Garabandal Objections

AND the Pope who was alive and met Conchita at the time of the apparitions, AND THE REASON WHY THE VATICAN NEVER CONDEMNED THE APPARITONS , BECAUSE THIS POPE WOULD NOT ALLOW IT !!

POPE PAUL VI QUOTES ON GARABANDAL

“ Conchita, I bless you and with me the whole church will bless you “.

Father Escalada explained his work in spreading the message of Garabandal in Mexico and the Pope Paul VI encouraged him to continue saying: "These messages must be made known." Father Escalada asked the Pope for his permission to continue promoting Garabandal and the Pope said “YES”. Pope Paul VI said :
"It is the most beautiful story of humanity since the days of Christ. It is like a second life of the Virgin on earth. And we can never be grateful enough for it."

 

Wow, I have a right to give my opinion on a forum, don't I? It's unbelievably arrogant and imprudent to believe you have utter certitude about the authenticity of alleged apparitions that the Church has not approved and which has so many red flags. Many of you people seem to have an unhealthy attachment to these alleged apparitions, as if your entire faith was riding on it. This is what a demonic deception is all about. Even if the Church had determined they are worthy of belief, we have absolutely NO OBLIGATION to believe in them. The deposit of faith is all we need for salvation and to even live a life of transforming union with God. I would like for Garanbandal to be true, but a reasonable person can see there are many very troubling aspects to these alleged apparitions. What will you do if Conchita or Joey dies before the supposed date of the Miracle or if it doesn't happen on the predicted day?

 

What will you say to Mary when you called her apparitions "demonic" ? What is your criteria for demonic ? Mine is ,it serves an evil purpose or glorifies satan. If you bothered to really understand Marys appearences and messages, they ALL ARE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE CATHOLIC FAITH ! Repentence, confession,mass, communion, the rosary, the scapular !
How is anything that happened at Garabandal evil ? It has lead to countless thousands of healings, conversions, and those turning back to their faith. AND THERE IS NOTHING "UNHEALTHY" ABOUT THAT .

This is a very well read and informed board, so you'll have to back up your statement with more than its demonic because of some body positions.

 

Some might say you're " unbelievably arrogant and imprudent " to condemn Garabandal and call it demonic, when others below seem to think it 's "prudent " to embrace Mary's messages, and wait for the Warning & Miracle.

Saint Pio (Padre Pio )
Saint Pope John Paul II
Pope Paul VI
Pope Bendict XVI
"Blessed" Mother Teresa
Saint Josemarie Escriva
Bishop Joao Venancio
Saint Madre Maravillas
Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani (Vatican)
Arch Bishop Carlos Sierra of Oviedo
Bishop of FATIMA, Bishop Joao Venancio
(just to name a few)

 

Yes of course you have a right to your opinion, Mike.

No I don't have, 'Utter certitude', about Garabandal.

No I hope I am not , 'Arrogant' or, 'Imprudent'.

I also hope I do not have an, 'Unhealthy attachment', to these apparitions. I am fond of them, but to try to keep an ongoing discernment of all mystical phenomena.

True we have no obligation to believe.

There are , 'troubling aspects', to pretty well all mystical phenomena. Even when Jesus was alive several things He did caused many, many people, including His own disciples, to walk away.

I think the problem here is wading in right away with words like, 'Diabolical' , right away. It is kind of like pushing a button and so setting off other people pushing theirs. When we are immoderate in our own use of language it pushes other people buttons to be immoderate in theirs. Kind of like walking into a Bar and shouting out, 'Does anyone in this bar know how to fight?' It would not be surprising then if a few guys stood up and shouted back, 'I know how too!'.

Better to be a little gentler with the use of language and others will respond a little more moderately back. It is still possible to get one's point across but with a little less slam, dam dunkery if you know what I mean.

 

My problem with your premise is not that you do not believe in Garabandal, but that you have such a irrational hatred of it. Something is at the bottom of your hatred, because a person does not hate this way without better justification than you have given. You point out some very vague and pointless arguments, yet you dismiss the valid defenses that Glenn has been posted. I know it is true, because it rings true to my heart and our Lady has convicted me of its authenticity. I can not prove what my heart tells me, but I know by faith that Our Lady of Garabandal indeed is true for all the reasons Glenn has already defended and more.

 

I have had apparitions, locutions, and some other prayer gifts myself, and can tell you that while in ecstacy, my head tends to tilt way back. Also soon after my personal warning from Jesus during an apparition, He led me right to Garabandal! This was in 1998 when Joey was on Mother Angelica's show. This was a huge help to me, because of the supernatural I was daily experiencing at the time, and I really felt alone and isolated in the experiences. Not that I cared mind you, as they were so wonderful, but I was very afraid of being led astray. The Lord also immediately led me to St Teresa of Avila and her writings from another avenue, and I became a 3rd Order Carmelite. When I look back now, I see how STRONGLY my experience resembled the Warning of Garabandal, how I was led to Garabandal and Carmel, and our Lady appeared to them as Our Lady of Mount Carmel, and many other instances directly from Jesus that made me understand right away that Garabandal was real. I had no reason to believe it, nor had I ever heard of it prior to that. So anyway, the supernatural things that happened to those girls was really pretty normal in a mystic's life, and if you will read some of the great mystic Saints writings, you will see there is nothing "demonic" about their experiences.

 

Conchita & Jesus comment on belief of Garabandal

“ I would also like to say about Rome that there are people there who want to put too much pressure on the Church.
I believe that it is better to leave it as it is, and to do what they can. They should try to speak about the Virgin’s Message,
but the rest they should leave in God’s hands.”

The Lord Himself said to me: “Don’t worry about whether they believe you or not, especially in Rome. I will do everything. “

This is what I would like to say to all those who want for Rome and the Bishop to move ahead.”


Interview—conversation directed by Monsignor Francisco Garmendia, Auxiliary Bishop of New York on the date of this interview, here in New York on August 27, 1981.

 

Absolutely nothing different (I would still go to church as often as I can, recite the rosary as much as I do, go to confession every 2-3 weeks etc, and continue to try and live closer and closer each day to the Divine Will of the Lord) because I would trust in the Lord and my Faith because as you stated we only need scripture and Sacred Apostolic Tradition for the faith. I think you have hit the nail on the head though in possibly why the church does not come out and fully approve yet because they too will not do so until after the events have either happened or not. It would totally go against most if not all past mystics to approve prior to the events unfolding. Most of the most sacred approved apparitions were not approved until many many years later and at first many were greatly argued against (the devil at work to discredit the truth).

 

As the 'instigator' of this thread, I have been reading it with special interest. I cannot see any indication of 'irrational hatred' being exhibited by Mike G. I do discern unquestioning acceptance of all sorts of unproven 'endorsements' of Garabandal. E.g. there is absolutely no proof whatever that St. Pio supported these apparitions or had any opinion on them at all and I have this from a neighbour who gave room and board on several occasions to one of the Saint's friends and a brother Franciscan whenever he visited this country. This clear 'counter-indicator' to one of the proponents' major arguments caused me to start questioning and I quickly discovered that this was not the only questionable argument in use. We are not 'haters' we have reached our own conclusions for, what we consider to be, good reasons and the fact that an 'answer' can be fashioned for each objection does not make the answer reasonable nor those objections any less valid.

 

Well , I was waiting for you Steve. Steve you heard from a neighbor,ofcourse with no name who rented a room to another stranger ,who knew Padre Pio LOL !!! Give a me break , nothing like proving FACTS ! Again you refuse to admit the overwhelming evidence by Priests,by personal testimonies, by books by different authors, and gifts to Conchita , THAT SAINT PADRE PIO NOT ONLY BELIEVED IN GARABANDAL,BUT PUBLICALLY & PRIVATELY SUPPORTED IT ! I have posted relics picures on this forum of Padre Pio gifts ,left to Conchita , how is it that I can provide numerous forms of proof to back up my opinion , yet you provide NONE ? Show me where I'm wrong . Show me some credible source that says he didnt believe ? But you cant can you ? I patiently wait .

 

Steve, no one on this forum (that I know of) hesitates to share their own faith in messages/apparitions and why they support them. Discussions are most helpful to the discernment process if done in charity. Calling people "arrogant and imprudent" or "demonic" are not words of charity, but inflame what could have been a rational discussion. I would contend the words MikeG used are based on hatred he has of the events, being discussed, that many have prayerfully discerned to be authentic. I am all for debating the facts of Garabandal, as I know Glenn welcomes as well. MikeG was not interested in discussing, but like others have before him, he wanted to make sure to tell those of us who believe in them that we are arrogant and imprudent. I am not going to loose my Catholic faith if Garabandal is proven false, but I will receive many blessings from Jesus through Mary for believing in them now before they are authenticated. "Blessed are you who have not seen but believe". My faith tells me with no uncertainty that they are authentic, not just because many saints believed them to be true, but my prayerful study has lead me to believe in them as well.

 

And I was waiting for you. We had, if you recall, a private 'chat' when I showed that St. Pio's letter was not written in his hand and you conceded that. If the Saint believed that Our Lady was appearing, then why did he omit to mention it to his closest confreres in the Monastery? Show me some CREDIBLE evidence. You place hearsay as the centre of your 'proofs'. 'E.g. you say above 'Jesus said....' If that were provably true no-one would argue but it was only a fallible human who said 'Jesus said'. I won't rehearse all the many objections but the body of the priest who was to be found incorrupt IS corrupt and the only person who knew the date of the 'warning' is dead - absolutely no point in her knowing etc. etc. etc.
I know that you are absolutely partisan in this matter and will not bother further in this matter. But do try to include a few reliable facts in your efforts to persuade yourself that this is true.

 

1. I haven't been calling people names.
2. 'Many saints'??
3. I respect your 'prayerful conclusions'. Do you respect mine?

 

Well Steve you have a short convenient memory. Yes, when we FIRST discussed the Padre Pio,letter, I did not have the proof on hand that day, BUT ON JUNE 15,2013 I CLEARLY POSTED PROOF , FROM CONCHITA AND THE BLESSED MOTHER. WITH A BOOK REFERENCE


PADRE PIO LETTER TO THE VISIONARIESOn March 3, 1962, a letter arrived in Garabandal addressed to all four visionaries. It was written in Italian, and had an Italian stamp, but wasn't postmarked. Nor was it signed. By the handwriting, and the style of the letter, it was clear it could have only come from Padre Pio. The letter said:
"My Dear Children,
"At nine o'clock this morning the Holy Virgin told me to say to you: 'O Blessed young girls of San Sebastian de Garabandal! I promise you that I will be with you until the end of the centuries, and you will be with Me during the end of the world and later, united with Me in the Glory of Paradise.'

I am sending you a copy of the Holy Rosary of Fatima, which the Virgin told me to send you. The Rosary was composed by the Virgin and should be propagated for the salvation of sinners and preservation of humanity from the terrible punishments with which the good God is threatening it. I give you only one counsel: PRAY and get others to pray, because the world is at the beginning of perdition.

They do not believe in you or in your conversations with the Lady in White. BUT THEY WILL BELIEVE YOU WHEN IT WILL BE TOO LATE"




FINALLY ! I HAVE FOUND THE PROOF I WAS LOOKING FOR TO VERIFY THIS WAS FROM PADRE PIO !
After a debate on this forum as to whether or not this was Padre Pio's letter because it was not signed, I have found the proof in the book " SHE CAME IN HASTE TO THE MOUNTAIN " pages 363-365. I was told from friends in Spain that the letter was not signed so that Padre Pio would not be in opposition to the church, so how come so many people were sure it was from him ? These pages tell how Conchita asked the Blessed Mother herself in one of her visits, and she confirmed it was from Padre Pio ! Scroll down on this link to the book,and go to the bottom of page 363 and the story starts there, and ends on the bottom of 365.

http://www.garabandal.us/pdfs/she_wenthaste.pdf

Q. Conchita, do you remember anything about the letter that you are said to have received from Padre Pio? A. You know that I have moments in which I remember many things about the apparitions very well, and I have moments in which I hardly remember anything at all . . . Concerning what you now ask me, I do remember that I received in the mail a letter addressed to me and the other three girls: Jacinta, Mari Loli and Mari Cruz. I was surprised by what it said; and as it was unsigned, I kept it in my pocket until the time of the apparition. When the Blessed Mother appeared, I showed her the letter . . . and I asked her whom it was from. The Blessed Mother answered that it came from Padre Pio. At the time I didn’t know who Padre Pio was and it didn’t occur to me to ask her anything more . . .

 

PICTURES TAKEN FROM CONCHITA'S HOME OF PADRE PIO RELIC GIFTS View attachment 1867

 

View attachment 1868

 

View attachment 1869

 

PADRE PIO LETTER TO CONCHITA 10-16-68
Confirms the authenticity of Garabandal.
On October 16, of that year, the visionary received a telegram from Lourdes. It was sent by a lady friend of hers, urging her to go to the world famous Sanctuary, to receive a letter written by Blessed Padre Pio ( written one day before the Blessed Capuchin “CONFIRMED “ , once more, the supernatural authenticity of Garabandal to French author Jacques Serre. ( “Garabandal-Apparitions of the Blessed ...Virgin Mary” pg. 216 )
The letter :
Convent of the Capuchins, August 22, 1968
For Conchita,
Padre Pio said “ I pray the most Blessed Virgin to comfort her and to guide her towards sanctity. I bless her with all my heart.”
Fr. Pellegrino
View attachment 1870