Why don't you believe a word Bertone said? That amounts to calling Bertone a liar and/or a forger. What is this evidence that has indicted Bertone as a liar and a forger? I have certainly never seen any such documentary evidence. Just false accusations and innuendo from the same cult that believes Vatican II was somehow the work of the Devil. You know, I always thought the Great Apostasy and Schism would come the liberals within the Church, but the more I watch the situation unfold with all this talk of Pope Francis being the false prophet and such, the more it appears that any split will be initiated by disobedient traditionalists more willing to follow unapproved private revelation in place of the Vicar of Christ. I would have never expected this dynamic but it is becoming more and more apparent.
David, Where are the fruits of the "done" consecration? Oh, you can't find any. It is an insult to every Christian that has been slaughtered in Iraq, Nigeria, Sudan, Egypt, Israel (yes Israel), Syria, Philippines, I apologize for leaving any country out, and coming soon, the United States. Wow! What a triumph!
One last fruit of the Fatima consecration done in 1984 , the worldwide pedophile scandal that almost bankrupted the church committed by homosexual/satanic clergy. Wow! What a blessing!
There is no evidence that Cardinal Bertone is a liar and/or forger, is there? There is plenty of evidence that Russia is converting and that the once Christian West has embraced militant Communism ("the errors of Russia") at home and abroad. Just look at the recent headlines at home (with regard to social issues like gay marriage and abortion and general corruption of the government) and abroad (particularly in Syria): the contrast between Russia and the West could not be sharper. Fatima is being fulfilled in real time and compared to 50 years ago, Russia has converted. Conversion and Peace are a process, not instant magic. The Pope is not going to mention Russia specifically this time and for good reason: the 1984 Consecration was valid . The Consecration was only a part of the request made at Fatima. Prayer and Penance was the more important Request that precedes the Triumph.
"It will be done late." So David, are you saying 30 years ago was "late" and we are living in the "triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary"?
It was done too late, sadly. It wasn't done completely in 1952 but was done completely in 1984. But you incorrectly presume that the Consecration is the magical key that unlocks the Era of Peace. I guess you believe that if Pope Francis does mention Russia on Oct. 17, that something supernatural will occur in the next instant. What a mistake. The Consecration is only a small part of the message of Fatima. God is not genie. To think otherwise would be to test God. That is what the disobedient traditionalists in the Gruner cult are doing: testing God, not to mention committing grave sin against Cardinal Bertone.
No, I'm afraid it is far worse: someone (who probably is a closet Freemason) is falsely accusing a Cardinal and stoking division among the faithful.
David Wilson. Apparently you have not watched any of the video's in this thread. If you just watch one of them you will see his dicietfull ways. Just watch the attached link here and come back and speak to me on the subject of Cardinal Bertone.
Fatima, Since you have already watched this video, please summarize for the class where exactly it is demonstrated (with evidence, not innuendo) that Bertone is a forger/liar?
David, Without quoting Sr Lucia, have you ever heard of being obedient to your suuperiors, please piecemeal together how you believe the consecration was done according to our Lady's request? Thankyou.
David, I take it you have not read Fr. Kramer's book regarding the priests who were sent to Fatima with Fr. Bertone' when they ALL WERE TO GO IN TOGETHER TO WITNESS THE CONVERSATIONS AND DOCUMENT WHAT LUCIA SAID. When they got there, at the last second, Bertone' refused to allow ANY OF THEM IN. He only wrote notes on a piece of paper, which is in question in many books that have been published AND he, as he arose in rank and stature THREATENED these priests to not make a big deal about being left out---NOW---YEARS LATER, the priests who had tried to blow the whistle and were threatened have come forward and now talk about the underhandedness and sneakiness of Bertone' and his diabolical deception that he weaved during the reign of PJPII. The whistle blowers are old and are coming forward and WILL NOT BE QUIET---because enough has happened with FR. GOBBI and the MMP and many others --to include FR. AMORTH-the Exorcist for the Vatican, that give credence to what they tell. It was widely known by curia including Bishops (my spiritual father was a Bishop) that Bertone' was powerful and a Mason. When Bertone' came out and said during Benedict's reign that , "WE HAVE HEARD THE END OF FATIMA"---Benedict could NOT publicly disagree with him UNTIL....HE WAS IN FATIMA AND HE PUBLICLY SAID, "NO...WE HAVE NOT HEARD THE END OF FATIMA!" That was a direct slap in the face to Bertone'. It was our LADY WHO INTERVENED. IT WAS OUR LADY WHO HELPED CHANGE BENEDICT'S MIND REGARDING THE SECRET AND THAT IT HAD NOT BEEN COMPLETELY REVEALED....WELL, THEN HE BECAME POPE! He found out the truth and has since changed his mind.
Hi David, Schism is to break unity and this is usually effected by denying the Magisterium. There are many millions who consider themselves to be Catholics who are definitely schismatics already and they are almost all to be found among the 'liberals. The schism has occurred already if you hadn't noticed and continues its ugly work apace. Many millions of 'Catholics' like Nancy Pelosi have decided that the Church is wrong in its moral teaching and are therefore in schism and most such people have been for years if not decades. According to Michael Voris's latest output, (which relates to US Catholics but undoubtedly reflects the rest of the 'western world') the majority of those who describe themselves as 'highly committed Catholics' (omitting the views of those who describe themselves as less than highly committed) choose to dissent from the Church's dogmatic teaching in one or more matters. The majority differ in such matters as the ordination of women, homosexuality, same sex 'marriage', abortion, contraception, pre-marital sexual activity, divorce and re-marriage etc. Unfortunately these schismatics are not all laymen but include priests, bishops and probably cardinals. In contrast very few orthodox Catholics are schismatics, we tend to accept the Catechism of the Church in its entirety because we recognise the Church's literally God-given right to teach and to require us to follow its teaching and certainly not to openly dissent from it even if we might have personal reservations. Saint Ignatius Loyola said that if the Church were teach that something was white when he saw it as black, he would say and teach that it was white and vice versa. We are in a position where the Church teaches that something is white and the majority of 'Catholics' proclaim and teach that it is black - that is schism and it is decades old.
Because the consecration never mentioned RUSSIA. Popes consecrated the World both times. That why it hasn't been done according to Our Lady of Fatima's request.
Which private revelation says it hasn't been done? It has been done. On July 7, 1952 Pope Pius XII consecrated Russia specifically to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. On March 25, 1984 Pope John Paul II renewed the 1952 Consecration and did so in union with all the world's bishops. On August 29, 1989 Sister Lucia confirmed in correspondence that the Consecration "has been accomplished" and that "God will keep His word."
David, could you at least address the issues in this article,to attack Socci without any facts is as low as Bertone.Bertone stands alone in his conclusions, and no Pope has ever backed him up .In fact quite the contrary.
Fatima Consecration - Chronology FROM EWTN History of the Consecration and Related Events July 13, 1917 Our Lady promises to "come and ask the consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart"1 June 13, 1929 Our Lady fulfills her promise, asking "for the consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart, promising its conversion through this means and the hindering of the propagation of its errors."2 date unknown Pius XI (1922-1939) informed of this request3 1938 Portuguese Bishops ask Pius XI for the Consecration of the World to the Immaculate Heart. It is said they were influenced to do this by the spiritual director of Bl. Alexandrina da Costa (1904-1955). June 1940 Request made to Pius XII through the Bishop of Macau, and a little later through Father Gonzaga de Fonseca. Mention is made of Our Lady asking the Consecrating of Russia to the Immaculate Heart. (from the letter below) December 1940 Sr. Lucia writes letter to Pius XII, saying that Our Lord Himself requests the Pope to "consecrate the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, with a special mention for Russia, and order that all the Bishops of the world do the same in union with Your Holiness."4 October 31, 1942 Pope Pius XII consecrates the world to the Immaculate Heart. (without the Bishops or Russia mentioned.) July 7, 1952 Pope Pius XII consecrates the Russian people to the Immaculate Heart (without the Bishops in union with him) November 21, 1964 Pope Paul VI renews, in the presence of the Fathers of the Vatican Council but without their participation, the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart. May 13, 1982 Pope John Paul II invites the bishops of the world to join him in consecrating the world and with it Russia to the Immaculate Heart. Many do not receive the invitation in time for the Pope's trip to Fatima, where he accomplishes the consecration. Sr. Lucia later says it did not fulfill the conditions. October 1983 Pope John Paul II, at the Synod of Bishops, renews the 1982 Consecration March 25, 1984 Pope John Paul II, "united with all the pastors of the Church in a particular bond whereby we constitute a body and a college," consecrates "the whole world, especially the peoples for which by reason of their situation you have particular love and solicitude." Both the Pope and Sr. Lucia initially seemed uncertain that the consecration has been fulfilled, but shortly thereafter Sr. Lucia tells the papal nuncio (and that was Cardinal Bertone' who is in so much dubious doubt and those priests with him TESTIFIED that he lied.) to Portugal that the Consecration is fulfilled. May 13, 1984 One of the largest crowds in Fatima history gathers at the shrine to pray the Rosary for peace. May 13, 1984 An explosion at the Soviets’ Severomorsk Naval Base destroys two-thirds of all the missiles stockpiled for the Soviets’ Northern Fleet. The blast also destroys workshops needed to maintain the missiles as well as hundreds of scientists and technicians. Western military experts called it the worst naval disaster the Soviet Navy has suffered since WWII. December 1984 Soviet Defense Minister, mastermind of the invasion plans for Western Europe, suddenly and mysteriously dies. March 10, 1985 Soviet Chairman Konstantin Chernenko dies March 11, 1985 Soviet Chairman Mikhail Gorbachev elected April 26, 1986 Chernobyl nuclear reactor accident May 12, 1988 An explosion wrecked the only factory that made the rocket motors for the Soviets’ deadly SS 24 long-range missiles, which carry ten nuclear bombs each. August 29, 1989 Sr. Lucia affirms in correspondence that the consecration "has been accomplished" and that "God will keep His word." November 9, 1989 Fall of the Berlin Wall Nov-Dec 1989 Peaceful revolutions in Czechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria and Albania 1990 East and West Germany are unified December 25, 1991 Dissolution of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics Letter of Sr. Lucia to Pope Pius XII requesting the Consecration of the World and Russia to the Immaculate Heart Most Holy Father, Humbly prostrated at your feet, I come as the last sheep of the fold entrusted to you to open my heart, by order of my spiritual director. I am the only survivor of the children to whom our Lady appeared in Fátima (Portugal) from the 13th of May to the 13th of October 1917. The Blessed Virgin has granted me many graces, the greatest of all being my admission to the Institute of Saint Dorothy. (To here this is copy of the sketch the Bishop sent me.) I come, Most Holy Father, to renew a request that has already been brought to you several times. The request, Most Holy Father, is from our Lord and our good Mother in Heaven. In 1917, in the portion of the apparitions that we have designated "the secret," the Blessed Virgin revealed the end of the war that was then afflicting Europe, and predicted another forthcoming, saying that to prevent it She would come and ask the consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart as well as the Communion of reparation on the first Saturday. She promised peace and the conversion of that nation if Her request was attended to. She announced that otherwise this nation would spread her errors throughout the world, and there would be wars, persecutions of the Holy Church, martyrdom of many Christians, several persecutions and sufferings reserved for Your Holiness, and the annihilation of several nations. Most Holy Father, this remained a secret until 1926 according to the express will of our Lady. Then, in a revelation She asked that the Communion of reparation on the first Saturdays of five consecutive months be propagated throughout the world, with its conditions of doing the following with the same purpose; going to confession, meditating for a quarter of an hour on the mysteries of the Rosary and saying the Rosary with the aim of making reparation for the insults, sacrileges and indifferences committed against Her Immaculate Heart. Our good Heavenly Mother promises to assist the persons who practise this devotion, in the hour of their death, with all the necessary graces for their salvation. I exposed the request of our Lady to my confessor, who tried to have it fulfilled, but only on the 13th of September 1939 did His Excellency the Bishop of Leiria make public in Fatima this request of our Lady. I take this opportunity, Most Holy Father, to ask you to bless and extend this devotion to the whole world. In 1929, through another apparition, our Lady asked for the consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart, promising its conversion through this means and the hindering of the propagation of its errors. Sometime afterwards I told my confessor of the request of our Lady. He tried to fulfill it by making it known to Pius XI. In several intimate communications our Lord has not stopped insisting on this request, promising lately, to shorten the days of tribulation which He has determined to punish the nations for their crimes, through war, famine and several persecutions of the Holy Church and Your Holiness, if you will consecrate the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, with a special mention for Russia, and order that all the Bishops of the world do the same in union with Your Holiness. I truly feel your sufferings, Most Holy Father! And, at much as I can through my humble prayers and sacrifices, I try to lessen them, close to our Lord and the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Most Holy Father, if in the union of my soul with God I have not been deceived, our Lord promises a special protection to our country in this war, due to the consecration of the nation by the Portuguese Prelates, to the Immaculate Heart of Mary; as proof of the graces that would have been granted to other nations, had they also consecrated themselves to Her. Now, Most Holy Father, allow me to make one more request, which is but an ardent wish of my humble heart; that the feast in honour of the Immaculate Heart of Mary be extended throughout the whole world as one of the main feasts of the Holy Church. With the deepest respect and reverence I ask for the Apostolic Blessing. May God protect Your Holiness. Tuy, Spain, 2nd of December of 1940. Maria Lucia de Jesus From Novos Documentos de Fátima, Fr. Anthony Mario Martins, SJ (Oporto: 1984). English edition: Documents on Fatima & Memoirs of Sr. Lucia. (Alexandria, SD: Fatima Family Apostolate, 1992). NOPE, SORRY. IT HAS NOT BEEN DONE.
Yep, it was already done. Sister Lucia confirmed in correspondence that is was done. There is no evidence that Cardinal Bertone is a liar, forger or Freemason and for certain individuals to continue to imply otherwise with no evidence is a grave sin.
MS...I don't want to sound contrary...but I guess I am...how can you say it has not been done when Lucia... who would certainly know... has said the Consecration by JPII had been accepted. I know you do not like Bertrone...but if you look under the highlighted "correspondence" from August 29th 1989...you will see 2 additionally testimonies that the Consecration was done...specifically confirmed by Lucia herself. The Consecration has been done...tradgedy has been averted...the nuclear war did not happen and Communism crumbled overnight in Eastern Europe and Russia...not only did it crumble but it did so peacefully...Glory to God.
