Garabandal Objections: "closed till after the Feast of Assumption"

For my own reasons, I tend not to weigh in on the debates of apparitions. I am breaking my own rule in this case to share with you the recent words of Pope Francis as I think they apply here. In many way, the MOG site is like our own "virtual parish" and the holiness and unity of this place is important not just to all of us who come here, but I think in even a mystical way - it's IMO a sacred space to get away from the worldliness. I feel deeply in my heart that ALL here on both sides of the discussion are good people on their journey toward their true homeland. Let's help each other get there- not hinder each other. I think Padraigs advice to pause and pray makes sense. And so does what a Pope Francis say:
“I am not telling you to cut off your tongue, not that, but to ask the Lord the grace of restraint: Gossip is human but it is not Christian, this happens when we strive for first places, when we strive for personal success and judge others, when we look at the shortcomings of our brothers rather than their gifts, when we look at what divides us rather than what unites us”.


Francis asked that “in the face of all this, we must seriously examine our conscience. Division in a Christian community, be it in a school, parish, association, or anywhere, is an extremely grave sin, because it is the work of the Devil. God, instead, wants us to grow in our ability to welcome, to forgive and to love one another, so that we resemble him more and more, he who is communion and love. This is what the sanctity of the Church means: to recognise itself in the image of God, filled with his mercy and his grace”.

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/e...rancis-francisco-chiesa-church-iglesia-35990/

My own final thought is that we are commanded to not put false idols before God. In other words, nothing- a person, a thing, a belief or not a belief in an apparition should ever take on such importance that it becomes the idol that blocks the true Light of God from penetrating your very soul. Peace to all here

 

Mac you misinterpret what I said or maybe I was not clear when I posted. I feel it is pointless to carry on in such a negative attacking way. What I don't see the point on was if the motive was to argue for the sake of arguing. It felt as if there was this countdown going on like a kid waiting for Christmas. There was this sense of excitement about now being the time to get to this heated debate. That is the reason I asked why and what is the point here. If you moticed after I had posted that and read the response from Jose and Tim I have left it alone because their responses back showing their motive was one I am ok with. The motive of this discussion at first did not appear to be one of good intent but more of just for the sake of arguing. I still am reading this with great interest because to me it seems like a great example of how good and holy people can be duped into heated discussion and anger and itself is a sign for the times. Questioning the motive in my mind is what a moderator should do. A moderator must moderate the discussion and ask and reserve the right to express caution if the debate seems to be uncharitable or heading in an uncharitable way. Glenn is way too close to this situation to do so but I am not nor is Padraig. You will not see my opinion on this situation though you may get an idea but as a moderator it is not my place to input my opinion but to moderate.

We must be cautious that the debate does not turn toward scorn, anger, judgement and hatred for our fellow brothers and sisters. Despite our stance on this we must remain good and loving toward our neighbors, our family members.

This whole discussion reminds me of the big fight that was going on during Holy Week of this year on the board and then I too was saddened because I felt it was evil pulling good and holy people away from what we should all have been focusing on in that week.

 

miker said " My own final thought is that we are commanded to not put false idols before God. In other words, nothing- a person, a thing, a belief or not a belief in an apparition should ever take on such importance that it becomes the idol that blocks the true Light of God from penetrating your very soul. Peace to all here "

I agree, but I would like to clarify something and remind what Conchita has stated repeatedly ""But, if we heed the Message, believing in the apparitions is of no importance." So ,with that in mind, it is NOT that I or others "idolize " the apparition or persons associated with it, it is Mary's message for our salvation that we are trying so desperately to get across. This message has been given prior to ,and after Garabandal,. But what people fail to see is Mary's disappointment in humanity, and failure to heed her saving words.
If people want to over look the thousands of "good fruits' and miraculous events at Garabandal and not believe, so be it. BUT , how do you ignore her message as false when she asks for Repentance, Penance, confession, mass, communion, Eucharistic adoration, the rosary & scapular, AS CATHOLICS ????

 

The Blessed Virgin reaffirmed at Garabandal the teachings and traditions of the Catholic Church .
http://www.ourlady.ca/info/affirmationsofFaith.htm

 

Glenn wasn't there something said about how something will happen that will cause many to no longer believe on Garabandal? If that is the case and Joey was the event then I don't view his death being a failed prophecy for his eye sight but more the prophetic event that would lead to this dis belief in Garabandal and once again heaven being far ahead of us in the great design and plan.

I also find it very hard to discredit in the discerning process the significance of the actual date Joey passed. This is in no way by coincidence and the devil could not be the one taking Joey to further add to what many are calling a deception by the devil. For me if it was a deception why would God ad further complications and mystery to this event by taking Joey on the date that He took him. Wouldn't this further be strong proof to its credibility? I am not asking Glenn all this but would love to hear the opinions of both the fors and againsts regarding these two points I am bringing up in this discussion.

 

“While he was living, the same Padre Pio guaranteed the authenticity of the apparitions of the Blessed Virgin. He met Conchita at San Giovanni Rotondo. Even during the last days of his life he talked about this to his brothers in religious life and left a personal message for the principle personage of the apparitions. “

Fr. Pelletier -“Our Lady comes to Garabandal” page 219




From the book “The Final Hour “ (Michael Brown) page 141
On the topic of Padre Pio ‘s belief in Garabandal:
“Asked on another occasion about its authenticity, he answered curtly, ”How many times must she appear there to be believed ? “

Pope Paul VI,the Holy Father came to her and announced joyfully in a clear voice, "Conchita, I, the Pope, bless you and with me the whole Church blesses you."

The November 7, 1968 bulletin of Peru's Legion Blanca under the imprimatur of Mgr. Alfonso Zapana Belliza, Bishop of Tacna, Peru, quotes the late Pope Paul VI as having said at a private audience these inspiring words: "Garabandal the most beautiful story of humanity since the birth of Jesus Christ! It is also the second sojourn of the most Holy Virgin on this earth, and we have no adequate words to express our gratitude."

Pope Paul VI had all the while shown a very special interest in the apparitions. At an audience given to Fr. Jose Escalda, S.J., the latter mentioned there were many opponents of the apparitions even amongst his own people. His Holiness promptly rejoined:
"It doesn't matter; tell these gentlemen that it is the Pope who has said that it is most important and most urgent to make these messages known to the world."

Pope John Paul II - on Garabandal

There is a book on Garabandal, written by Albrecht Weber in 1993, entitled Garabandal Der Zeigefmger Gottes (Garabandal: The Finger of God), of which a first edition copy was presented to Pope John Paul II. He later asked his secretary, Fr. (now Archbishop) Stanislaus Dziwisz, to write to the author. In the subsequent printing (2000) of the book, on page 19, a portion of the Pope's message is reprinted, as follows:"May God reward you for everything. Especially for the deep love with which you are making the events connected with Garabandal more widely known. May the Message of the Mother of God find an entrance into hearts before it is too late. As an expression of joy and gratitude, the Holy Father gives you his apostolic blessing."Weber writes, "From the attached greeting in the Pope's own handwriting, with his signature, it is clear how deep an interest he has in the events of Garabandal, and how anxious he is that they should be made known in a credible way."

Mother Teresa & Garabandal

The famous Foundress of the Missionaries of Charity has never expressed any doubts about her profound belief in the divine origin of Garabandal: "It was in 1970 that I heard about the apparitions of San Sebastian de Garabandal for the first time . . . From the beginning, I felt that the 'events' were authentic . . ." (Letter of November 10, 1987 to Msgr. Del Val).
During her frequent trips to the United States, notably to New York, Mother Teresa had the opportunity of meeting Conchita who has lived on Long Island since 1972. This was the beginning of a strong human and spiritual friendship that never faltered. Mother Teresa is the godmother of Conchita’s third daughter, Anna Maria.

If I'm wrong, I'm in pretty good company.

 

Yes, I mentioned this quote in post #76 . Here it is again : On December 6, 1962,Conchita had a 90 minute ecstasy around 5:30 in the afternoon after which, she provided two more pieces of information regarding the Miracle: 1) One day, before the Miracle, something will happen that will cause many people to stop believing in the apparitions of Garabandal.

 

Andy3, and anyone else , adding together these two quotes, tell me why I should not still believe that the prophecies will come true ?

On December 6, 1962,Conchita had a 90 minute ecstasy around 5:30 in the afternoon after which, she provided two more pieces of information regarding the Miracle: 1) One day, before the Miracle, something will happen that will cause many people to stop believing in the apparitions of Garabandal.

Conchita & Jesus comment on belief of Garabandal
Conchita, diary jp204, 1966: He [Jesus] replied..."I want to tell you, Conchita, that before the miracle occurs, you will suffer much, for few people will believe you. Your own family will believe that you have deceived them. I am the one who wants all this, as I have already told you, for your sanctification and so that the world may comply with the message. I wish to advise you that the remainder of your life will be a continual suffering. Do not be freightened. In your suffering you will find me and also Mary whom you love very much... I will be with whoever suffers for me."

 

Oh, come on now Glenn. Obviously none of us are denying Repentance, confession, mass, communion, rosary and scapular are fundamental. We already know these things WITHOUT Garabandal. What we are objecting to is that Mary was the one appearing in Garabandal. The devil would try to copy the words and actions of the BVM if he was IMITATING her, that's what imitating is. We are basically ignoring Garabandal because we don't believe it was the BVM. We already practice these good works and acts of devotion because the Holy Mother Church has taught us them.

 

Firstly it should be pointed out that those who have faith in God and in His Providence know very well that God arranges the timing of important events, and those who have eyes to see and ears to hear should very well recognize the hand of God in the timing of Joey's passing on June 18--the anniversary of the first Garabandal apparition, and also the last public message of the Blessed Virgin Mary--for June 18 is truly a key date in the Garabandal apparition.

http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2014/06/the-death-of-joey-lomangino-blow-to.html

There are 365 days in the year.

Joey had a 1/365 chance of dying on that day.

There are no coincidences in heaven for God knows the day of our death which is recorded in the book of Life.

“all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be” (Psalm 39:16).

"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books" (Rev 20:12)

 

Care needed here ... Yes, Satanic imitation of apparitions is a known phenomenon, but despite the Enemy's talent for mimicry, there are some things that he simply will not say (such as 'Jesus Christ came in the flesh': see 1 John 4:2). For example any kind of praise of God. If doxology can be found in an apparition/locution it is certain that it is not of the Devil. It may still be of human origin, of course, whether as a result of delusion or deceit, but mystical phenomena explicitly containing praise of God are definitely not demonic.

 

Oh come on little, HOW AGAIN DID THE DEVIL PRESENT HIMSELF AT GARABANDAL ? AND WHAT MESSAGE DID HE PROJECT, AND WHAT DID HE GAIN ?? NOW YOU SHOW ME EXACT EXAMPLES OF EACH TO PROVE YOUR POINT , AS I ALREADY SHOWED TO PROVE MINE.

 

I remember this quote from a long time ago on the Garabandal News thread. You added then it had something to do with another Marian apparition. Do you remember this?

 

Sometimes its better to just walk away...to fight another day

Brother al

 

"We already know these things WITHOUT Garabandal", Yes WE already know this things without Garabandal. Look around you, do you think the world knows this? Our Lord did not come to call the righteous, but the sinners. He did not send His mother to us with this message of Repentance, confession, mass, communion, rosary and scapular at Lourdes, Fatima, Garabandal, Akita, Kebeho, Medjugorje to save the righteous but to call back sinners. I know I owe my reversion back to the faith due to the millions who did listen to these messages and take them to heart and followed them and prayed. And I thank you everyone! This is not rocket science. A warning and a miracle are promised, the Holy See has the date of the miracle and waits prudently. As do I. Believe or don't believe, if it is of God no man will stop it.

 

Here...
Credo & Jimmyiz, some people question 2 events already, the death of Mary Loli ,and the "end of the times" after the 3rd pope,but neither of these events has anything to do with the disbelief of the aparitions. The reason is that the "event" that is supposed to create doubt,is supposed to happen within the 8 days before the Miracle. Conchita said that it may have something to do with false manifestations of the Blessed Virgin .
"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not believe, no explanation is will suffice."

And here...

The event that is supposed to create doubt, is supposed to happen within the 8 days before the miracle. So the warning happens and after Conchita announces the date of the miracle, something will happen in those 8 days to create such a doubt that people will not believe?
Yes, that's what Conchita said.

So why try to use this as a reason for Joeys failed prophecy?

 

Another apparition ? No. It had a second line to the quote, but it had nothing to do with this topic.

 

'The reason is that the "event" that is supposed to create doubt,is supposed to happen within the 8 days before the Miracle. Conchita said that it may have something to do with false manifestations of the Blessed Virgin ."
"The event that is supposed to create doubt, is supposed to happen within the 8 days before the miracle. So the warning happens and after Conchita announces the date of the miracle, something will happen in those 8 days to create such a doubt that people will not believe?
Yes, that's what Conchita said."

To say that Joey's death IS the event that is creating doubt can, in no way, fit into "what Conchita said". This is just too much, seriously.

 

The funny thing is, every single one of the unbelievers here cites Joey's death as the reason they don't believe now. Make up your mind

 

There's no sense walking away, since there's a fight every day.