a Jansenist - better go and have that donut before my apparition at 3.30.....

 

Your view seems to deny free will. Judas experienced the Incarnation first hand and look at what he did. And no, I am not comparing any visionary who does not lead an exemplary life, or is not perceived to, with Judas. It must also be noted that a visionary's mission might not allow space or time for a certain type of pious and contemplative behaviour, no matter how laudatory.

 

I didn't call him a Jansenist per se just that that particular post was jansenist.

How do you know or FS know that Charlie Johnston is not holy?

You cannot judge by outward appearances. Only God knows.