Wars and rumors of wars on the TLM and Summorum Pontificum”?

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by BrianK, May 26, 2021.

  1. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

    It sure is….:cry:
     
    AED and HeavenlyHosts like this.
  2. PurpleFlower

    PurpleFlower Powers

    Purification and penance. The Faith actually grows stronger when the good are persecuted and humbly suffer for love of God.
     
  3. Byron

    Byron Powers

    I have to remind myself of that all the time. And I need to suffer humbly for love of God. I’m constantly asking, why me Lord, why my family? Instead I should try to accept sufferings with my eyes focused on heaven.
     
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  4. PurpleFlower

    PurpleFlower Powers

    I think this is a constant struggle for all of us, myself included.
     
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  5. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

    I sincerely hope and pray Pope Francis is made aware of what the government in China are doing to their people. A few hundred million citizens locked up, running out of food and medicine, screaming out their windows in sheer frustration and fear. God help the people of China.

    Maybe and hopefully the Pope will be brought to his senses, and billions of dollars in secret little arrangements between the Vatican and the Chinese will be kicked to the kerb where they belong.

    Maybe just maybe the Pope will put the message of the Gospel before the needs of the Marxists in China. Maybe he will call out this evil dictatorship for attempted genocide against their own people.

    Maybe the Pope is too busy making a mess in the Church founded by Jesus Christ two thousand years ago to even have time to hear what is really going on in the world.

    Maybe God will have pity on us, and send Jesus for that great and dreadful Day Of The Lord, and wake us all up to what, or more relevant Who really matters and how He has Commanded us to conduct ourselves if we expect Him to give us health and prosperity as we wait for our call home at the end of our lives.

    Viva Christo Rey.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2022
  6. Ananchal

    Ananchal Vigilans

    I watched a Glen Beck youtube video where he showed Video/ Audio of the city and the screaming. I was horrified and can’t get it out of my mind. I prayed all weekend for those in Shanghai. What a true horror.
    :cry:
     
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  7. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

    https://www.breitbart.com/faith/2022/05/08/pope-francis-decries-pushback-to-his-ban-on-traditional-latin-mass/

    Pope Francis Decries Pushback to His Ban on Traditional Latin Mass
    Thomas D. Williams, Ph.D.8 May 2022
    [​IMG]
    AP Photo/Alessandra Tarantinonone
    7:00

    ROME — Pope Francis accused those resisting his sweeping restrictions on the Traditional Latin Mass as sowers of diabolical division in the Church.

    Liturgical life “must lead to greater ecclesial unity, not to division,” the pontiff told faculty and students of the Pontifical Liturgical Institute Saturday. “When liturgical life is something of a banner of division, there is the odor of the devil, the deceiver.”

    “It is not possible to worship God and at the same time make the liturgy a battlefield for issues that are not essential, indeed, for outdated issues and to take a stand, starting with the liturgy, with ideologies that divide the Church,” he insisted.

    Changes in the Church’s practice “scandalize closed minds,” Francis said.

    “Indeed, these closed mindsets use liturgical schemes to defend their point of view,” he said, and this is “the drama we are experiencing in ecclesial groups that move away from the Church, they question the Council and the authority of the bishops to preserve the tradition.”

    [​IMG]
    Monsignor Ignacio Barreiro Carambula celebrates the Latin Tridentine Mass in St. Giuseppe a Capo le Case Church in Rome, Italy, in July 2007. (ALBERTO PIZZOLI/AFP via Getty Images)

    In July 2021, Francis repealed inclusive measures by his predecessors, Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI, that allowed for greater flexibility and diversity in the Catholic liturgy.

    In his apostolic letter titled Traditionis Custodes (“Guardians of Tradition”), the pope banned the celebration of the Traditional Latin Mass — sometimes called the “Tridentine” Mass, in reference to the 16th-century Council of Trent — in Catholic parishes and lifted existing accommodations to priests who want to use the extraordinary form of the Catholic liturgy.

    The letter reversed measures to relax restrictions on the use of the traditional form by Pope Benedict XVI, who, in 2007, noted that many of the faithful have continued to be attached with “love and affection to the earlier liturgical forms which had deeply shaped their culture and spirit.”

    In recognition of this diversity, Pope John Paul II had sought greater inclusiveness by granting the faculty of using the older form and “exhorted bishops to make broad and generous use of this faculty on behalf of all the faithful who sought it,” Benedict wrote.

    Benedict established that the Roman Missal promulgated by Pope Paul VI “is the ordinary expression of the lex orandi (rule of prayer) of the Catholic Church of the Latin rite,” whereas the Roman Missal promulgated by Saint Pius V “is nonetheless to be considered an extraordinary expression of the same lex orandi of the Church and duly honored for its venerable and ancient usage.”

    “What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful,” Benedict explained. “It behooves all of us to preserve the riches which have developed in the Church’s faith and prayer, and to give them their proper place.”

    For his part, Francis declared that the 1970 Roman Missal is not the “ordinary expression” but rather “the unique expression of the lex orandi of the Roman Rite” (emphasis added). The new, exclusive ruling seems to eliminate the older form of the Mass as a legitimate expression of the lex orandi of the Church, despite its venerable tradition.

    Pope Benedict had granted broad faculties to Catholic priests who wished to say Masses in private using the Roman Missal published in 1962, declaring that to do so, “the priest needs no permission from the Apostolic See or from his own Ordinary.”

    [​IMG]
    Pope Benedict XVI, also known as Pope Emeritus, poses for a picture at the airport in Munich, Germany, in 2020. Benedict relaxed restrictions on the use of the Traditional Latin Mass in 2007. (SVEN HOPPE/POOL/AFP via Getty Images)

    According to Francis’ restrictions, priests who wish to celebrate using the Roman Missal of 1962 “should submit a formal request to the diocesan Bishop who shall consult the Apostolic See before granting this authorization.”

    The Vatican’s own website declaresthat “according to present norms, the Latin language still holds primacy of place as that language which, based on principle, the Church prefers, even though she recognizes that the vernacular can be useful for the faithful.”

    The Vatican goes on to note that “Latin should be safeguarded as a precious inheritance of the Western liturgical tradition.”

    The Code of Canon Law, which governs Church activity and liturgy, similarly stipulates: “The eucharistic celebration is to be carried out in the Latin language or in another language provided that the liturgical texts have been legitimately approved.”

    Saint John Paul II urged the continued use of Latin in the Church to maintain ties with its own history and traditions.

    “The Roman Church has special obligations towards Latin, the splendid language of ancient Rome,” he wrote, adding that “she must manifest them whenever the occasion presents itself.”

    Pope Francis justified the reversal of the more inclusive approach of his predecessors by insisting that their pastoral kindness “was exploited to widen the gaps, reinforce the divergences, and encourage disagreements that injure the Church, block her path, and expose her to the peril of division.”

    The pope’s suppression of the Traditional Latin Mass was hailed by progressives and vocally opposed by conservatives, including at least three prominent cardinals.

    Cardinal Gerhard Müller, for instance, the former chief of the Vatican’s doctrinal office (CDF), chided Pope Francis for his selective clampdown on the Traditional Latin Mass while allowing progressives to reject basic tenets of the faith with impunity.

    Pope Francis has “drastically restricted” the celebration of the Latin Mass with the clear intent to “condemn the Extraordinary Form to extinction in the long run,” Müller observed.

    By punishing the conservative peripheries, Francis “ignores the religious feelings of the (often young) participants in the Masses according to the Missal of John XXIII” without the “slightest empathy,” he wrote.

    “Instead of appreciating the smell of the sheep, the shepherd here hits them hard with his crook,” Müller declared, with an allusion to one of Francis’ favorite sayings.

    The formidable Cardinal Joseph Zen, the former bishop of Hong Kong, insisted that the measures were unreasonably harsh and hurt “the hearts of many good people.”

    The pope’s letter “considers the very existence of a parallel rite to be an evil,” Zen declared, and reflects wishes “for the death of the [traditional] groups.”

    [​IMG]
    A celebrating priest leads a Latin Mass at Rome’s ancient Pantheon Basilica in Rome, Italy, Friday, October 29, 2021. (AP Photo/Luca Bruno)

    Cardinal Raymond Burke, the former head of the Vatican’s highest court, also published an essay lamenting the pope’s attack on conservative Catholics.

    Those who are attached to the Traditional Latin Mass “are deeply disheartened by the severity of the discipline” imposed by Pope Francis in his letter and “offended by the language it employs to describe them, their attitudes and their conduct,” Burke wrote.

    “It is apparent from the severity of the document,” Burke said, that Pope Francis issued it “to address what he perceives to be a grave evil threatening the unity of the Church.”

    The pope’s message to the “devout faithful who have a deep appreciation and attachment” to the Traditional Latin Mass is that “they suffer from an aberration which can be tolerated for a time but must ultimately be eradicated,” Burke declared.



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  8. Ananchal

    Ananchal Vigilans

    I swear I am in great jeopardy of committing a mortal sin every time I hear something about Pope Francis :censored:
     
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  9. Joan J

    Joan J HolySpiritCome!

    Sounds like pleading to the Holy Spirit for peace at that moment.

    My favorite go-to is "be my words, thoughts, actions in everything!"
     
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  10. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-francis-says-traditionalism-is-infidelity-to-the-catholic-church-and-vatican-ii/

    Pope Francis says ‘traditionalism’ is ‘infidelity’ to the Catholic Church and Vatican II
    LifeSiteWed Oct 12, 2022 - 12:14 pm EDT
    [​IMG]
    VATICAN CITY (LifeSiteNews) – Marking the 60th anniversary of the start of the Second Vatican Council, Pope Francis attacked “traditionalism” as being “evidence … of infidelity” to the Catholic Church.

    The Argentinian Pontiff made his remarks in his homily during a Mass in St. Peter’s Basilica on October 10, marking the 60th anniversary of the opening of the ecumenical Second Vatican Council.

    Using a passage from St. John’s Gospel – “Do you love me? Feed my sheep” – Francis launched his attack on the traditionalist movement.

    Stating that “we are always tempted to start from ourselves rather than from God, to put our own agendas before the Gospel,” he decried those who wished to “retrace our steps.”

    “Yet let us be careful,” he said, “both the ‘progressivism’ that lines up behind the world and the ‘traditionalism’ – or ‘looking backwards’ – that longs for a bygone world are not evidence of love, but of infidelity.”

    Francis styled both “traditionalism” and “progressivism” as “forms of a Pelagian selfishness that puts our own tastes and plans above the love that pleases God, the simple, humble and faithful love that Jesus asked of Peter.”

    Praising the Council for its actions, Francis stated that it “rediscovered the living river of Tradition without remaining mired in traditions.”

    He told the assembled congregation not to be concerned with being “on the climb” towards heaven, or with attempts to “shepherd yourselves.” Rather, Francis urged a rejection of everything in the service of fraternity.

    How often, in the wake of the Council, did Christians prefer to choose sides in the Church, not realizing that they were breaking their Mother’s heart! How many times did they prefer to cheer on their own party rather than being servants of all? To be progressive or conservative rather than being brothers and sisters? To be on the “right” or “left,” rather than with Jesus?

    Francis opposes Latin Mass but warns of ‘polarization’
    In promoting Vatican II, Francis’ homily was flush with ironic phraseology. While his 2021 restrictions on the traditional Mass were entitled Traditionis custodes (guardians of Tradition), Francis yesterday attacked those who “present themselves as ‘guardians of the truth’ or ‘pioneers of innovation’ rather than seeing themselves as humble and grateful children of Holy Mother Church.”

    READ: Abp Viganò on the ‘roots of deviation’ of Vatican II and how Francis was chosen to revolutionize the Church

    His restrictions on the ancient liturgy, pronounced in the name of Vatican II, have since decimated parishes and communities, yet Francis said that the Church should “leave aside the ‘isms,’ for God’s people do not like polarization.”

    “How timely the Council remains,” he argued. “It helps us reject the temptation to enclose ourselves within the confines of our own comforts and convictions. The Council helps us imitate God’s approach, which the prophet Ezekiel has described to us today: ‘Seek the lost sheep and lead back to the fold the stray, bind up the injured and strengthen the weak’ (cf. Ezek 34:16).”

    The Pontiff closed by repeating his call to “let us overcome all polarization and preserve our communion.”

    However, some pointed to Francis’ own record on “polarization,” warning that his homily was a promotion of his assault on the Church’s Tradition. “This is Bergoglian speak for ending the Traditional Latin Mass,” wrote catechist Deacon Nick Donnelly.

    “Let us overcome all polarization and preserve our communion!” said – (pope) Bergoglio during his homily on the 60th anniversary of Vatican II

    This is Bergoglian speak for ending the Traditional Latin Mass

    He plans to enforce the Novus Ordo as the only expression of communion

    — Nick Donnelly (@ProtecttheFaith) October 11, 2022

    Donnelly added that Francis has “relentlessly attacked ‘the living river of Tradition’ since the beginning of his pontificate.”

    Vatican II underpinning current pontificate
    Francis and his close advisors have continually cited Vatican II in their recent moves against the Church’s Tradition, including in Traditionis custodes and the current Synod on Synodality. Indeed, the latter has been described as “an extension” of Vatican II since the process was announced last year.

    READ: ‘A different Church’: Pope calls for synod on synodality to usher in ‘change’

    Speaking to LifeSiteNews last year, Matt Gaspers – managing editor of Catholic Family News – said that the Synod: “calls to mind what Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò wrote in his first major intervention regarding the Council (June 9, 2020), namely, ‘that from Vatican II onwards a parallel church was built, superimposed over and diametrically opposed to the true Church of Christ. This parallel church progressively obscured the divine institution founded by Our Lord in order to replace it with a spurious entity, corresponding to the desired universal religion that was first theorized by Masonry’.”

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    Vatican II intended as ‘pastoral’ not ‘doctrinal’
    While the Second Vatican Council is regularly and overwhelmingly referenced in the modern day Vatican and current pontificate, both Popes of the Council — John XXIII and Paul VI — and Vatican II itself clearly stated that, unlike all previous Councils, it had neither the aim nor the intention to propose its own doctrine in a definitive and infallible way.

    RELATED: EWTN host blasts Pope Francis’ supporters who ‘blindly hate’ conservative Catholics

    In his address at the solemn opening of the Council, Pope John XXIII said: “The main purpose of this Council is not, therefore, the discussion of one or another theme of the fundamental doctrine of the Church.” He added that the character of the Council’s magisterium would be “predominantly pastoral” (October 11, 1962).

    Meanwhile Pope Paul VI said in his address at the last public session of the Council, that Vatican II “made its program” from “the pastoral character” (7 December 1965). Furthermore, as Bishop Athanasius Schneider has recalled, a November 16, 1964, note by the Council’s Secretary-General reads: “Taking conciliar custom into consideration and also the pastoral purpose of the present Council, the sacred Council defines as binding on the Church only those things in matters of faith and morals which it shall openly declare to be binding.”

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    Sent from my iPhone
     
  11. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Like a bad referee at a football match who continuously makes poor decisions we would chant "he hasn't got a clue". Out of his depth.

    The whole homily is full of self contradictions.

    I continue to pray for him that one day he will be granted the grace to see the mess he has created.
     
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  12. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Reeking of desperation I would think. He accuses those who wish to engage with the Latin Mass, in the spirit of Pope Benedict and the popes of many centuries, of sowing seeds of diabolical division, although it was he who took positive action against them, while continuing to remain silent over those who promote blessing sodomy and advocating the abandonment of most church doctrine.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2022
    Ang likes this.
  13. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Strikes me that the demographics are going to finally beat the progressives. We know there's a crisis of vocations. Maybe that's Divinely intended. There're mostly believing Catholics joining the priesthood. The perverts are finding new modes of self-expression, other than aiming for altar boys, who have anyway also reached a 'vocations crisis'. There are few 'boy wonders' on the progressivist side-even this James Martin is nearly 62. The cabal in power is a geriatric one. Pope Francis has appointed many progressivist cardinals, but how many are really young? It would be interesting to see an age profile. One consolation is that the longer this pope lives, the nearer his appointees become to retirement age.

    It's one thing to gain power. What's even harder is to maintain it. Stalinism, Maoism, Hitlerism...all in the dustbin of history. Only God's Power can remain permanent.
     
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  14. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    It is encouraging that he seems intent on enforcing the Novus Ordo. It would be more worrying if he was hinting at a newer Mass. Precious as the Vetus Ordo is, and it will return, we mustn't make an idol of it and cause schism over this issue-PF has done far worse with Amoris laetitia, Pachamama and the death penalty. However, a reverend NO (let's not forget that the Eucharistic miracles continue with the NO), with the Roman canon, ad orientem (he's done it himself-we could call it Mass a la Francis), a prayer of St Michael and no gimmicks would sicken the progressives, I suspect.
     
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  15. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Anger isn't always and necessarily sinful.
     
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  16. Wild Wyoming

    Wild Wyoming Wyoming Wanderer

    Call me kwazy, but somehow I feel that this pope will recognize the errors of his ways before he shuffles off this mortal existence.....
     
  17. SteveD

    SteveD Powers

    I'm not sure that the title accurately reflects the current situation but it does seem that things are moving towards possible canonisation of non-Catholics and even such extreme anti-Catholics as Luther himself. We already have a Vatican stamp in his memory and a statue to him in the Vatican which appears to be an implied declaration of the Pope's belief that he is some sort of Christian hero. Luther, let me remind you, told his followers that sin did not impede salvation so long as one had faith and, indeed that one should 'be a sinner and sin strongly..' He also had some appalling things to say about Jews which were used by the NAZI's to support the Holocaust.

    Francis Is Going To "Canonize" Non-Catholic "Saints" - YouTube
     
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  18. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Luther was such a scoundrel that there are no redeeming features.
     
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  19. AED

    AED Powers

    I pray for his salvation with every Rosary.
     
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  20. Wild Wyoming

    Wild Wyoming Wyoming Wanderer

    Me too!
     
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