Jane, it's not my purpose here to argue anybody into believing that Vassula Ryden is a 'true prophet' (to carry any weight other than expression of personal opinion, that would take a much more extended study with comprehensive documentation and textual analysis which is out of the scope of a forum like this). Anyone who wishes to investigate with an open mind should simply download the pdf of ‘True Life in God’ and decide for her/himself. What I do however believe, on the grounds that I have already stated, and as someone who has both read the totality of her messages in the original language, viewed images of the manuscript and familiarized himself with the critiques levelled against Vassula Ryden, is that to label her a 'false prophet' is unwarranted given the evidence. Not only unwarranted, but not necessarily prudent given that there are many high-level figures both in the Catholic (including several Cardinals and Archbishops) and Orthodox Churches who clearly take the opposite view. In particular, if anybody seriously wishes to imply that Bishop Jozef Punt, whose discernment concerning Ida Peerdeman in 2002 was accepted by the Church, has supported a 'false prophet' by his statements at the True Life in God 2011 Ecumenical pilgrimage (similarly Cardinal Telesphore Toppo), that would be a grave allegation which should not be made hastily and without full knowledge of the case, if at all. I’m not talking about informal comments on an internet forum like this, but rather the public attacks on VR addressed to Church authorities which can easily be found on the web. More generally, I think we all need to be very careful before bandying terms such as 'false prophet' around if there is still any possibility whatsoever that a visionary may indeed have received a word from God. So everybody please, please think (and pray !) at least twice before using language like this about anybody. It's fine to express personal disbelief, lack of interest, the conviction that locutions are the result of personal meditation rather than direct revelation, or a desire not to be involve oneself with a given seer out of obedience to the local Diocesan authorities. All that’s OK. But if something is attacked as 'false prophecy' and then later found to be worthy of belief (which can happen, the case of Faustina Kowalska being the most obvious modern instance), then critics will have been opposing not a human word but a Divine one. Which is a truly serious business, especially if defamation has been involved and the boundaries of acceptable discourse violated. So in any case that remains open (and Vassula Ryden is definitely in that category, whatever certain hostile websites may be saying) - skeptics would do well to moderate their statements. The worst thing that can be done is to throw around public accusations that a visionary is the mouthpiece of God’s Enemy. A sobering meditation on Matthew 12:22-32 ought to give us all food for thought ... and stop us from hitting the 'post reply' button!! One last point as a published author of academic articles whose responsibilities have included providing expert reports on proposals made to an international research funding body in the area of Religion and Science. Aside from the proceedings with the CDF, I have yet to come across a critique circulating about VR on the internet whose methodology in my view meets the scholarly standards appropriate for publication in a reputable peer-reviewed academic journal. In Christ, Peter B.
Far more serious than the above Peter is to lead people astray. The path of true saints is never easy and they are often accused of falsehood, something which they are happy to bear out of love for Christ.
I am just an average person trying to live out my faith well. I would rather be accused of a falsehood and watch people climb into Heaven than be leading people astray. Being accused of falsehoood should be water off their backs..
Peter, The bottom line is that the CDF cited doctrinal errors in the "messages". The Lord doesnt do doctrinal errors. Also the dialogue changed nothing. The notification retains its full force-meaning that Mrs Ryden's responses were not enough for the decision to change. The fact that she has supporters in bishops and even cardinals doesnt change the fact that the highest authority under the Pope (who later became Benedict XVI) spoke in an official capacity.
"Far better to believe than not believe." Can be a comment used when speaking of God, it is a perfect saying. But not with prophecy. I think "better not to believe, than to believe." Because if it ends up being from God, and you have been obedient to what the church says, God will not punish you because you would have done no harm. But if it happens to be from the underworld, you could be led astray. And by the sounds of what Jose is saying about MDM, we can say they are being led astray all because they believed. Does this make sense?
Please do not encourage fear of prophecy. If one's faith is practiced daily, and prayer life is strong, then you are putting on the armor of God, and you can "be not afraid", as John Paul II said in his first words as Pope. With that proper disposition, scripture instructs us to do the opposite of "better not to believe": 1 Thessalonians 5 Rejoice always, 17 pray constantly, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. 19 Do not quench the Spirit, 20 do not despise prophesying, 21 but test everything; hold fast what is good, 22 abstain from every form of evil. 23 May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Ephesians 6 10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the equipment of the gospel of peace; 16 besides all these, taking the shield of faith, with which you can quench all the flaming darts of the evil one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18 Pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication.
Oh no. Never fear. God has given us prophets for many years. They have come as a great blessing to us and have helped us get back on track. But we should also listen when Jesus says to be on our guard as so not to be led astray. When I went to Lourdes. The messages The Mother of God gave to Bernadette would ring in my ears while there. So much so, I had to kiss the ground for the conversion of sinners. Ha. I wonder if I would have done that if I was in my own neighbourhood in fear someone might see???
We cannot say that all prophecies which are not from God are from the devil. Some really do believe that these messages are from God, when they are a figment of their imagination, something that they really want. They are not aware that this is a figment of their imagination. Some think it is God, but then when they make mistakes they must realise that it isn't God but their pride causes them not to see this reality and to keep on with their prophesies, changing them where necessary. Here is what a true false prophet (one who is guided by the anti christ looks like) he tries to do away with the person going to confession etc, because he simply cannot stand it. I think it would be good for everyone to read this, so that we can see that even those who are mistaken are not evil or possessed. I state again, the devil couldn't bear one of his subjects to take Holy Communion!!! http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2011/12/sister-magdalena-of-cross-nun-who-made.html
Stephen, I think it’s ‘agree to disagree’ time here …Of course you’re not the only one to argue for a ‘strong’ reading of the 1995 Notification - but again, clearly Bishop Felix Toppo (who gave the 2005 Nihil Obstat to the 'True Life in God' messages) and Ramon Arguelles, Archbishop of Lipa (who provided the Imprimatur), interpreted the subsequent results of the dialogue between the CDF and Mrs Ryden differently from Vassula’s critics. So there is evident disagreement between those opposed to Vassula Ryden and her supporters - including a number within the Catholic Magisterium itself - as to the combined implications of the 1995 Notification, 2004 Clarifications and the 2007 letters of Cardinal Levada and CDF n.2 Angelo Amato. What we have here is a genuine theological dispute: not the first and certainly not the last in the history of the Church! The critics may consider VR's case as shut, but it obvious that there is no unanimity on this matter, so the situation would seem to be something of an impasse. For anyone who wishes to judge for her/himself, the complete proceedings of Vassula Ryden's dialogue with the CDF can be downloaded at http://www.tlig.org/downloads/en/cdf.pdf Cardinal Ratzinger’s official position expressed in his 2004 letter to the Episcopal Conferences on pp. 7-8 of the pdf was that, ‘concerning the participation in the ecumenical prayer groups organised by Mrs Rydén, the Catholic faithful should be called to follow the dispositions of the Diocesan Bishops’. Logically, it would therefore seem that Bishops themselves who have participated in ‘True Life in God’ pilgrimages cannot be regarded as being disobedient. What ought to strike the reader (regardless of whether (s)he considers the 'True Life in God' messages as inspired or not) of the pdf is both the impresive subtlety of the theological conversation and the respect with which it was conducted. The letter addressed by Prosper Grech to Mrs Ryden requesting clarification on contentious points of theology is surely exemplary in terms of how such disputed questions should be handled. Unfortunately, I have the distinct impression that his dignified and gentle tone has not characterized much subsequent discussion of the TLIG corpus on the internet, which is regrettable. It should be added that Cardinal Ratzinger's own statements on the matter of 'True Life in God' were not only considerably more nuanced than is often made out to be the case, but seem to have evolved over time (though not to ‘approval’, it must be acknowledged). This evolution is chronicled by Niels Hvidt, the Danish theologian who requested the dialogue between Vassula R. and the CDF (and who also took the photo which set off the present discussion) : http://www.cdf-tlig.org/report.pdf It should be stressed that Niels Hvidt is a reputable academic, whose OUP book on Post-Biblical Prophecy was given a foreword by Cardinal Ratzinger – a fact which surely carries weight in terms of his trustworthiness. According to Hvidt, the Cardinal’s 2002 verdict on V. Ryden’s responses to the questions posed by Prosper Grech was ‘Ah ! Die Vassula hat ja sehr gut geantwortet’ [‘’Ah. Vassula has replied very well’], while Grech himself found them ‘excellent’ (pdf p. 5). Moreover, Hvidt states that Cardinal Ratzinger ‘himself told me that, although he would like to see a new Notification, he had to “obey the cardinals”. I gathered from this statement that some cardinals were against the prospect of a distinctly positive outcome to a dialogue with a contemporary mystic that could result in a new Notification rendering the former Notification obsolete’ (ibid.). This constitutes a very strong statement, from which it is evident that Niels Hvidt, who not only instigated the CDF-Vassula dialogue but served as one of Mrs Ryden's theological consultants, takes a very different and far more positive view of it to that offered in some quarters. As I said, time to agree to disagree on all this … Peter B.
This message that I am leaving on here now is especially for padraiq ,padraiq we are now living in very evil times ,where confusion is amongst the people of god ,outside infiltration of an evil scence ,is everywhere , were one is condeming the other, their are people claiming other people as false , were their own judgement and opinions of others have been interfeared with by the evil one ,what are we going to expect in the coming months from now , at this rate , were going to expect chaos , jesus as told us before he returns ,will he find any faith at all left , with the people on earth ,is it little wonder ,their will only be a very small remnant left ,when Christ returns , with regards. The warning , stop bickering with one another ,and lets get back to prayer , not using hatefull words against one another, we do not have a false pope or an anti pope , we have a very very holy pope in pope Francis 1 , this as been a. God send , and come direct from heaven , but i tell you all , if this hadnt happened ,we would all be in very serious trouble right now , pope francis 1 ,is a very very holy Man ,and as been especially chosen for these times we are now living in ,pope Francis when as cardinal jorge mario, begoglio ,one week before being elected pope , gave the medjugorje visionary Ivan ,permission to have his apparition with our lady ,in Luna park in Argentina ,after his scheduled visit. To uroguay was cancelled at the last moment ,as ive just mentioned this installment of pope Francis 1 ,as pope is heaven sent as a gift from heaven for all of us , use this very very precious gift given to us all , this pope is going to do wonderfull things for gods people , back the pope , as he's going to give the Vatican a clean sweep , and also to try and help to save this world from complete destruction , in the possible short reign he may have with us , the things he will say and do ,may well upset many ,his work granted for him to do ,as come from heaven , back the pope ,and pray very hard for him ,with all your hearts , if the media of the world , turns against him ,because of his good work for god , we will then have ,very very serious problems ,and those working against god even inside the church , they will install the false prophet , and the media (false image media that is ) will be very happy then , when chaos will reign , god is whatching the false one , everyday , he thinks he cant be seen , but gods whatching him all the time , and he will expose him to the nations , to everyone on this forum , back and support pope frsncis 1 , or the destruction of the world by its own self will occur , and that can happen very quickly indeed , once the false one gets in ,god bless our most holy pope Francis 1 , everyone on here ,please pray for him , for a very long reign , if the evil media ,and by that i don't mean all the media , just those against gods plans ,turn against the pope ,it could then be a short reign , I feel pope francis 1 ,could well consecrate Russia to our ladys immaculate heart ,and also the 5 and final dogma ,in regards our lady , were she is mediatrix ,co redemptrix ,and advocate, join our ladys army , and pray that pope Francis 1 , carries out these intentions , we have a pope , who cares , we have a pope familiar with medjugorje , also may I add , before I go ,id like to tell you all ,fr petar of medjugorje , does give his backing to the messages of true life in god ,and to vassula ryden , he said the messages were of a devine origin ,fr laurantan also gives vassula is full backing ,vassulas spiritual director is a roman catholic priest , from england, we have a pope and hes a very holy pope ,doesnt that brighten up your day ,long live this pope ,but its also now down to us ,to support him ,from now on ,or else , god bless you all ,padraiq if you call me sometime, I've other things to tell you which are important ,
Thank you Norman! I am afraid MDM is causing much trouble and too many are drawn into this..as other false prophets, not sure of all , and the Time magazine published some stuff too.. back to prayer, on our knees.
I firmly believe in Garabandal, Medjugojre, Fatima, Akita and many places the Blessed Mother has appeared . WE know her voice/words by now to discern...
God bless you ,await with joy , and to you padraiq ,and to all on this forum , I feel my mission could be coming to an end soon , i can tell you all ,their is alot to happen in the weeks and months ahead ,things have been put in place along time ago , the apostasy is general now , please do not get taken in by what you read in certain newspapers , in certain ones ,they have already started their attacks on the new pope , when he starts to speak out in regards gay marriage ,contraception ,women priests , abuses , the media will gang up on him , and make life very tough for him ,but hes been given this mission from god ,and he's up for the battle ahead ,and with our prayers ,he will continue the challenge , with the crucifix in his hand and the rosary beads also , the secret of fatima ,is about to unfold before our very eyes , ask all your priests to reinstate the powerfull st micheal prayer ,to be said after each mass , a few months ago in my parish ,I prayed to our lady ( the queen of peace ,medjugorje ) for our priest to reinstate the st micheal prayer after mass , within 2 weeks, my prayers were answered ,prayers change things for the better, god bless you all ,from Norman .
It will all unfold soon? I understand what you are saying Norman. add the St Michael prayer after mass and in between the others I have elected to read less or nil from now on and just here on motheofgodforum..but i think it is best for me to vow to remain in silence and pray only. My children, as you say are my prayers. The rosary and the crucifix. adoration and isolation for awhile
You asked me what is my mission , for a good number of years now ,ever since when our lady first spoke to me in year 1997, then the following year ,i started to receive visions in 1998 ,which was the year of the holy spirit as that was the year dedicated to the holy spirit by pope john Paul 11 , I received many many visions in regards future events ,in regards medjugorje ,garabandal , the church , america ,united kingdom , tidal waves, and including many many other events that would take place , I also received visions in my own home of the sacred heart of jesus , our lady ,and also of angels , what i was given in regards visions in year 1998 in regards to people ,in many cases , have already taken place ,and their are many people in the united lingdom who can confirm what I am saying as come true , a few years ago on this forum ,in a number of visions i received ,i described in full , events that were going to take place at both garabandal (the great miracle ) and medjugorje ( the third secret ,the sign to appear their,were our lady first appeared ,which will be on apparition mountain ) their are terrible events ,which i am not going to describe ,that could happen , but our lord as said ,can be mitigated (lessened ,but not put off entirely , you who asked me the question ,can in your own thoughts be thinking ,he's just another false prophet ,well their are many other people around in this world ,were in many countries ,can answer any questions you want to ask about me ,I do not put myself on a pedestal ,my mission is fully focused on ,like many others around the world,on our ladys plan ,for the triumph of her immaculate heart to take place as soon as possible , not all the. Visionaries in this world are false , many are suffering terrible persecutions beyond what you could ever imagine , yet certain people think incorectly and assume all visionaries are false ,their are false prophets out their ,but are we to judge ,the false prophets , will infact be shown up for what they are , and the truth will come out about them , without aby words being spoken by anybody ,the truth is ,anything that comes directly from god or our lady can never be destroyed ,no matter how much the devil trys , people should remember this ,the devil works through people ,but only if you allow him too , so the answer to all problems is ,dont allow him in , holy water that is blessed to sprincle around ones home is also a great help , i have undergone lie tests in the past , to prove to people ,that what ive received by means of visions , is the truth , reason for just mentioning this ,I should have put it in earlier in this writing ,ill end now ,by saying an hail Mary , hail Mary full of grace ,the lord is with thee ,blessed art thou amongst women ,and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus ,holy Mary ,mother of god ,pray for us sinners ,now and at the hour of our death ,amen .
Sorry, I didn't know. When did your visions finish? Yes. I believe everyone knows that anything that comes directly from God or Our Lady can never be destroyed. But I don't understand. What is your mission? What has Our Lady or Jesus asked you to do?
