Great question. It seems paradoxical. But why would God allow His only begotten Son to be horribly murdered so as to become a stumbling block to most of the Jews, his Chosen People? He does it because it serves a greater purpose that only He understands. But the fact that the Mass will be suppressed is written in Daniel Chapter 9. It is not some far out theory. The "continual Sacrifice will be taken away." This is also referenced in Matthew 24, called the "abomination of desolation in the holy place." We have been warned.
I honestly believe that I would more readily believe that the sun was not in the sky than that I did not receive Christ into my heart each evening at Mass. He is my inner heart , the Eucharistic Christ who sustains more clearly than ever my poor human heart does. However I agree the Old Mass was and is the better Liturgy. The Mass of the Ages. However under a good Holy Pope I hope to see the New Mass reformed and better policed. .
Spiritual communion for a soul properly disposed can provide abundant graces. So I'm not going to claim that you can't receive grace in that context. That would go against the clear teaching of the Church.
I am glad he consumed it immediately. I once dropped a Sacred Host while distributing Holy Communion. I covered the spot with a purificator until after I finished distributing Holy Communion and then searched the rug to ensure no partiicle remained.
I have attended both the Latin Mass and the New Mass on a regular basis. I preferred the Old Mass but never had a doubt for a single second that each was the genuine Mass. It saddens me that you suppose otherwise.
Jesus didn't become a stumbling block to Jews once he was murdered. God Is, the nature of God doesn't change. What happened from my observation is that the Jews in control were already the synagogue of Satan. The synagogue of satan themselves are their own stumbling block to the Truth. The stumbling blocks were already there prior to Jesus. Which is why they continually killed the prophets. As you said well, most Jews did not convert but many did. Did those Jews who converted cease to be his chosen people? So back to the question, why would God allow the TLM to be suppressed if it takes away from His kingdom. The answer is that the only reason God would allow it is because the suppression further serves his plans which are purely Good. God already had made a plan and known the outcome before Satan asked for power. It could be that it allows the cup to be filled faster and the needed souls are close to being accomplished. God also loves to make a fool of Satan. My point being that what is happening in the Church is being allowed by God for His plans, as you agree with. Therefore, the Tridentine mass is not some earth changing formula to manipulate God/existence with. What I mean by this is that, at best the Tridentine mass or NO mass for that matter is a gift. I often see a struggle between the concept that Catholicism should have continued strongly given the power of it versus God's plans in their entirety.
Honestly, I recently came here because of a photo in which Glenn Huson appears with Conchita de Garabandal. I also tell you that all these forums always end the same. Two or three people appear assuring that they are the most faithful and pure. Everyone else is deceived because the council of Trent said blah blah. I've seen it hundreds of times. For them the current Pope is the Antichrist because the see is vacant. They believe they are the elite of the Church......but sadly that is not the case. The phylacteries of the mantle lengthen.
Ninguno de nosotros tiene el monopolio de la verdad. Que Dios nos guíe en sus caminos Pero hasta entonces seamos amables unos con otros y no estemos listos para insultarnos. como era papa frankie Como decía San Francisco de Sales, se ganan más almas con una cucharada de miel que con un barril de vinagre. Así que basta de insultos. La Iglesia en España está estancada y el cardenal arzobispo de Madrid es una abominación. ¿Cómo sucedió eso? Si quisiera lanzar insultos, estos se dirigirían a los obispos españoles que permitieron que su país llegara a este estado desesperado.
I have enjoyed this conversation thus far as it deals with a concept of Reality regarding connection with God via the Tridentine and NO mass. If one is genuinely better than the other then there are implications to be had. There is a lot of struggle between different points of view as many good points are being made.
May peace reign above all, but in the same way that they speak the truth (even if it causes harm). Our duty is to prevent them from spreading their lies. All these people are outside of communion. Not formally, but in fact. The Church is Apostolic and hierarchical. It is the Holy Spirit that has taught us obedience. These people's exteriors look magnificent, and they carry out their heretical apostolate guided by who knows who. Their interior leaves much to be desired.
As I was reflecting on all of this I came to think of Job. When Satan was given power to try to destroy the church, it is similar to how Job was tested by Satan. Satan was given power to test Job. Satan constantly tries to prove God wrong thereby trying to gain more angels and establishing some kind of moral foot hold against God. Because if God can be wrong, then Satan can be right, which brings about a kind of invalidation of God. But God knew the final outcome of Job before Satan tested him. As well, God vindicated Job's person against the accusations of Satan in the end as well. God also further solidified His position of Authority and Glorified His Goodness.
Great question, Pax Prima ,but the fuller suppression is yet to come! (according to Alphonsus Liguori)
As a little sidetrack from the Latin celebration compared to the NO, does that mean that Jesus is not fully present in the Eucharist in adoration?
Yes, the "Church is Apostolic and hierarchical." You can't have one without the other. The Apostolic church references an unbroken tradition (traditio = to hand over) from one bishop to the next. The Sacramental Rites are the "matter and form" (which requires the proper ceremonial signification) that is handed on from the 12 Apostles to each and every true bishop in our day. Those who use those traditional Rites are truly Apostolic, and they are hierarchical simply because they are consecrated bishops by a previously consecrated bishop. The Church must be One, meaning there is only one true Church. There are not 3 or 5 or 20 Catholic Churches. There is only one true Church and anyone who claims otherwise is a heretic. Further, the Church must Catholic in the sense that it is spread throughout the entire world in BOTH time and space since its founding. There are no national churches or a post-Vatican II or synodal church that is the true Church. The mark of the true Church is perfect continuity with its past without the rupture of contradiction in its doctrines. Finally, the Church must be Holy. And anyone who thinks that the group currently in power in Vatican City promotes holiness, well, you need to read your Catechism. So, 4 marks will reveal the true Church. And the Synodal Beast Church does not have all of those 4 marks. It breaks with apostolic tradition in its Rites and disciplines. It claims to have evolved beyond the rigid examples of past Popes, Councils and Saints, rejecting temporal Catholicity. And it is not holy, teaching adoration of Pachamama, claiming that God wills the diversity of the religions, and promoting homosexual couple blessings. Everyone must pick the side that they choose to be on. Sadly, it is prophesied that the overwhelming majority of "Catholics" choose the wrong side in the end.
This implies the church is perfect and always remains so does it not? And when it strays in any manner it is no longer the church? If the church is put under a chastisement/test/purgation via darkness, is it still not the church? Sidenote, Job had 7 sons.
The true Church will exist until the end of the age when Jesus returns. But what is the true Church and what is the counterfeit/false Church. Remember that Jesus warned of the "false" prophets. Those are the counterfeit priests and bishops of the false Church, the wolves in sheep's clothing that deceive and lead Catholics to Hell. So, this is the main theme of the Apocalypse. The true Church is the Immaculate Bride adorned for her Husband, Jesus, when He returns. The false Church is the Harlot of Babylon whose members have taken the mark of the Beast and will receive the wrath of God on His return. We identify the true Church by the 4 marks, which are in the Creed. We identify the false Church as an entity that calls itself deceptively "the true Church," but lacks some or all of the 4 marks. The true Church is not perfect on earth because it is made up of imperfect sinners making their way hopefully to heaven. If they can persevere, they will be made perfect. The dogmas and perennial doctrines of the Church are perfect and infallible and unchangeable. When the entity claiming to be the true Church strays from the dogmas and perennial doctrines of the Church, it is no longer holy. So it loses one of the 4 marks. It is not the real Church. It is a counterfeit/false Church deceiving its members. The fact that the true Church is put to the test is the normal/ordinary condition for true Catholics. If we are too comfortable and friendly with "the world" that is a sign that we are straying from the path we are called to be on. We are called to proclaim the truth, but the world does not want to hear the truth. This creates the ongoing tension that will only be resolved when Jesus returns.
I agree. I don't agree with PNF but I understand where he's coming from and that he sincerely believes what he's saying. Truly, there may come a time in the future when the Mass is changed enough to make it invalid, and the Catholics attending that Mass will be very offended if one were to tell them otherwise. So that's an interesting and unsettling thought.
I trust the miracle investigation process of the Church. I also trust that God is still in charge of who becomes our pope, and I don't believe He'd allow His own visible Head of the Church on earth to be the false prophet. He promised that the Church was built upon Peter and the gates of Hell would not prevail against it. I believe that the novus ordo was the freemason's attempt to undermine the holiness of the Church, but God was still with His Church and they did not accomplish their full designs. Therefore the novus ordo was valid, just an unfortunately easy Mass in which to commit liturgical abuse and scandalize the faithful. God allowed this for us to see what we create with our own human hands when we think we know better than God and the saints and need to get with the world and the times. But He retained what was essential for the Sacrifice to remain, for the sake of His little ones who would still come to Him with trusting Faith. And as the Faith of Catholics returns and grows, grace will flood the Church and the world and the Mass will eventually be restored to its former glory. That's what I believe.
