Pope

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by themilitantcatholic, Apr 21, 2025.

  1. Michael_Pio

    Michael_Pio Archangels

    Wow. Interesting, thank you for pointing this out. I think Whatever made a similar point recently, that there was a lot of irreverence in Traditional Latin Masses (TLM) in the times before the Novus Ordo (NO) was introduced.

    Per my experience, nowadays, there is hardly any irreverence in the TLM, but one often finds it in the NO. But this may be partially due to the fact that people who seek a deeper Mass-experience go to the TLM. I see what you are saying.
     
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  2. Michael_Pio

    Michael_Pio Archangels

    Very convincing thoughts, perfectly explained, thank you! Early in my conversion process, I often visited a Novus-Ordo church late at night. It was always open. There was indeed a side chapel, where the Holy Eucharist was kept in a big tabernacle. One could go in there and lie prostrate. Later, I found the church was getting locked during the nights.
     
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  3. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I think it makes a lot of difference when the priest really believes in what he is doing. Of course the Mass is still the Mass whether or not the priest believes but it does make a great difference. Not every priest has the same depth of faith, everyone is different. So we can have a priest using the New Mass who has a very deep prayer life and Faith and we may have a priest saying the Latin Rite who has no Faith at all. Plus the other way round. The same with members of the congregation of either rite.

    Of course having good Liturgy helps.
     
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  4. Philothea

    Philothea Archangels

    I will shamelessly recommend this book again here on the forum which should be every Catholics required reading after first of course the Bible and Catechism.

    https://www.amazon.com/Incredible-Catholic-Mass-Explanation/dp/0895556081

    PurpleFlower points out astutely that miracles are happening which though for our benefit, can detract from our future glory in heaven because we did not believe here. Eucharistic miracles have been happening for quite a long time, even when the liturgy was a bit more sound, which means there used to be abuses toward the Eucharist and most surely during the mass. As Padrig pointed out in the above video, you can have a Saint saying the mass but if those in attendance are not of the proper disposition so much is lost for them.

    Visiting some older churches this summer with my children I pointed out to them the multiple side altars and once upon a time multiple masses were said simultaneously and you would know each time the most important part, the consecration, by the ringing of the bells. If my heart longs for that, what of eternity?


    Read the book!
     
  5. Mmary

    Mmary Archangels

    Thanks for this. FYI, the original title of this book, Explanation of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and other books by Martin Von Cochem are available for free (and legal) download at Archive.org!
     
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  6. PurpleFlower

    PurpleFlower Powers

    The bells... So many details that are so carefully observed in the Latin Mass point to the majesty of God and the primacy of the Eucharist. Just one example: In every novus ordo church I attended growing up, lay people were allowed to move Consecrated Hosts from one place to another, and it was done without fanfare. I would be praying in the chapel and all of a sudden someone would walk in, open the Tabernacle and take Jesus somewhere, or put Him inside, and then walk away.

    In my FSSP parish, no one is allowed to carry Jesus except a priest, and when he does so, he is accompanied by two altar servers, holding a candle and ringing a bell. When my kids hear that bell afar off, the little ones pop up their heads and whisper excitedly, "Jesus is coming!" as we all get on our knees. You'll see the elderly kneeling on the sidewalk because they know Jesus is about to pass by. This happens every Sunday before our 1:30 Mass because Jesus must be transported from a makeshift chapel we have for overflow Masses back to the Tabernacle in the main church. Not only then, but whenever my toddler hears the bells ring at Mass, he whips his head around to look for "Jesus!" Who has just become present on the altar.

    These little attentions to stricter rubrics that you'll find all throughout the Latin Mass point to Christ on a level I never found in novus ordo churches. Even just the fact that every single time the priest or altar servers move across the center of the sanctuary, they genuflect toward the Tabernacle, has had a profound affect on my children. They KNOW Who is in that Tabernacle and the reverence He is due. They know if they ever cross the church, they must not pass Jesus without bending their knee to give Him honor. On the rare occasion that we must attend a novus ordo Mass for a baptism or such in the family, my kids are very surprised to see the priest keep his back to Christ and only give a quick bow to the altar while ignoring the Tabernacle. Even worse that in many churches the priest sits IN FRONT of the Tabernacle, if it's even there at all. Thankfully the days of Jesus being placed in a tiny room alone seem to be nearing an end, but the profound reverence due to Him is still not very apparent in many churches.

    These things matter tremendously, and I know because I see the effect they have on my children. A Mass, in the way it is comported, should not cause scandal to little ones.

    And I haven't even touched upon the Mass itself--the depth of prayer it is composed of, the meaning of both the specific words used and the sacred silence...

    I long to see all churches restored to this. I am grateful to God for preserving the Latin Mass, and even for allowing it to be replaced during a time that would have dismantled and disfigured it. He allowed us to see what we do to our own sacred places and form of worship when we place ourselves before God. The ugliness of the church buildings themselves shows us what we are when God is given the bare minimum in our lives. If anything, the fact that Jesus remained with us through all of it, staying on our altars and in our Tabernacles through all the sloppy liturgical abuse and lukewarm hearts, should make us love Him all the more. What mercy! How much He loves and desires to be with us who give Him so little in return.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2025
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  7. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    The liturgy is a spiritually cognitive experience.
     
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  8. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Also, the bells were used in ages past to alert Mass-goers of the impending Consecration in those old and narrow churches whose pews went so far back away from the altar. People were illiterate and were not able to follow Latin missals.
     
  9. AED

    AED Powers

    Here is a " fun fact" from Father Ripperger. The church bells have special blessings on them when installed. When they ring they drive demons away!
     
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  10. PurpleFlower

    PurpleFlower Powers

    Yes, it's helpful even now on the occasion that we're in one of the back pews and can't see well! Even though I'm not illiterate, I don't often follow along in a missal, because I can tell what's happening just from watching and absorbing, and I allow the priest to offer prayers for me while I add my own personal ones. I actually find my participation in the Latin Mass is much stronger than when I attended the novus ordo. I don't have to open my mouth and speak even once in the low Mass, and that allows my heart and mind to unite with God in a way that's beyond words.
     
  11. PurpleFlower

    PurpleFlower Powers

    Yes, I love this! I long for the days when churches ring their bells for all to hear again! It is such a holy sound, and the devils flee as from sacramentals.
     
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  12. Sam

    Sam Powers



    Bell, book, and candle" refers to a traditional Roman Catholic ceremony used for excommunication, symbolizing the public nature of the act (bell), the authority of the church (book), and the hope for repentance (candle). It dates back to the 8th century and involves a bishop and priests performing a ritual to formally exclude someone from the church community.
     
  13. FiliMariae

    FiliMariae Archangels

    I attend the NO (largely because there simply is no Latin Mass near where I live - it’s about 3 hours to the closest consistent one), and last week at my parish the priest dropped a Sacred Host on the floor when handing the Hosts to the “Eucharistic ministers”. The priest immediately consumed the Blessed Sacrament but still it upset me greatly. No one seemed to react, which was odd. There is indeed a great crisis, too many abuses. It makes me very sad.
     
  14. Michael_Pio

    Michael_Pio Archangels

    Amazing grace! Thank you for sharing these things.
     
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  15. Michael_Pio

    Michael_Pio Archangels

    Yes, I have ordered this book based on your recommendation, or perhaps of someone else's, and the book has arrived. Many thanks and God bless!
     
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  16. Philothea

    Philothea Archangels

    I have found this too. There is something jerking about the NO that continually interrupts you from prayer.
    My kids call the NO the bad mass:confused:
     
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  17. padraig

    padraig Powers

    The BBC has a little clip every week called , 'Bells on Sunday', which I used to love to listen to.

     
  18. Marygar

    Marygar Byron

    He has never abandoned us.
     
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  19. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    The Novus Ordo was foisted on the Catholic people in a ruthless, systematic and unquestionable way that would have been admired by the Bolsheviks.
     
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  20. AED

    AED Powers

    This is true. It is so busy and in a hurry. No time for recollection.
     

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