Vatican hosting Fauci, Chelsea Clinton, Pfizer CEO, Big Tech oligarchs at ‘health’ conference

Yep, I don't like him either...but I Love him and most importantly I Love our Church.

God is allowing this, why? I have my suspicions that it's because He's allowing us to reap what we've sown because as any good father knows, He understands that allowing His children to experience the pain of their poor choices leads to correcting the poor behavior in the long run and this is part of the process of the Triumph. I certainly don't buy into the Bishop Barron/church of nice baloney that all is fine and well and we just need to be nicer to one another, and nicer to mother earth, and accept alternative lifestyles that God didn't design, etc.

 

I'm not sure that an Italian referring to the Pope by his surname is always seen as disrespectful. The practice seems to be fairly common in Italy and maybe some other European countries. Nevertheless, Archbishop Vigano would know from his spell as Nuncio to the US that it is seen as disrespectful in the US and other countries.

Perhaps it's my overactive imagination, but I get the sense that Archbishop Vigano is leaning towards what some people call Benevacantism - that Benedict is still the legitimate Pope because his resignation was coerced. That's the only reason I can think of for such a traditionalist Bishop to be so openly hostile to a reigning Pope. The only way he could justify such a position would be if he believed that the coercion continues, thereby belying Benedict's assurances that his resignation was his own decision arrived at freely after much prayer and absent any pressure from opponents. If that's what Archbishop Vigano believes, he left it rather late to voice any concerns he may have.

Anyway, it is way above our station to question the validity of the reigning Pontiff. Love him or loathe him, Francis is our Pope because the Bishops tell us he is, therefore, we owe him loyalty and obedience. I don't believe that means we must pretend that he isn't the worst Pope in the history of the Church. It goes without saying that we must pray for him because that's our only recourse to have some good come from this fiasco.

I have great sympathy for Archbishop Vigano and am grateful for the lifetime's loyal service he has given to the Church.

 

No we don't. I'm not a priest and have not taken any vows of loyalty and obedience to my bishop or the Pope. He can tell me to do all kinds of things, wash his car, take the jab, use less carbon and I owe him nothing but my prayers for him to get out from under whatever diabolical attack is making him think like that.

I owe God my loyalty and obedience, but not the Pope or any bishop.

 

That is the creed of a Protestant, not a Catholic. Are you sure you want to declare this publicly?

Please reconsider.

Remember the promise Jesus made to Peter, his "rock."

Remember the Blessed Mother told St. Juan Diego to present himself to the bishop. She acknowledged the bishop's authority.

Remember the martyrs, faithful unto death.

 

Exactly.

 

I agree 100%. Christy, by your definition PF is not catholic or most Jesuits. His liberation theology philosophy has been condemned by St JP2.

 

Christy, in order to avoid the near occasion of sin this will be the only reply I'll give to you on this as I've watched you badger over and over various posters on this forum about their opinions, and I'd prefer not to be drawn into that by you in this instance...but you're quite mistaken. I, as a faithful Catholic, owe my obedience to the Magisterium, not the Pope. That is a distinct difference. The Pope, especially Pope Francis, gives lots of opinions that are his and which are not part of the Magisterium (and many of his opinions on various issues are quite misguided, especially the ones he gives on the plane back from various trips). Those opinions of Pope Francis that are not part of the Magisterium and which are way out there I regularly disregard and pray for his conversion on those issues where he's misguided. God bless, Christy.

 

I do not see how you can say "by your definition." I owe obedience to the Pope as he exercises his authority as the successor of Peter. I owe obedience to my bishop and to all bishops in unity with the Pope. I may disagree with many things, but I am not "more Catholic than the Pope." Nor do I hold with the "every man his own pope" beliefs of Protestants.

I am withdrawing from this thread now.

 

Christy is correct. I know how difficult it is to accept Pope Francis’ authority, but if we want to hold on to our faith we must.

 

I believe Archbishop Vigano is unveiling the truth about the Great Reset. His hostility is not personal against Pope Francis, he’s horrified at the Pope’s lack of interest in educating the flock against it. And we all should be horrified as well.

 

Sorry Christy but that is exactly what you are doing. Under PJP2 you believed it was ok to condemn libetation theology. But now, under PF you embrace it. Which one is it Christy and Byron?

Whatever happened to "glory be to father, son, and holy spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be. Obviously you two don't believe it.

 

I believe someone may have posted this before, but I came across this Podcast from Dr Taylor Marshall on Padre Pio's take on what was and is happening in the Church from as far back as 1960. This take comes from the Former (now deceased ) Vatican Chief Exorcist Fr Amaroth. I have the very highest respect for Fr Amaroth, there are moves to have him declared a saint. A wonderfully Faithful and Loyal Catholic. I am taking it Dr Marshall did research on this and Chief Exorcist actually related these things.

If true we are all in huge, huge trouble. One funny thing; apparently St Padre Pio call money , 'The Devil's excrement'.

 

No point in making this statement unless you define authority. Where does it begin and where does it end?

Pope Francis says Catholics have a moral obligation to get the vaccine against covid.

Does that mean that those who haven't taken it reject his authority?

I accept Pope Francis as Pope but I don't accept his views on the vaccine, global warming, and economics - areas where he has little expertise but strong opinions.

 

I have been doing my best this long while now not thinking about the Holy Father and the Vatican for a long while now and have been loads more peaceful and happy as a result.

Fr Ripperger in a recent conference said, I believe that ignoring a Pope was wrong. Well I have found paying the least attention as possible very good for my sanity.

That idea of a Year of St Joseph was a wonderful one, though I see it originated with Fr Calloway. Nevertheless it was great that the Holy Father put it in play.

The present Pope reminds me of when I was child and was afraid that there was a bogeyman under my bed. I found the less I thought of that bogeyman the happier I was.

What a sad, sad thing to write as a Catholic but Francis is my bogeyman.

 

“All Catholics, the church teaches, must practice obedience of faith: assent of faith to the magisterium and divine revelation (word of God), and religious submission to the Pope and other bishops. This includes obedience to one's conscience and obedience to good law.“
I don’t agree with much of what Pope Francis says too. Let us remember Peter was also weak. We need to obey the teachings, pray and trust in God.

 

Two good antidotes I have found recently. One is I am listening to a long 10 hour twenty minute podcast of the Catechism of the Council of Trent.

Modernist Heresy is so rife now that if we don't relearn the Truth of the Faith we are pretty well sunk. The Catechism of the Council of Trent is a great place to start.

I thought it would bore me to tears. But, no , not at all. I am also listening to former Papal Documents of the Glory days before the rot set in.

Also there is the Old Baltimore Catechism also available as a podcast.

 

We are bound to give “religious submission of mind and will“ to the Pope on specific matters of faith and morals. It does not mean we have to accept his view on vaccines. So, yes I agree with you.

 

By virtue of your baptism, you are subject to the authority of the Pope and Bishops who are in union with him. You might find this helpful: https://stpaulcenter.com/when-do-we-have-to-obey-the-pope/

 

I don't think that Pope Francis has bound us under pain of sin to embrace liberation theology. I'm not sure, but I think that he has said something to suggest that he doesn't believe in liberation theology. I can't recall where I read that but it was probably something he said which could be interpreted to have a dozen different meanings.

 

I hope you are right. I'm a bit worried for Archbishop Vigano. Sometimes I get the feeling that in his distress over what's going on in the Church, he is letting his buttons be pushed by people who may not have his and the Church's best interests at heart. I'm thinking of what he said about Vatican 11 as well as referring to the unapproved message from Melanie of LaSalette. He's probably too honest to have found a more circumspect way of getting his message across but he needs to tone it down a notch lest he give his enemies reason to deride him as an unhinged crank. Fence sitters don't like angsty speech.