Garabandal Objections

[quote ="Woman Clothed With The Sun, post: 35424, member: 749"]Steve,

We have yet only a limited perspective of the first 50 years after VCII. Our Blessed Mother has the full perspective of the impact of VCII as seen from eternity. You are trying to match both and that's not only extremely arrogant but simply impossible.

The VCII will be studied and treasured 1000 years from now. It opened the windows and the doors of the Church, which was necessary for growth. When this happened, the devil was already working in destroying the Church -as has always been. Many fell for his traps. Well yes. But many didn't. And the Church is still trying to find it's way and to understand the gift of Grace that VCII is, and to incarnate it in real life.

The fact that there have been many abuses after the Council doesn't invalidate it at all. We have to be aware of the power that the Council still holds hidden: Abuses were made in the name of the Council. But not only abuses: Pope Benedict has strongly re-steered the wheel of the Church in the name of the Council. Pope Francis is going to astonish us with his own doings, also in the name of the Council -and of the Gospel, of course.

You are dealing with a very complex issue and want to solve it in a simplistic way: "good guys versus bad guys". God doesn't deal with us in this way. God sees us individually. You, and me. You and I will have to give count to God as to the ultimate motivation for your/our actions and thoughts, including our embrace or rejection of apparitions that we've come to know. God looks at our motivations. This is what makes the Warning so necessary that God will intervene so powerfully in human history, so that we will stop judging life, people, history, everything through our limited and selfish human perspectives, and start seeing things as God sees them.

I know that this is not going to convince you of anything but it really saddens me that you fall for the trap of this pseudo objection, which to me is sheer satanic deception. Going against the Council is going against the Church -just listen to every Pope since it took place. And yet here you pretend to have an evidence greater than the Magisterium of all the last Popes in the fact that the messages of Garabandal hold a very severe warning about individuals in the hierarchy of the Church.

I would ask you a question, Steve, does discernment involve for you specific prayer to God for guidance and enlightenment? Or is it simply a mater of intellectual gymnastics? We find many more confirmations praying on our knees than searching only with our intellect objections to phenomena so complex that the Church itself does not feel ready to make a final decision yet.[/quote]


WCWTS, such a helpful post. Thank you.

 

You are very welcome, Jerry. Thanks for letting me know

 

Glenn, this is new and important information to me. I have not come across it in the literature I have. Is there a primary source for this quote that we can access, or is this somehow personal information that only a select few know and if so how?

Thanks, God Bless Glenn,

Mike

 

Is this true? I've read and watched what I can of Conchita speaking but where is this specific interview?

Thanks, Jose
God Bless,

 

Pope Francis and Vatican II

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/new...francis-is-launching-new-phase-of-vatican-ii/

 

Around minute 7

 

Here is the source:
http://www.ourlady.ca/info/another%20Prophecy%20Fulfilled.htm

 

Mike ,here is the whole story. Conchita reversed her statement in a subsequent interview. First, she was talking about when she had period of denial ,when she was 18 years old.
(which by the way, the Blessed Mother predicted she would doubt, but later recant that testimony )
Go watch her updated 1980 BBC interview. She does NOT say that. IN FACT,she says at the 21:00 min. mark she is asked if she believes NOW,and she responds "I BELIEVE VERY STRONGLY ! "

 

"I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key.

Winston Churchill



I have found that what Sir Winston said of Russia is just so very true of Garabandal. Why so?

Well for me all authentic Marian apparitions have been subject to attacks from the devil. This is prefigured of course in the Book of Revelation:

A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. (Revelation 12:1-6 NIV)


This is the great riddle, the enigma of Garabandal. But what is the key?

I think the key lies in the messages themselves, that in time to come a great Miracle and Sign will be given there and the devil pursues the Woman into the Wilderness to destroy her.

I myself have had to chance to be in direct contact with false visionaries and in response have simply rebuked them and moved onwards. I do not linger. Why not? Well having quickly and directly said that which needs to be said I move on from the false to the positive ; to that which is clearly true. For it seems tome that that which is false will destroy itself in the end and that which is false will implode, destroy itself and disintegrate.

The very,very last thing I would want to do is conduct to what amounts to a campaign against the false visionary/apparition site.

I think this is shown of the very wise words of Rabbi Gameliel in scripture lately:

Acts 5

[34] But one in the council rising up, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, respected by all the people, commanded the men to be put forth a little while. [35] And he said to them: Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what you intend to do, as touching these men.
[36] For before these days rose up Theodas, affirming himself to be somebody, to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all that believed him were scattered, and brought to nothing. [37] After this man, rose up Judas of Galilee, in the days of the enrolling, and drew away the people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as consented to him, were dispersed. [38] And now, therefore, I say to you, refrain from these men, and let them alone; for if this council or this work be of men, it will come to nought; [39] But if it be of God, you cannot overthrow it, lest perhaps you be found even to fight against God. And they consented to him. [40] And calling in the apostles, after they had scourged them, they charged them that they should not speak at all in the name of Jesus; and they dismissed them.

...and so I would invite people to reflect on these words....

for if this council or this work be of men, it will come to nought; [39] But if it be of God, you cannot overthrow it, lest perhaps you be found even to fight against God.'

Be careful.Reflect less you are in this matter fighting against God.

 

I have a young pup who when he fights has the extraordinary habit of grasping the other dog in his mouth squeezing down and just not letting go. This is not good.

I think the same thing with some of these objectors, they are biting in squeezing and holding on to these things a little to hard and too long and it makes me wonder....and causes concern as to why?....

 

Padraig, your reference for if this council or this work be of men, it will come to nought; [39] But if it be of God, you cannot overthrow it,lest perhaps you be found even to fight against God.' makes me think of how will they respond during the Warning to God ? Will they actually try to "intellectualize " and argue their opposition to God himself ? Its one thing not to believe, but its quite another thing to constantly attack it ,or try to discredit it, and to what end ? I wouldn't want to face that judgment and atonement if purposely trying to sway people from Mary's message of repentance.

 

This has got totally partisan and is doing no good. I suspected that this was going to get 'hot' and have attempted to do things in a consistent and disciplined way but it has not been possible to do so.
I have personally come off the fence now partly because of what I have read here but mainly because of Conchita's reported comments about the apparition's attitude to the Council - which to my mind (and many, many others) has been disastrous, no matter what people might be saying in a thousand years!! I won't be commenting on this thread again but may do so on others if I read what I consider to be questionable material (and I expect a fair amount of that if history is any lesson).

 

That is a very unfair statement Glen. People are here because they love God and have devotion to Our Blessed Mother. Those who don't need prophecies to help them in their faith are truly blessed.

We must be careful not to judge. God knows the heart of each person here.

 

No I don't think Elizabeth, Glenn aimed his post specifically at Steve, it appears to be given in suitable general well mannered context as I hope mine was.

People can as it were draw water from the well or not just as they please...as the old saying goes, 'If the cap fits....'

 

well then may I say this. Some are not good ambassadors for Mother Mary or Garabandal.. and whoever the cap fits can wear it if they like.

 

Mary how can you honestly say people are here because they love the Blessed Mother, yet a few are trying their hardest to discredit her messages? That doesn't make sense. I would rather error on the side of believing in her messages, than attacking it, I don't want that on my soul. My defense to God is easy, I defended our Blessed Mother ! What will her opponents say in their defense ? And you are right , GOD WILL JUDGE , lets hope he will have mercy on those who error because of intellectual pride.

 

They are not trying to discredit her messages, they are trying to discern. Mother Mary says don't worry if you don't believe them, just live them, I believe that Steve is living her messages.

I think Mother Mary would be far more patient and understanding than we are and she would look on him with a loving gaze. Very few are showing that loving gaze at the moment.

We would all do good to read 1:Corinthians 13 and live that message.

 

I suspect, often, it is rather more, often, than simple detached discernment, Elizabeth.

But let us agree to disagree.

 

I am doing my best to live as she would want me to.