Timelines are elusive. I've tried and tried to come up with a sequence of events that makes sense without trying to nail times down. Mari Loli said that the Warning would come 'when things are at their worst'. So, it comes when we are already in big trouble. My sequence will be hotly disputed and is (of course) a guess, as it has to be, but here goes: Start of Chastisement (civil wars, wars, natural disasters) - While these continue and when at their worst - Warning - Change of situation involving conversions, change of alliances and allegiances, personal and national - Miracle - Victory of the 'good' in the wars and civil wars - acceptance of Catholicism by a great majority of mankind and general repentance - end of Chastisement - triumph of Immaculate Heart - Period of Peace. I know that this will apparently contradict some 'knowns', and probably several, but every timeline/sequence that I have seen/or produced always does and presumably because we have not fully understood something, somewhere, in the picture. As to dates, I believe that things must commence in earnest next year (following a slow build up of current financial troubles and consequent national squabbles, and alliances cementing between Islamic nations against Israel) and will end in 2017 (October being the centenary of the first and the final apparitions) and it being 100 years since the success of the Russian Revolution (Satan's 100 years given according to Pope Leo XIII elapses)
That's not a bad sequence. I kind of interchanged the word Tribulation, where you used Chastisement in terms of a lengthy period of it. Otherwise it seems almost the same. The only thing that you don't really have (and maybe this is intentional) is a specific moment of a climaxing Chastisement (which according to the Garabandal visionaries occurs as a 3rd event in sequence, can be mitigated, but not avoided). So I guess I dfferentiated those ideas by using the term "tribulation" for describing the general conditions that worsen to the point of the Warning, and ther term "Chastisement" for describing the definitive end of tribulation (i.e. End of Mercy, and maybe is described as "3 days of darkness" by some saints). When it starts in earnest, I am probably close to your thoughts. Maybe late 2013 for tribulation starting, and therefore Warning either late 2013 or early 2014. Miracle maybe 2014 or 2015 (spring of 2016 at latest). ...With the very outside chance that things take a global nosedive next week, and this all starts this spring...
The more you read the more you realize we will know when the warning is about to happen without any announcement. Obviously the majority can still practice their faith openly and communism has not infiltrated every country fully. Yet. So I have a feeling we will all be posting at the same time and will know together it's about to happen if we are able to still post on the internet at that time. God Bless!
If anyone believes the prophecy of Garabandal. The "warning' can't happen yet. As the world isn't at it's worse. If anyone prefers to believe St Fasutina, Jesus will come, His Final Coming in mercy, but first we will see our sins, but only because God the Father had already once decided on this, and He never changes His mind. So in both cases, the world will be at it's worse. Satan knows this too. When will it be? "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, no the Son, but the Father only." And this is why Satan is getting so many prophecies wrong. Becasue he doesn't know the hour, only God the Father. Isn't this a good idea? Otherwise Satan can decieve so many more souls.
Hi Jane, We don't need to rely on any unapproved apparition(s) to reach these conclusions and there are many more approved apparitions and prophecies than Saint Faustina. I have said it before several times and will repeat that if anyone is interested in conclusions that rely only on approved sources, they should read 'Trial, Tribulation and Triumph' which takes St. Faustina's prophecies into account along with scores of others and reaches highly credible conclusions and a credible sequence of events.
Steve, I know there are many more approved apparitions and prophecies than St Faustina. I just haven't read many books on the saints. St Faustina is fresh in my mind that is why I can quote her easier. I think through what Jesus said, we can guess around about the time it will all start. Satan can to. He knows his time is coming to an end soon. But I wouldn't think he knows the exact year.
I may be wrong but I get the impression that your position is that either St. Faustina is correct (that we live in a special time of God's mercy) OR the prophecies about a warning, miracle and chastisement are correct and that they are mutually exclusive and contradict each other. I don't believe this to be the case at all. Saint Cyprian referred to the persecution under the Emperor Trajan in 250 as a manifestation of Divine Mercy because, although many lapsed under threat of death, many others became fervent who had been lukewarm and the Church again began to be as fervent it had been in Apostolic times. The Church was re-invigorated and the persecution was the cause of it. And so it will be in our times, and we know this because the prophecies specify great troubles and divine intervention precisely in our times. Presumably God wanted us to know that we are in the times of tribulation or he wouldn't have told so many of his saints over so many centuries. We are not speculating about the date of 'the end' but of the troubles coming well before it.
First of all, I am now realising that I read something different in what Jesus said to St Faustina compared to what other people can see. At first I thought I must be going crazy, because to me, it is very obvious and clear. But this morning someone emailed me who is wanting to see what I see, but he can't. But he said he doesn't believe I am wrong either. I know this sounds more crazy than anything I have said. But I am speaking honestly. What I read is when Jesus comes at the time of illumination of conscience, we can enter the new life. But this will be for those who recognise His coming. This is part of #378 in her diary. I have posted it on that thread. Jesus has said through St Faustina He is preparing the world for HIs Final Coming. I do NOT see any warning. It is going to be mercy, unfathamable Divine Mercy. Jesus says "Woe to those who do not recognise His visitation." It is our last salvation without having to go through the door of justice. It is Satan's chance to divert your way of thought. If you think of it a warning, you won't recognise HIs coming, so you won't be able to enter that new life. Satan also says some might die of fright through the warning. No, if anyone leaves the earth at that time, they have gone throught the door of mercy. Now, I can almost accept, for some reason people can't see this. But I can't understand for the life of me how people can think The Mother of God gets prophecy WRONG. Because if anyone believes Garabandal, they also say She can get it wrong. There have been too many predictions that did NOT happen that should have happened in Garabandal. So does Mary get it wrong? Or does She lie? What one is it? I like to stick with what the church says. So... Is it propheciesed anywhere there will be a miracle after a warning and before the chastisement? By the way. Yes, we are living in the time of mercy, but that door will be closed and then the door of justice will open straight after we see our conscience of sin. I hope that helps. Remember. What I am saying is because I am sincerely concerned for souls. Steve, I hope this helps. I am getting tired. Mary's Child and Jayne are putting bets up that I will leave this forum too. But I want to help spread the words of Jesus. Because it is through His words we learn the truth.
Can you list them? I do not exactly remember all of them and I have read you referring to some of being unfullfilled but you have not ( or I missed, sorry) named which ones. Thanks in advance. P.S. I am somewhat confused on the talk about "special coming by Our Lord Jesus Christ as Divine Mercy". He has already come - 2000 years ago !!!! And His Divine Mercy stayed with us ever since!!!! His Second Coming is going to be a Judgement, as He has said Himself, so who and when has prophesied Second Coming of Mercy?
I have read all one can possibly read on the prophecies of Garabandal. I bought the DVD and the book from the official promoters of Garabandal. So when this book was publicised they were in a greement to what was printed in it. Today, they have twisted some of the prophecies to suit, but there are some they just can't do. I have even heard they deny some prophecies now. First you need to read the difference of how Garabandal discribes the illumination of conscience compared to St Faustina. Quotes from St Faustina's diary. Divine Mercy in my soul. And Garabandal book writen by Jacques Serre - Beatrice Caux which I recieved from the "official' Garabandal promoters. Garabandal prophecies say… A world wide warning that will happen in the sky…like a collision of two stars that do not fall down…It will frighten all humanity regardless where one happens to be at the time….it will be a thousand times worse than earthquakes….like a fire that will not burn your flesh….it will last a very short time, although to us it will seem like a very long time…no one can prevent it from happening…It will be recognised as coming from God…it will resemble a punishment…it is meant to be a purification…like the relevation of our sins and what we will feel in our hearts will be worse than sorrow. It will not kill us, if we die it will be caused by the emotion within us. Jesus said to St Faustina…. “Write this: Before I come as a just Judge, I am coming first as a King of Mercy. Before the day of justice arrives, there will be given to people a sign in the heavens of this sort: All the light in the heavens will be extinguished, and there will be great darkness over the whole earth. Then the sign of the cross will be seen in the sky, and from the openings where the hands and the feet of the saviour were nailed will come forth great lights which will light up the earth for a period of time. This will take place shortly before the last day.” These are some prophecies of Garabandal. “Padre Pio will see the miracle.”........ He died! It is only heresay that he saw it before he died. Pg 160 After Pope John XX11, there will be only 3, no 4 more popes, then NO MORE. We now have Pope Francis. Pg 182 "Father Luis body to be found incorrupt after the miracle.”.......... His body has been dug up, and it is not incorrupt. Pg 160 "Paloma Pacheco Larrauri born in1931, a barren woman told, “you will have a son the day of the miracle.” ...... I think she has died without a son, as no one will help me here. Pg 147 "Conchita told in ecstacy, 3 month old Pepi Luis will become a priest.”........ He entered seminary but did not continue. This prophecy must have messed with his life.
Jane - I can feel your concern and I, for one, do appreciate it. Your heart is in the right place. What I tried to convey with written words previously, which don't always come across as well as if we could talk in person, is that I don't really think you need to be concerned. People on this forum, whether they believe the prophesies of Garabandal or not, know they need to convert. I don't believe that any of us are waiting for the Warning to convert. What is truly important, whether we believe in the prophesies or not, is conversion - our hearts need to convert to be like Jesus - a fine role model, I might add, is our wonderful new pope. Some wonderful Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Jew, etc. may have never heard of this prophesy (which we can be assured that we are a fraction of a percent that are even aware of the events of Garabandal) are still living their lives in a way that is pleasing to God - they are converting - their soul is not in danger because Jesus died for every human since the beginning of time. It is really those that don't know God, aren't following God's laws to the best of their knowledge and understanding that are in danger. Many people have converted as a result of Medjugorje and Garabandal and these conversions are part of what the Church uses to judge the authenticity of the apparitions too just like those of the approved apparitions. Anyhow, while I do believe the apparitions are true, it would be foolish for me to live a life against the teachings of the Catholic Church in anticipation for a Warning since it is possible it will never happen and I also don't know the day or hour of my own death which is what we all really need to be prepared for. I don't believe others are waiting either. Also, if the Warning doesn't occur, my faith isn't so fragile that I would lose faith in the Catholic Church or Jesus. That said, I do believe we all need to pray for continued faith because the events of the future will test our faith. One book I think you may want to read, if you havent already, is "The Secrets, Chastisement and Triumph of the Two Hearts" by Kelly Bowring. He has incredible theological knowledge, is obviously a devout Catholic and believes prophesies, both approved and unapproved. He does a fabulous job of tying it all together. Of course, nobody knows for sure but he has done his homework. If nothing else, it may help to alleviate concerns you have about all of your Garabandal and Medjugorje believing friends here on this forum . Again, I know your heart is in the right place but I do believe that one day we will all meet in Heaven, have a good laugh about how he/she had this, that or the other thing wrong because we just aren't God and don't think like Him. I believe this because we are all trying to live a life that is pleasing to God, we are seeking Him and are asking for His grace to convert before it is too late. God Bless you, Jane! Sorry for the acronyms in my previous post. Believe it or not, I too am not a fan of them since I don't always know what they stand for but I had seen this one used many times before so I thought it was well known by the group. I'll avoid them in the future.
Jane, Glenn has promised to clarify any misgivings about Garabandal,..have you considered putting these questions to Glenn?
Thankyou for understanding that my intentions are sincere. It would be easier to walk away if I wasn't concerned for souls. I really do hope for those who don't recognise Jesus Coming will be alright and we meet in Heaven. I am starting to think there may be more protestants than we think that will enter Heaven before catholics. Satan is attacking us, the true faith. He hates us and knows we listen and follow Mary. So he decieves 'us' as Mary. Thankyou for recomending this book. But to tell you the truth, I just don't have time to read any more books. i have told Stephen I will read his book. But in all honesty, I believe all we need is the words of Jesus in the Gospel and through the saints. Jesus even goes as far as warning us in last weeks Gospel. He warns us about filling our heads with prophecies. He tells us if we do that, we have no room for His words. I think it is fair to say, many of us fill our heads with such unimportant maters. Yet what is 'most' important? Isn't it the Gospel? God Bless you Tina. Thankyou for your kindness.
The way I read it. Mind you, I seem to be the only one here that reads it this way. So you can take it as I am just going crazy, or because I have opened my mind to Jesus. I have been offering up my mind at the sacrifice of the mass every day for a year now. Since me doing this, I can not believe how diferent I am seeing things. I use to believe every prophecy out there only one year ago. I never expected me to see Garabandal any different. Because it was through that DVD that made me change my life. But I am not close minded enough to think that is enough to warrant its autheticity. It was a shock to me to see differently, but a pleasing change. I now search Jesus. He is the truth. He is the light. He is our God. So to answer your question... Yes. Jesus did come more than 2000 years ago. He came with all the warnings and laws. It is up to us to live by it and listen to His words. So the next coming is HIs Final Coming. Yes He is coming in judgement. But He tells us through St Faustina he will come in Mercy, His unfathamable Divine mercy and if we do not recognise His mercy (He says "Woe to them that don't recognise My visitation) the door of mercy will then close then the door of justice will open. And yes we are in HIs mercy now. It is in His coming that the door of mercy will close. But we can enter the new life before he opens the door of justice. He says this. Not me. I so hope that makes sense otherwise you are all going to put a straight jacket on me.
Steve, I am in solidarity with Jane on some things. One of them being, I don't think I want to read any more books right now (having consumed so much over the past 10-20 years of seeking). I feel like taking action in my own conversion is the response I need to have for now (I need to concentrate on growing in holiness through prayer, penance, the sacraments, and trying to allow the Holy Spirit to perfect my love for others). Another being devotion to Divine Mercy. I am so thankful for His revelation to Saint Faustina, and His words in her diary brought me out of despair directly to confession and daily mass. But I am not ready to throw out most Marian apparitions and call them "Satan". I think Mary has a HUGE role to play in bringing forth the Redeemer again, by His choice, so it would be wrong to be fearful, and say Mary isn't genuinely assisting us, the last generation through apparitions. I believe in Fatima and I think Garabandal is probably directly linked so I want it to be genuine (and St Pio and Mother Theresa are some strong advocates....). Maybe you could summarize the conlcusions from "Trial, Tribulation and Triumph" and maybe Tina S can summarize the Kelly Bowring conclusions from "The Secrets, Chastisement and Triumph of the Two Hearts". It would be interesting to see where the respective authors' collective research led them. P.S. I agree with you on "Salvation Is From The Jews" by Schoeman. It was such a great insight that it affected my entire world view. I love when actual history is presented at the depth he presented it, and especially when it is rooted in the understanding of our faith. There was never any hope of that level of truth coming through typical secular history books.
Hi Jane, St. Faustina's diary entry 83 sounds like the Warning to me. To rely only on Scripture and Saint Faustina's prophecies is an option that you have taken and I respect that but there are other options that are just as reasonable where they do not presume the decisions of the Church and I have chosen one of those. I do not comment on those threads that you initiate and set out your case and maybe you should consider not commenting on threads initiated by people who clearly do not agree with your own 'line' in the matter of eschatology.
On many levels, I think we all agree. It comes to the details where we aren't in agreement. God likely has a reason for that. One reason may be because we are all members of the Body of Christ so what appeals to one part of the Body, doesn't necessarily appeal to another part of the Body. The goal, whatever the gifts are given and used, is to becomes like Christ said, like a child when it comes to our faith. So, is my faith becoming more like that of a child, just blind, no-strings-attached faith? I do believe I'm getting there only by the grace of God and my persistent prayer requests. What helps me though is a reminder by reading the Medjugorje messages. I agree that following every prophesy out there isn't wise because it can be confusing and we may end up missing the point. God wants us to trust Him, love Him, feel His mercy, seek a relationship with Him, etc.. So, the beauty of our faith is that we have many gifts. What speaks to one persons heart may not speak to another persons heart but the end result is the same. Faith like that of a child or, at least, that is the goal. For me personally, I would not be where I'm at now without Medjugorje. When I was in cathechism classes in junior high school, a leader could lecture all day and it didn't speak to my heart. Opening a Bible, again, wasn't going to do it at that time. As soon as the instructor put a VHS in of the children at Medjugorje, I knew in my heart that it was true. I have never had a doubt. I changed how I treated my mom, I started fasting and praying more fervently, avoided sin, I started seeking, etc.. Again, after the terrorist attacks in NY on the World Trade Center, I realized I needed to focus more on being ready for my own judgement. I learned of Garabandal. To me, both Garabandal and Medjugorje are a continuation of Fatima, Lourdes, Akita, Guadalupe, etc.. We will understand how it all works together to create a beautiful picture of God's love for us one day. In the meantime, the angels and saints with Mary as the Queen are in a spriritual battle for all of us children. As part of that battle, I believe she has devouted herself, through visions, locutions, etc., to bring all of her children back to Jesus especially during this 100 years of Satan, for lack of a better term. As part of that, she has wasted no time in coming to her children as she is allowed by God. I don't believe it ended with Fatima because of her love for her children and same can be said why it is allowed. God loves us and wants nothing more than our conversion and will allow these messages and gifts for the purpose of conversion. Again, nobody needs to agree with me but this is what is in my heart. So, you definitely have a fire in your heart for Jesus, Jane, I can feel that. Others here do as well. I feel that when Jesus mentioned not filling our heads with lots of prophesy, it wasn't that we should avoid prophesy all together, even unapproved prophesy. If our minds get in the way of our spritual growth, that is a problem. Same could be said for someone that spends hours a day reading the Bible. We can see examples of this in Protestant faiths that focus solely on the Bible. While they read the Bible and believe as a result that one just needs to accept the Lord as their personal Lord and Savior to get to Heaven, the issue with that is that it is a free pass to Heaven, nothing needs to be done on our part. Just acceptance; no conversion of heart. That is a dangerouse way to live; we do need to convert to have faith more like children and not live a sinful, unrepentent life. We are so blessed to have all of the gifts we have in the Catholic Church for conversion of heart. The sacraments, the complete Bible, the writings of the Church Fathers, Mary, the saints, adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, prophesy, etc.. If only a fraction of these gifts speak to our hearts and light a fire, I believe we are on the narrow road to Heaven. All is good, no worries. It's when we get distracted, fill our minds with knowledge or don't use our gifts and become spritually poor as a result that is the problem and may endanger our soul. The best thing we can do is pray for sinners, for their conversion, for their eternal good and the good of the entire planet right now. Anyhow, that is where I am at on my spritual growth path. I know that not everyone is going to agree with me and that is okay. It isn't worth it to me to argue and create any hard feelings with anyone since that will be a spritual road block for me. Again, who is right and who is wrong is just irrelavent. We will all know soon enough whether it is in this life or the next.
Hi Jon, if you go to a thread entitled 'Trial, Tribulation and Triumph' started by myself, you will find a summary. Steve
Thanks. I do recall you creating that thread, and I think I didn't look past things that are continually bumped up.
