I was just wondering what members think is the role of the Pope . It would be more interesting to use your own thoughts and words for this rather than using google View attachment 3053
I have not googled this and not thought about it much but I feel he has to represent Christ here on earth, exercise the authority that Christ gave him, be Christ like in himself as an example to follow, be a Father figure to us all in terms of care and keeping us in line, be a good priest and never ever compromise The Word. Hows that for a start.
Well I have been googling it and Im not sure their is a right or wrong answer. So a good start. Your answer is certainly sincere .
His role is to be the visible leader of Christ's Church on earth. Every other leadership or authority in the Church loses its authority if it is not in communion with the Pope.
A few years back I bought the most beautiful 4x4 from a Jewish wedding planner in Manchester. It was the most gorgeous old beauty , I was very ,very proud of it. But you know the old girl kept breaking down and I just kept getting it fixed time after time. Eventually my mechanic could not get parts for it anymore and that I should take her to the scrap yard. Well...the Church is like this at the minute. I doubt really we have the get up and go to drive her to the scrap yard ourselves so the Holy Spirit is enabling us through the fire of circumstances to trade her in for a new model. For instance the city of Rome , including the Vatican will be burnt to the sticks and the Universal Church will return to the catacombs. There will be no Pope in Rome and in fact no Pope at all as far as most can see, what Pope there is will be on the run hiding some shack in some distant mountain top. So instead of scrapping the old 4x4 the old four by four will be scrapped for us. In the words of scripture it will seem like, 'His leaving us was an annihilation..' Wisdom 3 1 But the souls of the upright are in the hands of God, and no torment can touch them. 2 To the unenlightened, they appeared to die, their departure was regarded as disaster, 3 their leaving us like annihilation; but they are at peace. hope was rich with immortality; will their blessings be. God was putting them to the test and has proved them worthy to be with him; 6 he has tested them like gold in a furnace, and accepted them as a perfect burnt offering. time of visitation, they will shine out; as sparks run through the stubble, so will they. will judge nations, rule over peoples, and the Lord will be their king for ever. I guess what I am trying to say is we need to leave the old car, the old way of doing things in our hearts, so that when the old car is driven away from us to the scrap yard we can handle it better. View attachment 3057
We are on the same page Padraig and I believe that Garabandal and Akita have it covered. We no longer have a choice. Rien ne va plus. No more bets. We will rise from the ashes but even the ashes will be left behind. We will still be One True Catholic and Apostolic but our human history will not strangle our growth. As ever, Christ will be our head. I sometimes half jokingly say look at our church, we are told to call no man Father yet that is exactly what we call every priest, we are told not to take on celibacy unless we can stand it yet we impose it on every priest, we are told to make no distinction between male and female yet the church has always been dominated by men, we are told we no longer live by the law but by the Spirit yet the vaults of the the Vatican is full and its walls are lined by miles and miles of laws, we are told that we preach no clever philosphy but only Christ crucified yet our priests study philosophy for years, we are told to speak plainly, yes for yes and no for no, yet the official language of the church is still Latin. How elitist is that. The terms in which encyclicsls are couched are incomprehensible to the vast majority of the faithfull. In todays gospel we are told that Christ explained everything plainly and in full to his disciples yet we are left with unexplained attitudes and actions in relation to private revelation which to most people are full of merit. Sometimes they are only half approved eg in a vision but not a message. Satan gets the blame and he is probably quite happy with that. In the old days each trade has its own words and ways for passing on its skills. This was to control membership of the trade. And so we came to masonry. No wonder it feels so at home in our church. When the eyes of Aquinas were truly opened he realized all he had written was as straw. He put aside his opinion yet the church uses it as a foundation for faith. I am sure there are many people out there who could annihilate these contentions as indeed I can but the ordinary guy in the street might not be so inclined. We are told that women can never be priests because Christ never ordained a woman. How do we know that. Christ never used a computer. Does that mean we cannot. You can laugh. I remember a priest in London saying, "every day across the world women shed their blood in the pains of childbirth to keep the human race going. If this is not reason enough to ordain them then I dont know what is." Etc etc. One of my biggest resentments against the church was that they forced me to go through a divorce before they would consider annulment. The church teaches that divorce is wrong, quite rightly, but also insists on it. My annulment was given but this should have been considered first. The marriage may even have survived. Even though the ruling gave me the right to remarry in the church I am not happy with how it was handled and have submitted it to Rota to make sure it is valid. Again I know all the counter arguments but these points survive. I know it does not sound like I do but I love the Church. These are just things that sometimes go through my head. We need to be dismantled and rebuilt in a new and better way. And dont throw VAT II in my face at that. At least they tried.
To me he dictates, Faith, hope, love, time, expectations and all that I need to follow the one truth that is Jesus the Christ. May Our Lords words be always on His lips, Amen.
I think two insights come to mind here, Joe. The first is President Abraham Lincoln. I always admired him because I think he was more than a bit of a mystic. President Lincoln seen beyond the world he lived in , a world that accepted slavery at theprice of a working Consititution and was prepared for both himself and his country to get there. But first he had to live the dream and endure that his country dreamed the dream to move forward in blood and ashed to a new dawn. We need an Abraham Lincoln of Popes, one who sees the future, the immediate future and moves us forward before the incoming Tusanami of events drowns us into moving forward. I sense the present Holy Father understands this but us finding impossible to carry the Church on his shoulders as the warning sirens roar. View attachment 3058 The second image is of a magnificent ball in the Ancien Regime in France just before the French Revolution struck. All looked firm, all certain. But they living in a dead ghost. They never woke up to smell the coffee before the guillotine took their heads of. They never did. Marie Antoinette.
Jackie, Jesus said as His final prayer on Earth: John 17:21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. A dream of the Pontiff as a Dictator will not move us towards the dream , the completion of the prayer of Christ for oneness. For it was precisely this understanding of he who stands in the shoes of the Fisherman that causes us to fall apart. When Pope Pius x11 was on the throne he used to require that anyone who answered the phone knelt on the ground as they spoke to him. I am sorry that kind of thinking just won't feed the chickens. The chickens that are coming home to roost.
Luke 12:34 Do Not Worry …33"Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys. 34"For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. The ax will be taken to the roots. We will live the dream for the dream is about to be imposed upon us.
Mac- great question. As I reflected upon it, I us kept coming back to Pope 1.0 - Peter . Here he was a simple, perhaps a bit gruff and uneducated fisherman. He was impulsive and he was a coward her 3 times denied and abandoned Jesus despite experiencing Him for 3 years. Yet God chose Him above all the others to reveal the true nature of a Jesus and Peter was bold enough even though he probably didn't initially "get it" that Jesus was the Son of God. And Jesus said he would build His Church upon the "Rock" of Peter. So to me the role of the Pope is to continue to be together with Jesus the "builder" of the Church. The pope's role then to me is to be build up and shepherd the Body of Christ (The Church) on earth. And by build up the Church, I don't mean physically- the building, the power, even the working of the Vatican, but spiritually build up the people. He must like Peter, be a fisherman of souls- all souls, even those the world and yes even some in the Church say are lost or not worthy. He, like any priest actually, is to be persona Christi, another Christ. The pope, of course has the expanded role of the Vicar of Christ. So through the power of Christ and despite their humanness and sinfulness, the popes are here to work with Christ in proclaiming and establishing the Kingdom of God.
I don't think that the Pope's role ought to have anything to do with the current "Global Warming"-Not debate. With all the problems on Planet Earth I believe that "Climate Change" should rate 3 notches below Whale Poop on the "Scale"! I simply can't figure out why the Vatican is getting involved. It is not only causing confusion amongst Catholics but is giving "ammo" to all the "Evangelical" Catholic Haters "Out-There"! I've always thought that Lord Monckton was/is a Good Guy ... The Left despises him so that's a Big Plus ... before you start hollering anti-Catholic ... He is a Catholic and a Knight of Malta. "CLIMATE EXPERT: MARXISTS, GLOBAL WARMING EXTREMISTS CONTROL VATICAN" http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...ts-global-warming-extremists-control-vatican/ GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!
Environmental manifesto may confirm Pope Francis as ‘Benedict 2.0’ http://www.cruxnow.com/church/2015/...sto-may-confirm-pope-francis-as-benedict-2-0/
Yes, once again I Agree, now more than ever we need to wake up. We need to stand shoulder to shoulder with Pope Francis and help him bear the enormous burden, this dead weight he carries. It will be taken from us but at least we will have done our bit.
I'm all for standing with the Pope as long as it's about Faith & Morals and long held beliefs/traditions of The Church .... but as for his opinions outside of Faith-n-Morals, his mindset from being born/raised in the failed/corrupt nation of Argentina or his being misled by radicals within the Vatican .... I'll reserve the right to "Raise the BS Flag". The Church is in the mess it's in 'cause us laity remained silent, these past 50 years, and did nothing while radicals and perverts matriculated to the highest levels of the Vatican and Dioceses World-Wide ....... and thus The Storm!! GOD SAVE ALL HERE AND GUIDE POPE FRANCIS!!
We laity too need to be careful when we raise our voices. In the past this has resulted in the schism of 1040 when the church split into east and west, the protestant reformation with the loss of Eucharist to all its followers and the subsequent subdivisions into tiday's 35,000 so called Christian denominations the vast majority of which are devoid of most of the sacraments. I know the Pope's history but as the saying goes "past mistakes are meant to guide us, not define us."
Your question puts the cart before the horse, It really doesn't matter what i think a pope is for , but why Jesus created the Papacy and gave him his key of authority... To me I believe one has to drop back and ask first ,why did God create us ? and the old Baltimore Catechism tells us, Baltimore Catechism No. 1 LESSON FIRST: ON THE END OF MAN 1. Q. Who made the world? A. God made the world. 2. Q. Who is God? A. God is the Creator of heaven and earth, and of all things. 3. Q. What is man?A. Man is a creature composed of body and soul, and made to the image and likeness of God. 6. Q. Why did God make you?A. God made me to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him for ever in heaven. 9. Q. What must we do to save our souls?A. To save our souls, we must worship God by faith, hope, and charity; that is, we must believe in Him, hope in Him, and love Him with all our heart. 10. Q. How shall we know the things which we are to believe?A. We shall know the things which we are to believe from the Catholic Church, through which God speaks to us. 11. Q. Where shall we find the chief truths which the Church teaches?A. We shall find the chief truths which the Church teaches in the Apostles' Creed. 12. Q. Say the Apostles' Creed- is abbreviated version of the Nicene Creed http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/balt/balt00.htm The Nicene Creed we all say every sunday at Mass came from the Council of Nicea in around 325AD. For a Council to be valid a Pope must call for one ,and open the council and a Pope to close the same Council for it to be valid. So to answer your question of what role a Pope has! It doesn't really matter what my personal beliefs are to be honest, I need to understand how our Lord Jesus setup His Kingdom on earth and bend my knees to him... In Luke 10v16 our Lord says VERY CLEARLY, who Hears you Hears me!!!! We are ALL created to go to Heaven,The Pope is Jesus voice on Earth....for now!
My thoughts are based on His words: And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. Matthew 16:18-19 Douay-Rheims
The Pope is the visible head and the source of unity. Look at what has happened to protestantism since the Reformation. Thousands, upon thousands of denominations. Proves the fallacy of Sola Scriptura.
Yes Joe but ......... the Church is already in schism! In the past 50 years thousands of Religious and millions of Laity have "Voted With Their Feet", hundreds of churches/schools have closed and some dioceses have been bankrupted by a minority of pervert clergy and those that have attempted to cover it up. After 15 years of scandal, the scandals keep coming It will be years before parents stop wondering if it's okay for their children to go on outings with their priest ...... and good priests/nuns are demoralized and have to worry about lawyers-n-lawsuits-n-phony charges leveled against them by radicals and their "Media" Pals! Scripture (& Jesus) warns us to be prepared and watchful for "Signs" and false prophets .... and satan's useful idiots. We have an over abundance of all the above and it's past time to pull our heads out of the sand, keep our "Radars Up" and pray for guidance/discernment ............ and ditch the Blind Faith (in humans) argument!! I fear, and soon, that great unpleasantness will unfold and what goes on in Rome or in your Diocese HQ will matter nothing to your existence or survival! JESUS I TRUST IN YOU!! PS: All others pay cash
