How do I have someone discern my article on http://www.afterthewarning.com john-Sevant of God

At least for me most, if not all, sin is rooted in pride and the lack of humility. I think the Holy Father's admonishment is spot on. This reminds me to pray more this Litany of Humility:

O Jesus! meek and humble of heart, Hear me.
Fromthe desire of being esteemed,
Deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being loved...
From the desire of being extolled ...
From the desire of being honored ...
From the desire of being praised ...
From the desire of being preferred to others...
From the desire of being consulted ...
From the desire of being approved ...
From the fear of being humiliated ...
Fromthe fear of being despised...
From the fear of suffering rebukes ...
From the fear of being calumniated ...
From the fear of being forgotten ...
From the fear of being ridiculed ...
From the fear of being wronged ...
From the fear of being suspected ...

That others may be loved more than I,
Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.

That others may be esteemed more than I ...
That, in the opinion of the world,
others may increase and I may decrease ...
That others may be chosen and I set aside ...
That others may be praised and I unnoticed ...
That others may be preferred to me in everything...
That others may become holier than I, provided that I may become as holy as I should…

 

Consider now that there are many millions of them.

Someone told me that apparently the Dublin Newspapers are full of advertisements for New Age services and events. Or to put it bluntly witchcraft. People cannot live in a spiritual vacuum. Having deserting the Faith of their Fathers they feel a hunger a need and fill that need with very dangerous food.

As someone said,' The person who does not believe in God will believe in anything.....@

The irony being that they would consider us to be backward.

Consider then how many occult doors are being opened by these New Age practises, how many demons are being given an opening and you will see what a very dangerous state we are all left in.

 

Our Lady said at Lourdes , 'I cannot promise you happiness in this life...'

Go to scripture , which of the Prophets did not die or suffer greatly? If God chooses a soul to pass on His Word he or she can expect nothing but the Cross and contradiction.

I don't honestly think John was treated uncharitably on this forum. It was honest critique. But I have noticed something unusual in the past. People who do believe certain messages can feel a certain ownership of them (right or wrong as the messages may be) and can be highly indignant if any critique is attempted.

I do not understand the mechanics of this, I only know it is so. People become angry, even furious when, 'Their' messages are questioned. I have as I say , no idea why this should be.

 

Maybe your house is to be a refuge for you - and others!

 

True. But woe unto us if we are guilty of causing that suffering to prophets sent to us by God. Even if someone believes they are given prophecy and are deluded, they remain our brother or sister. The world will know we are Christians by our love; especially the love we have for one another.

We are in spiritual warfare - attacking each other is a poor use of our resources. If you don't believe there were personal attacks against John, read through the thread again.

 

I think a lot of people in this age are getting supernatural messages, myself included. The only thing is, for myself, I was NEVER told to tell these to anyone. I was not forbidden to tell what happened, and felt I was encouraged to tell to those God put in my path that asked me about it. He talked to me about marriage and it's holiness so nothing I heard was anything new. Having seen Jesus, I would be absolutely horrified to offend Him, especially by teaching something that is wrong or may lead someone to even commit the tiniest sin. His Majesty is NOT to be trifled with, and anyone who proclaims messages without first going to very learned men of the Church and given permission by the Church to publish them, I am VERY wary of. Really just because I know what the penalty will be for any who speaks for Christ falsely. We can be so easily deceived, and if anyone has truly seen Him they will know what I mean. This is not the "care bear in the sky". We MUST have some fear of God and ESPECIALLY when we are supposedly speaking for Him.

 

I also am saddened that John was chased off of here and like some others, if you don't think John was attacked and treated uncharitably, then read through the thread again.

I mentioned this when some were chased off the board earlier, but are now back: I feel it is very important that we stick together in these times and not attack one another, that instead we support and encourage one another and share information.

I believe John and I have always had a very discerning eye and ear and can spot folks who have ulterior motives or are disturbed and off base. I think John is for real. I highly encourage all to pray about how he was treated and keep an eye and ear out for more information.

And if someone else shows up, can we not chase them off?

 

If Jehovah is getting set with His thunderbolts to deal with folks who ask honest questions of a true Prophet, then I suppose it will be equally uncomfortable for those who honestly defend False Ones.

But either way I don't think so.

Some people honestly believe in Garabandal. And put forward honest arguments in its defense.

Some people honestly do not.believe in Garabandal. An put forward honest arguments against it.

Some people honestly believe in Medugorje. And put forward honest arguments in its defense.

Some people honestly do not.believe in Medugorje.. An put forward honest arguments against it.

Either way I don't think the Good, Loving God is getting set with thunderbolts any time soon.

 

John is still a member of the forum, so I cannot see how he has, 'been ,'Chased off' the forum? ???

 

Linda's messages were false. As time goes on they appear to have gone into a complete tail spin and are now heading for Outer Space. It it was uncharitable to tell her so, I for one, plead guilty.

 

In reading through this thread and other ones reporting to have locutions from various people, I remain open. But at same time, the following Scripture verse comes to mind:

So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.- 2 Cor 5:20

So each of us is called to well represent our true home land which of course is the Kingdom of God. And when I think of what makes a good ambassador in this world, I think of someone who stays on task, who doesn't personalize the message or alter what he/she represents or who they are speaking for. A good ambassador is a humble servant who always seeks to represent the best of where they come from and to teach those not familiar with their land everything they possibly can. All his/her words and activities must never bring dishonor or circumspect to their homeland. A good ambassador will demonstrate diplomacy and wisdom speaking very circumspectly, carefully considering the consequences of what is said, extremely careful not to injure the feelings of others needlessly. And most of all they are adept on not letting personal feelings enter the discussion. So, while we are called to be ambassadors for Christ and to exhibit these qualities, I think even the more for those who publicly reveal they have received messages from the "home land" that they are to deliver.

 

I wish John was still here in a way because I an curious in my discernment process here how these articles are coming about that he is writing. Is he writing them now to show his life experiences and releasing them as he writes them or have these all been written already and he is releasing them slowly at a time. I would be troubled in a way if he is releasing them in the manner he is right now if they have already been written because that just does not makes sense to me. If they have been written then release them all. If he is writing as he goes then I have questions about that as well because so far I just see John's life story playing out in these articles and not too much in the form of prophecy other than to talk about refuges and mainly his. I guess I am having more trouble being on the side of them being true because there remains many questions in my mind on what he is writing about. A devout friend of mine always says the same thing to me regarding discussing messengers. He asks one question, "Are the messages telling us to follow God or the messenger?" Right now I feel John's messages or rather articles since they are not messages in the sense of Jesus or Mary talking, seem to be suggesting more following of John. Now this could be temporary but there seems to be much confusion in my discernment process at the time and typically where there is confusion and doubt there typically is not God for his words seem to be much clearer, and the truth if you will.

 

I know all about Edgar Cayce. I did not see any approval of Mr. Cayce or his life, I did see John say that he was shown Mr. Cayce's map by someone and it was incredibly similar to his as was many others who have come forward; one person he named. It irks me that even the mention of someone in a conversation like this is like an immediate red flag. If I say that my brother has a mustache like hitler does that make my brother evil, my family Nazis??? NOOOOO.

Lets be VERY careful. The filter we use on others WILL be used on us as well. The lack of charity and graciousness to some makes me cringe. As I said before, I for one am sad John is gone. I had many questions for him and would have loved his input. A prophet isn't a prophet even in his home town....I will contact him personally. His battle has just begun. Jesus and Mary have just recently asked him to go public!

 

'If I say that my brother has a mustache like hitler does that make my brother evil, my family Nazis???'

No, but if I say my prophecies are very similiar to that of a New Age 'Prophet' then that is a source of honest concern.

 

The spiritual dangers of false mystics and visionaries
Although on the one hand Scripture states that we are not to despise prophecy, on the other hand the Church and the Saints advise us to be extremely careful and prudent in such matters, because perhaps more often than not, the origins of some alleged mystical graces can in reality be the devil in disguise. The extraordinary Mystic St Paul of the Cross says that for every 100 persons said to be mystics; there is perhaps only one or two that are truly authentic and inspired by God. -And this is coming from someone who was not only an extraordinary Saint and religious founder, but who himself was a authentic Mystic! Certainly we should heed his wise advice. - See more at: http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2...1/mystics-and-visionaries-in-world-today.html

If 1 or 2 out of 100 are authentic, then people need to be very prudent and doubtful. Some members were practically falling over each other to embrace John as authentic.
And maybe he is . I dont think so.
If he is not , many here are praying for and encouraging the work of the devil.
And the abuse and uncharitable comments and snide remarks against anyone showing prudence has been an eyeopener.

 

Care needed here... While I wholly approve of the call to prudence, this cuts both ways, which is why the words of Gamaliel in Acts 5 remain so pertinent. It is just as much an offence against prudence to pronounce a negative judgment in haste as it is to embrace someone's message uncritically. There is a subtle but very important difference between genuine discernment and suspicion.

Truth is not determined by probability statistics. Even if only one or two percent of mystics are genuine (which is a matter of opinion, as it can be argued on the basis of the prophet Joel that in the last days God will pour on His Spirit on all flesh), then this does not in itself mean that someone who claims to have had a word from God is automatically mistaken. Imagine someone rolling a die behind a screen with a hundred faces numbered 1 to 100 - statistically it is 98% likely that it will not come up with the numbers 99 or 100, and will be so on every roll. But if a person behind the screen calls out '99', it does not logically follow that they must be lying because of the probability calculation. They may be deluded or lying, of course, but until you remove the screen you simply cannot know.

Still less can it be assumed that an alleged mystic is doing the Devil's work. Anyone who makes this kind of suggestion without extremely solid evidence needs to be very careful, for their own sake, as making such accusations is a source of great spiritual danger for the one who accuses. The internet is replete with sites run by people who have become so hardened in their conviction that a given mystic or apparition is false that they have become poisoned with their own invective.

What also seems to have surfaced in this whole discussion (regardless of whether or not JM's mission is authentic or imagined, which only time will show) is a broader tension of sensibilities concerning the Charismatic Renewal not only in Catholicism but throughout Christianity. For some, the massive outpouring of the gifts of the Holy Spirit that began in the early years of the twentieth century in places like Azusa Street and the Welsh Revival, coming into the Catholic Church in the 1960s, was and is a great move of God, just as much as His prophetic revelation for the modern world through Our Lady. Indeed, it can be argued on the basis of the Credo ('conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary') that there is an inexorable, eschatological logic to the idea that the Spirit and Mary are working simultaneously in order to prepare the world for the Lord's return. Much suggests that Pope Francis is certainly sympathetic to the Renewal - after an initial coolness towards it -, just as was St Pope John Paul II. Many however find it alien or even offensive: hence a certain degree of friction between those whose sensibilities might be called primarily liturgical-monastic and those whose spirituality is more charismatic-evangelical. These two groups tend to find it difficult to translate their own experience into the other's vocabulary/thought categorie, and the present exchanges are bringing this out.

I'm not saying that this is an absolute polar opposition, of course - Mark Mallett is a very good example IMHO of someone who is able to draw on both streams of experience, transcending the divide. However, my sense is that this we need to be aware of this historical tension and the way in which it impacts attempts at dialogue. Exercising the virtues of patience and gentleness is essential for all involved in this stimulating but delicate conversation.

 

I like things in both Mac and Peter's posts but I veer to Mac's position, mainly because it highlights John of the Cross' position on these matters which is very important in my view. Gamaliel's words are also important of course but I do not find the positions of Gamaliel and John of the Cross to be conflicting. Instead, I feel both need to be accepted and followed.

John of the Cross' phrase about 2% of mystics being authentic does not of course prove that our friend John's experiences were not from God but they should encourage us to be very cautious, more cautious than a lot of some responders seemed to be showing.

I think an awareness and acceptance of the words of John of the Cross is a very good basis for sound discernment.

 

I was puzzled why this thread was generating so muc heat. But of ourse now I realise several people have moved far on from Discernment to discipleship.

 

I've just realised I have been mixing up John of the Cross with Paul of the Cross...

I need to investigate both more closely. I had thought that John of the Cross had also warned about false experiences in the mystical area.

 

Im sure many saints have given similar warnings.