[quote "fallen saint, post: 72868, member: 4118"]Bh, Your starting point is wrong. If this was a general forum, then your statements would be appropriate. But since this is a forum based on faith...your comments are not appropriate. As brilliant as you might think you are...its the starting point where you are lacking. Brother al[/quote] Faith in what FS? This is why is sympathise with Blue. Our faith has to be in Jesus - not in the Catholic Church, not in any apparition. Blue highlights where our own faith is often lacking imho
Faith in what FS? This is why is sympathise with Blue. Our faith has to be in Jesus - not in the Catholic Church, not in any apparition. Blue highlights where our own faith is often lacking imho[/quote] Faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior...faith in God. I believe in God, the father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen. That is the starting point Brother al
Why, because I told Pijon you like to debate? You do, but that doesn't mean I don't like your posts, I find your perspective interesting and I would miss your point of view. I'm sure that there are others here who would too.
Faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and savior...faith in God. I believe in God, the father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen. That is the starting point Brother al[/quote] Not a single apparition mentioned. and as far as i know the Holy Catholic Church encompasses more than just the Roman Catholic Church. keep rattling the cage Blue
Its the big JC of course Bart. People, I am very different from most of you only because I have an unusual Catholic background. I grew up surrounded by intellectual and highly educated Catholic Priests and Catholic Uni Professors whom I identified and discussed with at too impressionable an age - eventually getting tertiary degrees to match. While that might make my views and love of intellectual discussion seem a bit weird to you it doesn't mean I am off track or unhelpful. I am not brilliant but I do know my faith inside out which is why I try and assist when I see grossly unsubstantiated misunderstandings or unhealthy blinkered views expressed by sincere but misguided fellow Catholics on this site. I do not expect to be thanked for doing that. We all have different personality types. Most here are more into sharing feelings and intuitions and fears in order to achieve a sense of one-ness and security in a mad world. That is how it should be. But please have the openness of mind and generosity of spirit to recognise that a certain percentage of the population is not like this and doesn't get its kicks like this. Some of us find security and a sense of oneness by seeking and hopefully arriving at a probable consensus of what is True through polite discussion, reasoned argument, sharing strange yet substantiated opinions/views, and robust yet respectful debate. To the sanguine personality, and to some women especially, I know this seems like disunity and "fighting". It is often not disunity or fighting, one simply needs to understand the more academic personality type. One simply has to get a firm grip on one's own fears/suspicions when you see your cherished "truths" dismantled and put back-together again like this. Calling people trolls or heretics or apostates or of the devil or having no faith simply because they are less sanguine and like to trade in a unity of ideas rather than a unity of feeling/intuitions seems a bit of failure to understand the variety of human nature inherent in society. We cannot expect everybody to be in the world the way we ourselves are. The simple fact is that surely that we need each other. This thread has ably demonstrated the foolishness that unrestrained "feelings" and "prophecy" and "intuitions" and alleged private revelation can lead to if not coupled with a bit of common sense, logic and respect for science and sticking to the wisdom of Public Revelation and the Pope rather than our own take on Scripture or identification with a particular Cardinal. Of course excessive reliance on science and logic and reasoning and blindly understood dogma and legalism and a denial of all Private Revelation and modern prophecy is to miss the signs of the times and take the living spark out of religion as well. Both aspects have to be integrated in a healthy manner. That seems to be the real challenge for us. To be honest I feel this Forum is heavily oriented to only one of the above groups. All manner of sharing of intuitions (including the foolish and unsubstantiated) are allowed free reign. But when some of us want to share/discuss reasonably substantiated ideas or views that don't necessarily follow popular piety wrt matter outside of Public Revelation (or matter not fully defined within Public Revelation) ... they get hammered and complained against. I find this a form of exclusivity, a sign of unrecognised personal insecurity and even hypocritical. There, I have now unburdened myself so will say no more here lest I get even more complaints.
I'd be willing to go under bus with you if I wasn't such a feminine bag of emotions! Marie Curie must have cried herself to sleep every night
This thread was started, because Padraig received a PM from a lady in Wisconsin that something big was going to happen on the 25th of October. It didn't. This brings me to my question. What are people receiving who make such claims? Can people be receiving messages from the dark world to confuse? How is one to discern a message as coming from the 'light' in lieu of 'darkness'? In one of Charlie Johnston's latest blogs he stated he was told that President Obama would repent after his Presidency and become a follower of Christ. Now I know miracles happen, but at the current time there is no one more pro-abortion than Obama (even stating he would encourage the abortion of his own grandchild if his daughter were to get pregnant). He is extremely anti-Christian, dishonest as they come and has done everything he can to stomp out Christianity, even amoung the clergy in the armed forces. Leads me to wonder sometimes if Charlie is getting messages of 'light' or 'darkness' when he say's such things. Not questioning Charlie's good will, but some things don't add up.
Fatima, once again we are on the same page as I've had the same thoughts. Re the Oct 25th prediction, I think that can be easily discarded as we don't know the person who made the claim so there's no point of reference. Re Charlies's claim on Obama, he has said that the entire govt will fall and that what is going to happen is so dramatic (biggest event in human history) that its reasonable to think even the hardest hearts will repent. Charlie has also said that even today Obama thinks he's doing good, he's just a severely misled person. That's as charitable as I can describe him anyway. Re Charlie, has he made any predictions in the past that have come true?
Hold on a sec... you say here our faith has to be in Jesus, not in the Catholic Church. Our faith most definitely DOES have to be in the Catholic Church. Mark Mallett has just put up another brilliant post which speaks to this: http://www.markmallett.com/blog/the-spirit-of-trust/ "Many have been pierced by the fiery arrows of the spirit of Suspicion in recent days. It is, in part, because they have not, in fact, kept the profession of their faith. By this I mean, each day at Mass, we pray the Apostle’s Creed, which includes the words: “We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.” Yes, we not only believe in the Trinity, but in the Church! But I have fielded many letters that reveal a subtle creeping into the subjectivism of Protestantism as they say, “Well… my faith is in Jesus. He is my rock, not Peter.” But you see, this is skirting around Our Lord’s own words: You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. (Matt 16:18) We believe in the Church, because Jesus established it. We believe in the intrinsic role of Peter, because Christ placed him there. We believe that this rock and this Church, which are one entity and cannot be separated from another, will stand, because Christ promised that it would."
BH, Yes, we do need you simply because you're one of the family. The fact that your rational, less emotional style is in the minority shouldn't keep you away. But, realistically speaking, your skin will have to remain thicker because you'll always be bumping up against the majority. May Paul's admonition always win out for all of us on the forum: Philippians 2: 3 Do nothing from selfishness or conceit, but in humility count others better than yourselves. 4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus... O Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to you!
Everyone quotes Aquinas, but if they only understood his philosophy. It was a combination of faith and reason. A coexistence of both. Modern day thinkers (as well as blue) try to use Aquinas as an extreme philosophy...that everything can be deduced from reason. That was not his philosophy. Forget Aquinas and join me on a spiritual journey...Augustinian Philosophy. Blue and ZMWT your starting point is lacking God bless Brother al
Thanks Mario. No fear of me staying away. However if one gets kicked off a Forum just for challenging "sacred cows" then I don't think a thick skin can help .
At the risk of finding out how wrong I am, I have to say that although I do 'believe' in the Church, I would hesitate to say I have 'faith' in the Church. On the large 'body of Christ' level I probably do have faith, but as it manifests itself locally or even nationally I would definitely be slow to say - yeah I have faith in that. There's a difference between faith and belief that I haven't quite resolved. All suggestions gratefully received
