Should children of same sex and unwed families be baptized?

But the Pope baptized child of unwed.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Chapel-Baptism-Of-The-Lord-mass-Vatican.html

May Gods Will be Done

 

That is allowed. An unwed mother can fully live her faith and teach it to her child. A couple living in a sinful relationship is a different matter. Again, I implore you to study the Catechism.

 

The Sacraments, is our map... to our sainthood. It starts with baptism and the Sacraments continues throughout our life. Imploring me to study Catechism is slightly arrogant on your end. Re-reading my responses, i don't think i have said anything against the magisterium of the church. Funny, but I have been trained by the Norbertines, Jesuits as well as some other very conservative orders. (There goes my humility ) this thread is controversial but is important to discuss. My personal belief is the individual soul is more important then the sins of the family. The main question is ...is it better to be baptized or not. The graces given at baptism are so great it should trump all arguments. I am not the the magisterium of the church. My belief is not cannon law but only my personal spirituality.

One last question, if someone asked Jesus if babies of gay and unwed parents should be baptised. What would Jesus say?

May Gods Will be Done

 

I refer you to Canon Law 868. I understand your thoughts about this but am wondering why you feel this should be changed. Do you love these children more than God? Do you feel so hopeless in these
these times that you think God must change His ways and His teachings? Because God has great plans for all His children, and how can we throw the gay parents out of the picture without any hope for their salvation and just give in and say " yes here is the sacrament for your infant. Good bye and good luck." Rather than tell them the truth....that unless they repent and bring their children also back to God also they will forfeit eternal life with God. We must all give up sin to be Christian and all repent and strive to live virtuous lives with no exceptions. Yes I believe God has a plan for ALL even in these times, and along with the Church I'm not ready to give up on these parents souls yet....

 

Carmel333...this is not about the worthiness of the parents. It is about the eternal salvation of a soul. There is a good article on Spirit Daily right now about a priest who condemned a "bad mother" who was baptizing her child...you should read the response by his superiors. Very telling. I tried to post link but could not get story...have a look see if you will.

 

PS... if you are so learned in Church teaching please be honest and just say you disagree with it. Then go ahead and let us know your personal spirituality and we can discuss the issue from there. That way no one will assume you don't know your faith and you won't feel insulted if others try to help you understand it. And as a Carmelite...sorry but never can seem to understand modern Jesuit theology. I work with one and we seem to be from different planets LOL. I guess we all view things differently. I just can't see your side, so perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree friend.

 

I saw it and the Priest acted horrible and not at all in what the Church teaches. Common guys...! Its easy to look this stuff up! A child will never go to hell just because not baptised, and the Church knows there are worse consequences for a baptised Christian with no chance of being brought up in the faith. And ANY child can be baptised if in danger of death at any time, and any child at the age of reason can request baptism for themselves, and live the faith. So really the only ones who will be happy about Changing Canon Law will be the gay parents, who will mistakenly think the Church now accept s and blesses their sinful union.

 

Carmel333...if I may butt in...not to get away from the thread on hand..but...Carmelite vs Jesuit theology. I am certainly no theologian...but I can discern the paths they are on.
1) Carmelite theology is geared toward the "common man"...it seeks the Will of God through the Mercy of God and Obedience.
2) Jesuit theology is more specialized...it is more intellectual and seeks the Will of God...through the movements of the Holy Spirit.
Both seek the will of God but both are on differing paths to reach the Will of God.
Your natural disposition predisposes you to one or the other. Neither is superior to each other.

 

The Code of Canon Law (as previously mentioned by Carmel333) teaches that for an infant to be baptized in the Church, "there must be a founded hope that the infant will be brought up in the Catholic religion" (Canon 868). The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, in the 2006 document "Ministry to Persons with a Homosexual Inclination: Guidelines for Pastoral Care," said the Church does not refuse baptism to children of same-sex parents, as long as they will be reared in the faith.

"As long as they will be reared in the faith" should not be glossed over. Sometimes it becomes clear that the couple has no intention of doing so--their motivation for being there is self-serving. Here is a related article:

http://www.aleteia.org/en/society/a...nt-your-kids-baptized-5898071942627328?page=2

 

Would rearing in the faith require those sickly folk to teach the children that their lifestyle is grotesque ,and unless they repent ,no chance of meeting them in Heaven? . Rearing in the Faith would cover this. How would this affect the child? At what age should they be told the reality?

 

FYI on Baptism http://www.aboutcatholics.com/beliefs/a-guide-to-catholic-baptism/

 

Ok, after reading the CCC, I must change my answer. "No" to the gay couple's POOR, POOR child. And woe to them (the "parents") on their judgement day.

 

The Pharisee's vs Jesus.
This is scenario #1...My brother is gay...and along with his gay lover they adopted a child...the child became gravely ill and near death and I was at the child's bedside. I thought...what should I do...my brother and his fellow sodomite have no intention of raising her a Catholic. Well I thought...should I baptize the child extending her the Grace of Salvation. Well...no...I couldn't do that...in my voluminous Code of Canon Law... that I just so happen to have in my front T - shirt pocket...it says no...because what if the child lives and she is not brought up Catholic. I better sleep on this one.
The child died that night.

 

Another reason to be glad that we don't have to figure out all the answers, 'Not my pay grade' another forum member would say.
I have to believe in the goodness of my God and that He will work all situations to the greater good - otherwise my sins of omission and comission will always weight more than my good works, and I am lost along with the unbaptised.
We can only attempt to cooperate but the grace of God is what makes the difference in the end.
Even BXVI didn't have a definitive answer to this question.

 

It's a darn good thing there are EXCEPTIONS to the rule. You could reach into your imaginary pocket and read those exceptions (child is in danger of death) and then praise God for his genius!

 

I have some thoughts on your questions. 'Is it better or not to be baptised?'

I think as the church teaches ,if they be brought up in the Faith yes of course.In danger of death ,yes. But just for the sake of administering a sacrament to a baby or child not yet at the age of reason ,I say no. They are not in danger of damnation.[so what are you worried about?]
This mark on their soul will only take them lower in Hell and cause more suffering for all eternity if they reach the age of reason, and due to a poor upbringing reject the Faith.
Since most reject ,or dont even know the Faith, while being brought up in the standard Catholic household those in the Homosexual home have little chance.
Pray for these poor innocent victims.

 

FS asked...'One last question, if someone asked Jesus if babies of gay and unwed parents should be baptised. What would Jesus say?'

He said this...'.But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea'.

 

I pray for them, that God will change their minds and help them with their
confusion and that God will help them understand that a " Man is a Man and a Woman is a Woman.
I been begging God to let them understand the truth and help them with whatever troubles is that they are facing.
The fact that I also have close friends who is gay.
I am not afraid to tell them to pray to God though, I am that person that I do not hide what I believe and my religion... take it or leave it. I try to evangelize them because I always believe that God can work mysteriously.

We can only pray for them and intercedes and help them through our prayers. I don't know but I always believe in praying hard and God answer your prayers
when you are confident in what you are asking to him.

 

Mac,
That is the most interesting argument... do souls that have been baptized suffer more in hell. Through the tradition of the Church, many very holy men have stated there are layers of hell. But that would entail some suffer more and some suffer less. Therefore, those suffering less would have some type of mercy in hell. I am not sure that is absolutely correct. Hell is a extreme to all who enter...because there is no relief. Hell is eternal. This might be a different thread but very interesting.

On a different note, the quote "scandalizing little ones" is a two-edged sword.

May Gods Will be Done

 

I think that all the above statements are mainstream except the first which looks conditional.
Re baptised or not I think that is only important in so far as it provides the will greater opportunity for malice against God.
A bit like a gun I suppose. If you are going to do wrong and you realise you have a gun in your pocket then you have an opportunity to inflict even more damage.
If baptism has provided somebody occasions for grace that they intentionally thwarted throughout their life then the responsibility is no doubt greater.

I believe the other statements are kosha not simply on the basis of the inspirations of devout holy men but also the conclusions of wise holy men and even not so holy wise men ... and so mainstream Church tradition.

Yes I believe Hell can also be seen as an act of mercy by God as much as one of justice.
A number of holy men also say this (I don't believe mainstream Catholic tradition has much to say on this point).
Some go so far as to say that Hell is a mercy of God to the fallen angels who would be even more pained if He forced them to remain in His Presence.

I think we have all heard the simile that different saints have different glory/grace according to their capacity like a bucket of water being just as full as a thimble of water.
No doubt that works in Hell also, all there suffer to the extreme, but some extremes are greater than others.
So in terms of natural capacity, some suffer more, some less...but all suffer equally extremely.

Hmmn, I'd rather think about Heaven .