Thank you for this reassurance Glenn. I hoped for nothing less or more. I do not subscribe to FB so I will continue to observe this site. My confidence in your integrity is 100% as it is with Conchita. That will not change. I was too tired to remember last night but looking back to my recent topics I see that I had already cited sources that you have comfirmed. I simply got them a confused in my later response to Aviso's comment for which I have apologised. It's 6am here in NZ on August 15 (one day ahead) and I am off to Mass for the feast of Maximillian Kolbe and the Assumption which will also be celebrated tomorrow. You and Conchita will be in my prayers. Stay strong, the finishing line cannot be far away. Look over your shoulder and you will see many running with you to encourage you to the end.
Do you not know of Cardinal Ratzinger's ( POPE BENEDICT XVI ) letter on Vassula ? NOTIFICATION* Many Bishops, priests, religious and lay people have sought an authoritative judgement from this Congregation on the activity of Mrs Vassula Ryden, a Greek Orthodox residing in Switzerland, who in speech and in writing is spreading in Catholic circles throughout the world messages attributed to alleged heavenly revelations. A calm, attentive examination of the entire question, undertaken by this Congregation in order to "test the spirits to see whether they are of God" (cf. 1 Jn 4:1), has brought out – in addition to positive aspects – a number of basic elements that must be considered negative in the light of Catholic doctrine. In addition to pointing out the suspect nature of the ways in which these alleged revelations have occurred, it is necessary to underscore several doctrinal errors they contain. Among other things, ambiguous language is used in speaking of the Persons of the Holy Trinity, to the point of confusing the specific names and functions of the Divine Persons. These alleged revelations predict an imminent period when the Antichrist will prevail in the Church. In millenarian style, it is prophesied that God is going to make a final, glorious intervention which will initiate on earth, even before Christ's definitive coming, ah era of peace and universal prosperity. Furthermore, the proximate arrival is foretold of a Church which would be a kind of pan-Christian community, contrary to Catholic doctrine. The fact that the aforementioned errors no longer appear in Ryden's later writings is a sign that the alleged "heavenly messages" are merely the result of private meditations. Moreover, by habitually sharing in the sacraments of the Catholic Church, even though she is Greek Orthodox, Mrs Ryden is causing considerable surprise in various circles of the Catholic Church. She appears to be putting herself above all ecclesiastical jurisdiction and every canonical norm, and in effect, is creating an ecumenical disorder that irritates many authorities, ministers and faithful of her own Church, as she puts herself outside the ecclesiastical discipline of the latter. Given the negative effect of Vassula Ryden's activities, despite some positive aspects, this Congregation requests the intervention of the Bishops so that their faithful may be suitably informed and that no opportunity may be provided in their Dioceses for the dissemination of her ideas. Lastly, the Congregation invites all the faithful not to regard Mrs Vassula Ryden's writings and speeches as supernatural and to preserve the purity of the faith that the Lord has entrusted to the Church. Vatican City, 6 October 1995. Joseph Card. RatzingerPrefect arcisio Bertone, S.D.B.Archbishop Emeritus of VercellSecretary * L’Osservatore Romano, English Edition, N. 43, 25 October 1995, Page 12. Latest update In 1995, the Catholic Church's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) published a Notification (a message from the Holy See ,From then Cardinal Rat zinger (Pope Bendict )) on the writings of Rydén, saying her communications should not be considered supernatural, and calling all Catholic bishops to prevent Rydén's ideas from being spread in their dioceses. In a letter dated January 25, 2007, the new Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal William Levada, following continued requests for clarifications on the writings and activities of Rydén, wrote to the Catholic hierarchy around the world stating that "the Notification of 1995 remains valid as a doctrinal judgment" of the writings, which should be seen as her own personal meditations and that Catholics should not take part in prayer groups established by Rydén. In 2011, the Greek Orthodox Church officially disapproved of Rydén's teachings, instructing their faithful to disassociate from Rydén. In 2012, the Church of Cyprus said that Rydén's teachings were heretical. SO, I'LL CONTINUE TO FOLLOW CONCHITA, YOU FOLLOW THE CONDEMNED VASSULA.
I have a question? Did the Catholic Church silence Conchita? And has she personnaly said she is 100% sure it was our Blessed Mother? Brother al
No,she has NEVER been silenced ! As a matter of FACT, here's a few quotes from the pope who met her : “ Conchita, I bless you and with me the whole church will bless you “. Father Escalada explained his work in spreading the message of Garabandal in Mexico and the Pope Paul VI encouraged him to continue saying: "These messages must be made known." Father Escalada asked the Pope for his permission to continue promoting Garabandal and the Pope said “YES”. Pope Paul VI said : "It is the most beautiful story of humanity since the days of Christ. It is like a second life of the Virgin on earth. And we can never be grateful enough for it." Pope Paul VI had all the while shown a very special interest in the apparitions. At an audience given to Fr. Jose Escalda, S.J., the latter mentioned there were many opponents of the apparitions even amongst his own people. His Holiness promptly rejoined: "It doesn't matter; tell these gentlemen that it is the Pope who has said that it is most important and most urgent to make these messages known to the world." And as to your second question, after countless "personal conversations" with her over 20 years, she has NEVER said she has the slightest doubt to me.
I have just been at mass and the readings brought to mind the girls in the 60s in Garabandal when the gospel acclamation praised God for having revealed the mysteries of the kingdom to children and in the gospel Jesus instructed his disciples to bring the children to him because the kingdom belonged to such as them.
One other thing in which I have never harboured the slightest doubt is The Real Presence. Conchita is not, of course, the subject of my Faith, only the Lord Jesus, but I believe totally in the revelations passed on by her and that they came from The Blessed Mother of God. I have no doubt.
Thanks Glenn, I do not have this book in my possession unfortunately. If you can humour me wrt a few more "scholarly" queries I would be grateful... (a) Do you have any other references to hand by any chance for this ET incident (above you mentioned it was written about in several Garabandal books). (b) Does the Garabandal book have footnotes (at the bottom of the page) or endnotes (at the back of the book for each chapter) that source the details of other written or oral sources (ie the oral/written report of Mercedes which Aviso denies) relied upon for this ET incident? This would be the norm for a professional, well researched book especially wrt a report that would be predictably controversial. (c) The additional Fr L Rodrigo SJ source mentioned is very interesting. This is fully referenced and points to a written letter of his 22/10/1965. Have you ever seen a copy of this letter or perhaps even have it in your Garabandal library by any chance. It looks like an independent verification of the credibility of this incident. Of course, if his letter is in response to the same unverified source that Serre/Caux use then it adds no further credibility to the Serre/Caux book wrt this ET thing. (d) It is somewhat disturbing that Cerre/Caux themselves indicate they are not 100% in control of their sources here just named when they then write "So, couldn't we at least presume that the above-reported revelations.... Future and larger works on Garabandal, based on numerous authentic original sources, should present it all in a much more detailed way..." It does seem to suggest, as scholars, they are not entirely confident wrt this incident because of a lack of corroborating sources and detailed authentic sources. It would be interesting to know from Aviso why he is so confident that this, nominally to be accepted, report by Cerre/Caux is to be so clearly rejected?
Hello Glenn, there has been extensive discussion about Vassula Rydén's case on several threads elsewhere on this forum which I won't try to summarize except to say that things are considerably more complex than they may first appear. That she has been the object of condemnations by the Orthodox Church in Greece and Cyprus (though being supported in other Patriarchates) is certainly true, but this is at least in part due to the fully Catholic spirituality of her writings (which were given a Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur in 2005)!! As for the 1995 and 2007 CDF pronouncements, for a complete contextualization it needs to be stated that there was extensive dialogue between the CDF and Mrs Rydén during the intervening years which has been documented in detail by Cardinal Ratzinger's then doctoral student Niels Hvidt, according to whom Cardinal Ratzinger said that he personally wanted to see a new notification to rectify that of 1995 but that he had to 'obey the cardinals'. It also needs to be borne in mind that he later prefaced Hvidt's Oxford University Press book on post-Biblical prophecy, in which a chapter is devoted to Vassula Rydén. In addition, the now Cardinal Prospero Grech, who had been appointed by the CDF to examine Vassula's case, in 2014 wrote a positive review of her autobiography that was published in Robert Moynihan's Inside the Vatican Magazine. So while Cardinal Levada's 2007 letter is still in effect canonically, the current position of the Magisterium is in practice somewhat more ambivalent regarding Vassula Rydén than it might suggest, with several Cardinals having allowing themselves to be publicly associated with her.
Peter, thank you for the detailed information you provided. It certainly appears there is "room for discussion" on her authenticity. My aversion toward her stems from her picture with Conchita. When the picture surfaced , I asked Conchita (in her home ,after a holy hour ) , showing her the photo, did she know who this was ? She flatly denied knowing who it was at that time, saying it was a friend who asked if she mind having her photo taken with Vassula ( and of course she obliged ). She since has refused to discuss anything about her.
It is an unfortunate fact that there's no escape from the foibles of human nature ... for any of us!! I'm not going to judge or for that matter justify anyone's behaviour or reaction to that behaviour, except perhaps to say that it was almost certainly the content of the True Life in God messages that motivated Vassula's actions in wanting to be photographed with Conchita, however she may have gone about it. There are extensive passages in TLIG in which Jesus allegedly implores the Church to approve Garabandal as a matter of prime importance (on a logical level in terms of evaluating Vassula's messages you have to ask yourself why an Eastern Orthodox would invent this kind of pleading for a yet-to-be approved Catholic apparition if TLIG were simply a work of theological imagination. Seems somewhat unlikely to me as an 'inference to a best explanation').
Thank you Aviso. I was about to lose my faith in Garabandal which I have had since the 1970's. Pius II [Condemned in the letter "Cum sicut," Nov. 14, 1459] 717c (3) That God created another world than this one, and that in its time many other men and women existed and that consequently Adam was not the first man. The Church has already spoken and condemned through Peter.
KW I think if we went through the dust laden Magisterial archives with a fine tooth comb there would be many more such embarrassing "official" statements issued by the Popes - including those that hold the sun must orbit the earth because it and Man is the centre of God's creation. So we personally have prob two main choices to make if this be so: (a) the Pope is literally 100% correct and science is mistaken both in some of its well proven facts (the sun does not orbit the earth) and also in its highly probable inferences (evolution, alien life) (b) science is correct in the above but the Pope is mistaken If, as many Catholics accept for good scientific reasons, we go for (b) then we seem to be faced with two more choices: (i) Papal infallibility cannot be deemed conclusively operative wrt those Papal statements on these matters. (ii) Papal infallibility was indeed operative, therefore Papal Infallibility is a mistaken doctrine. Being a pragmatic sort of person when it comes to making decisions with incomplete knowledge I tend to use the principle of parsimony (aka "Ochkam's Razor" of Catholic philosophy). That principle encourages us under such circumstances to choose the option that least boggles the mind with complication, long chains of supporting principles and "occult" causes (ie hard to falsify assumptions)...because 95% of the time this will turn out to be the correct solution when all the information becomes available. This suggests b(i) the most likely solution. Personal experience may of course vary.
Nice find King, Denzinger EN 1375 Errors of Zanini de Solcia * [Condemned in the letter "Cum sicut," Nov. 14, 1459] 1361 717a (1) That the world should be naturally destroyed and ended by the heat of the sun consuming the humidity of the land and the air in such a way that the elements are set on fire. 1362 717b (2) That all Christians are to be saved. 1363 717c (3) That God created another world than this one, and that in its time many other men and women existed and that consequently Adam was not the first man. 1364 717d (4) Likewise, that Jesus Christ suffered and died not for the redemption because of His love of the human race, but by the law of the stars. 1365 717e (5) Likewise, that Jesus Christ, Moses, and Mohammed ruled the world by the pleasure of their wills. 1366 717f (6) And that the same Lord our Jesus is illegitimate, and that He exists in the consecrated hosts not with respect to His humanity but with respect to His divinity only. 1367 717g (7) That wantonness outside of matrimony is not a sin, unless by the prohibition of positive laws, and that these have not disposed of the matter well, and are checked by ecclesiastical prohibition only from following the opinion of Epicurus as true. 1368 717h (8) Moreover that the taking away of another's property is not a mortal sin, even though against the will of the master. 1369 717i (a) Finally that the Christian law through the succession of another law is about to have an end, just as the law of Moses has been terminated by the law of Christ. *Zaninus, Canon of Pergamum, is said to have presumed to Affirm these propositions "in a sacrilegious attempt against the dogmas of the holy Fathers and later to assert them rashly with polluted lips," but afterwards to have freely renounced "these aforesaid errors." http://www.clerus.org/bibliaclerusonline/en/dqg.htm
I believe this one above while obviously debated at the time has turned out to be mistaken. Catholic tradition is no longer on its side having come to a fuller and more detailed understanding of the matter in the intervening 500 years. As I understand it, theft can admit of "parvity of matter" as the theologians like to say (see here, point4.) That is, there are situations where intentional taking of possessions against the will of their owner does not involve grave matter (a necessary pre-requisite for intrinsic mortal sin). The latest CCC puts it this way: 2408 The seventh commandment forbids theft, that is, usurping another's property against the reasonable will of the owner. There is no theft if consent can be presumed or if refusal is contrary to reason and the universal destination of goods. This is the case in obvious and urgent necessity when the only way to provide for immediate, essential needs (food, shelter, clothing . . .) is to put at one's disposal and use the property of others. [190] The Dominican tradition, committed to poverty, (and following Aquinas's teachings in the 1200s) has always been adamant on this point. It seems to have finally been accepted by the nobles and wealthy princes of the Church of that time who were no doubt disturbed by such a teaching being communicated to humbler folk. Of course most of the time it is grave matter, but it is possible for it to be otherwise in time of famine and inequality.
"SO, I'LL CONTINUE TO FOLLOW CONCHITA, YOU FOLLOW THE CONDEMNED VASSULA." Glenn, do not be so quick to judge. I am just wondering whether you read Vassula's books with the messages. I am not an expert in theology and I do not consider myself to be learned. All I can say is that I have read the bible, I read those messages and I did not see something different. It is through Vassula's messages that I learned about Garabandal and actually Vassula's messages helped me stop judging Catholics, Protestants, and other Christians. I started seeing them as my brothers (despite the history of Catholicism and the blood spilled by various popes throughout the world). When you say that a pope is infallible just think about this: Do you know that in Romania there are a lot of martyrs that the Catholics created when they tried to impose Catholicism in Romania by sword? There was a lot of innocent orthodox blood spelled by the so called "100% infallible popes" not only in Romania, but in so many other places around the world. Let's leave it aside. This topic is dangerous and let's try to show love to each other. By the way, Vassula's messages had a positive effect on my spiritual life and thanks to her messages that I have learned and I believe in Garabandal. Please take a bit of time and think upon the following: 1. I thought that we are supposed to follow Jesus not Conchita or Vassula. There is fine line between looking up to someone and worshiping that person; 2. Mark 9:40 "For he who is not against us is for us"; 3. Make sure you don't kick against a goad. Read St. Paul's Testimony to Agrippa in Acts 26:14: "And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew dialect, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads." 4. I fall many time into the trap of judging others and believing that I am learned. I think we have to be careful here. Just think about this: Matthew 11: 25 At that time Jesus said, "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. 26"Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight" I am sorry if any of the above upsets you, but I always remember that during Jesus' trial before his crucifixion somebody stood up for Him and said: if something is from God it will continue and it will last, otherwise it will perish. I know that these times that we live in are very confusing, and it is so difficult to discern. Thanks and I apologize again if I said something to upset you or anybody else. Your brother in Christ, Bogdan
I also tend to go with b(i), but in any case if we look at what was condemned in 1459, applying it to the question of extra-terrestrial life seems a little dubious, as it clearly concerns the hypothesis that there are other worlds with human beings. Nobody here (or in Garabandal) has been suggesting that.
As to Aliens,the words of Jesus Christ springs to mind, Sufficient to the day are the worries thereof If I ever get to meet one and shake its tentacles, that will be the day I start to sort out the theology
Sorry Blue, in addressing your questions, I came up with no real help. (a) - all my books and notes of those books ( except the "Garabandal " book ) were destroyed in Super Storn Sandy, I just happen to have the GBL book on my desk at the time. So I would have to go online now and re-read all the books to see where it was mentioned ( I will do this , in time ). ( b) There is no footnote in the book for that story.. ( c) This was a personal letter from over 50 years ago, and I have never seen a copy. As even Aviso will verify ( since here ,only his opinion matters to some ) many "official documents " are in the possession of the Vatican, and have never been released to the public,and I'm sure a great many number of things would be verified through this priests eyewitness details and recordings of events. Maybe they will be released after the Miracle, fingers crossed .)
Do you understand the meaning of " Papal Infallibility " ? It does not pertain to every judgment they make, just in the discerning of the Church's teachings on Sacred scripture and sacred tradition. This has nothing to do with what we are talking about anyway. Just because Vassula has inspired you ( which is great she did ) doesn't mean she is authentic ( after reading PeterB ' s post, it gives me more hope that she is , thanks again Peter B ) . MDM was a false prophet, and she inspired alot of people too, so that doesn't mean much. I don't "follow" Conchita ( it was used in the sense of a visionary reference, NOT my faith, most here understood that , except you ). I'm not fighting against anything, I offered information ( that no one here knew about ) from the FACT of what she tried to present as a "false friendship " with Conchita. You have no idea who I am or what I've experienced first hand in over 20 years of promoting our Blessed Mother's messages. Don't be a hypocrite, you tell me not to judge, yet you are judging me.
