Garabandal Objections

I don't think you need a "theologian" to answer this. First , you may have forgotten ( or did not know of these examples ) First, the "little Miracle" which was the appearance the visable host on Conchita's tongue,was announced 15 days in advance, to give credibility to the apparitions.

How about the second message from Mary ? June 18, 1965-- "As my message of October 18 has not been complied with and has not been made known to the world, I am advising you that this is the last one. Before, the cup was filling up. Now it is flowing over. Many cardinals, many bishops and many priests are on the road to perdition and are taking many souls with them. Less and less importance is being given to the Eucharist"

A third is
"A bishop will come along who will not believe at first, but will receive a sign and allow priests to go up to Garabandal for the Miracle." ( The ban was lifted ) “I want you to know that I am open to receiving and considering all information about Garabandal , and would like to continue-as long as our Holy Father wishes me to serve as Apostolic Administrator-the work that my brothers at the Bishopric have already done in reference to this subject. What I have just done is authorize the priests to go to Garabandal and hold Holy Mass at the Parish, at any desired time, and to administer the Sacrament of Reconciliation to anyone that wishes to receive it. (copy of a letter dated February 12, 2007 from Archbishop Carlos Sierra of Oviedo, the acting Apostolic Administrator for the Diocese of Santander in Spain )

OK, so I think I made my point as far as that. Now the last question you had is actually easy to explain. Just as we dont know the date of our death (and judgement ), the date of the Warning & Miracle has to remain secret until it happens for the same reason .....Free Will. God gives us the messages at Garbandal, and allows us to live our lives accordingly,as we chose . If we knew the date, people would act in an a certain way in order to avoid the harshness of the Warning. Its just human nature. Now I'm not saying everyone would, but certainly a great many would act disingenuously to avoid punishment.

Ask yourself this,if you knew you were going to die a month from now, would you live "exactly " as you have up to now,in your last days ? Hmmmm ?

 

Fatima's 3rd secret regarding future events was also ordered to be kept secret, at least for 43 years.So Garabandal's secrets are not unprecedented.Therfore another link with Fatima.

 

But I will have a go at playing devils advocate also,Before Garabandal, has there ever been another time when Our Lady visited us so often? La Sallette, Lourdes , Fatima to name a few approved, she only needed a handful of apparitions.Why so many at Garabandal? to say so little?The messages could have been in just a short of space as Fatima.When visits tally in the thousands like Medjugorje I am very weary.

 

why the prophesied events at Garabandal need to remain secret

David,

A slightly different nuance: I believe the answer revolves around the issue of human nature. At Fatima, Our Lady's mission was relatively short and focused: 5 months. In Garabandal the mission was much longer, 4 years, and the prophesied events many years in the future. If Our Lady had stated in 1965 that it would be another fifty years until the Illumination, then virtually no one would have started living the messages. The mañana complex would have kicked in: Why do today what you can put off until tomorrow? Not only that, but unlike the year 1917, the explosion in communication technology in the second half of the 20th century has enabled the dissemination of the message around the world, so that more souls can be prepared and be saved.

Thank you Jesus and Mary!

 

Glenn,

Sorry for the repetition.

Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!

 

Our Lady of Laus came to a poor shepherd girl, Venerable Benoite Rencurel in thousands of Marian apparitions that took place between 1664 and 1718 in Saint-Étienne-le-Laus, France, an event which has church approval.

 

Thank you so much Mary Ann, I had never heard of this [will google all I can]

 

Mario, even though we drew a similar conclusion, you brought up an excellent point that I forgot about, modern technology. As I mentioned in my opening post when I started here, I was the Public Relations Director of Joey's apostolate, and in the 1990's , we had to devise a way for the "8 day " notice from Conchita to be distributed around the world. I have an enormous phone list of numbers to call ! Today Joey & I can notify the world in a matter of seconds through email & text messages ! So I would agree that its a 2 part reason for the "era" to be the chosen time for its fulfillment.

 

Great point. I didn't even think of that.

So, the general consensus thus far seems to be that secrets per se are not an impediment. The more I think about it, the more I tend to agree with that sentiment.

Thanks all for the responses.

 

Thanks Mary Ann for Our Lady of Laus. I had never heard of it..and approved too! How did you come to hear of it?

 

I remembered that Michael Brown of Spirit Daily had a report about it a few years ago. He is the one that noted the longevity of the apparitions (54 years?). I read the link in the new thread you put up....so interesting...so much mercy extended to sinners by Our Lady of Laus...so appropriate for our days

 

Yes, Laus is a great teacher, thank you.

 

There have been rather bizarre and confusing occurrences in other Church-approved apparitions. Human foibles and possibly even demonic interference can play a part. The visionaries at Kibeho would fall down and assume rather abnormal postures and gestures and one was in a catatonic-like state for days, one of the visionaries at LaSalette later wrote some sensational apocalyptic prophecies that the Church rejected, Bernadette at Lourdes started eating dirt and plants during an apparition, there was confusion in the description of Our Lady's attire by the visionaries at Fatima. Many legitimate mystics/saints in the Church have also had rather strange or seemingly irreverent conversations with heavenly apparitions and demonstrated rather odd behaviors while in ecstasy as well.

It seems obvious to me that something preternatural was going on at Garabandal. I don't believe this was a deliberate fraud by all the seers (one of the girls admitted to faking an ecstatic march on one at least occasion because she wanted to walk with Conchita and there also may have been some auto-suggestion going on with the girls following Conchita's lead). What is hard to discern is whether any of it was from God. There may be a mixture of Godly, demonic and human flaws. The girls were getting pressure from all sides and from all types of people, including clergy, doctors, family, villagers. Much of the bizarre behavior of the girls during ecstasy is more common to demonic influence than Godly influence. Walking backwards, body contortions, weightlessness and immovability, speaking languages previously unknown are all characteristics usually associated with demonic activity. The many incorrect prophecies are also not a good sign of authenticity, although this could be due to errors on the part of the visionary or a demonic deception. Even saints sometimes misunderstood the messages they were given in their visions and made incorrect prophecies. It is a positive that the girls felt joy when experiencing the calls and when the Virgin appeared. The vision prayed with them, praised God and did not stray from Church teaching in her messages. Conchita mentioned in her diary that she only felt that something was not right when she was pressured to confess that she had not seen the apparitions. She then later had doubts again, which was apparently predicted by the Virgin in the visions. It's a strange and confusing case. If I had to bet, I would say it was likely a demonic deception (I think Medjugorje is also a deception). Many people will be very disappointed and it may hurt their faith if the Warning and Miracle do not happen.

It would be a terrible situation for Conchita if the date for the Miracle was eight days away and there had been no Warning and/or Joey Lomangino had passed away by then.

 

First understand about the "faked walk ". Mary Cruz's parents were the first to stop her from attending the "callings". So she received fewer than Conchita. Conchita obviously became the focal point of Mary's messages and visits since she received them the longest, and was entrusted with the messages. So naturally mary cruz wanted the attention that Conchita was getting, and "faked a walk. This in no way has any bearing on apparitions that lasted for 4 years !

I take great offense when someone associates the word "demonic" to the ecstatic states of the girls. How else is something supposed to be understood as "Supernatural " if it doesn't have events that are not natural ? Anyone who understand the pupose of Mary's visits here , understands the ecstatic states were to PROVE her appearance there, but her messages were really about CONFESSION, REPENTANCE, DAILY MASS, COMMUNION, THE ROSARY, THE SCAPULAR, HOW IN THE WORLD IS ANY OF THAT DEMONIC ?

 

I always think the best proof of Garabandal is Conchita herself. She has the face of an angel. I know that is not complete in itself , but the soul is often writ large on the face. As people get older even more so, recent photos seem to me to almost make her shine.



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When your two closest friends were SAINT PADRE PIO & BLESSED MOTHER TERESA ( who chose to be friends with Conchita ,not the other way around ) THAT SPEAKS VOLUMES ! Who here has the spiritual wisdom of these two ?

 

Yes, Glenn, Padre Pio is a big point in favour.

 

Will you apologise to our Blessed Mother for calling the apparition demonic when Conchita announces the Miracle in advance and Joey gets his eyesight back?

Mike, The Church has not condemned Garabandal yet you have!

I think I will take the Church as my teacher as she awaits the events prophecised before making a declaration.

 

Let me add the voice of another Saint ,and one of the Greatest Popes ever:

Saint Pope John Paul II - on Garabandal

There is a book on Garabandal, written by Albrecht Weber in 1993, entitled Garabandal Der Zeigefmger Gottes (Garabandal: The Finger of God), of which a first edition copy was presented to Pope John Paul II. He later asked his secretary, Fr. (now Archbishop) Stanislaus Dziwisz, to write to the author. In the subsequent printing (2000) of the book, on page 19, a portion of the Pope's message is reprinted, as follows:"May God reward you for everything. Especially for the deep love with which you are making the events connected with Garabandal more widely known. May the Message of the Mother of God find an entrance into hearts before it is too late. As an expression of joy and gratitude, the Holy Father gives you his apostolic blessing."Weber writes, "From the attached greeting in the Pope's own handwriting, with his signature, it is clear how deep an interest he has in the events of Garabandal, and how anxious he is that they should be made known in a credible way."

On July 23, 1988, during a special general audience with the Pope at the Vatican ... "special" because it was held on Saturday, rather than the usual Wednesday... Father Robert introduced Garabandal Visionary Mari-Loli and family to him. Father Robert who was holding 7 year old Maria Dolores, one of the three Lafleur children, said to the Pope: "Your Holiness, a special blessing for your littlest children who come on behalf of The Blessed Virgin from Garabandal." Our Holy Father exclaimed "Garabandal!"