Hi Fatima. I am open to be proven wrong. This I welcome very much. As I wish to do the right thing. But to prove me wrong, please do it by using Gospel or words of the Saints, and not heresay words of saints. Yes. I do reject the idea of a 'warning' as such. I see it as Jesus coming in His Mercy. This is what He says. Doesn't He? Am I to say He is wrong? No, I believe Him when He says He is coming in Mercy. But I don't reject an illumination of conscience. This will happen, because Jesus said we will see this because His Father has decided on this. The chastisement. I think we are starting to see it. The Bible tells us it's coming, so ofcourse I believe. The Miracle. I assume you are talking about the miracle Conchita is to announce. Let me just say. If you believe what Jesus said to St Faustina I can't see how this miracle is possible. I hope that helps. 378 St Faustina said...... He desires everyone to know this before He comes again as Judge. He wants souls to come to know Him first as King of Mercy. When this triumph comes, we shall already have entered the new life in which there is no suffering. But before this, your soul [of the spiritual director] will be surfeited with bitterness at the sight of the destruction of your efforts. However, this will only appear to be so, because what God has once decided upon,
Jane, those who seriously study eschatology nearly all understand the Great Apostacy is followed by the "Moment of Mercy", "Warning", Illumination of conscience", "Miniture Judgement" (all synonomous for the same event), prior to the "Great Mricacle" " or "Sign in the Sky", followed by Chastisements and new era of 1000 years of peace on earth. I doubt that you will be convinced, but here you go: I pronounced a great day… wherein the terrible Judge should reveal all men’s consciences and try every man of each kind of religion. This is the day of change, this is the Great Day which I threatened, comfortable to the well-being, and terrible to all heretics. —St. Edmund Campion, Cobett’s Complete Collection of State Trials…, Vol. I, p. 1063. The consciences of this beloved people must be violently shaken so that they may "put their house in order"… A great moment is approaching, a great day of light… it is the hour of decision for mankind. —Servant of God, Maria Esperanza; Antichrist and the End Times, Fr. Joseph Ianuzzi, P. 37 (Volumne 15-n.2, Featured Article from www.sign.org)Suddenly I saw the complete condition of my soul as God sees it. I could clearly see all that is displeasing to God. I did not know that even the smallest transgressions will have to be accounted for. What a moment! Who can describe it? To stand before the Thrice-Holy-God! —St. Faustina; Divine Mercy in My Soul, Diary, n. 36
I think I understand what you are saying (maybe ). It almost seems consistent with another individual's interpretation (Casey540, the youtube poster). He sees the "Door of Mercy" as the Second Coming (somewhere in relation with the Illumination and/or the Miracle - which he believes is 5-9-13 feast of Ascension - based on Tilma of Guadalupe analysis), and the "Door of Justice" as his Third Coming (final judgement). It kind of makes for a Catholic version of the evangelical protestant doctrine of the "Rapture", though not before the tribulation, but during, I suppose. This may be heretical, according to church teaching on eschatology. Maybe someone who knows that teaching clearly can point it out if so. It is interesting though, that the early church fathers espoused the doctrine that there WILL be a period of 1000 years, after a purification, that we exist, in a different form of life, on a renewed earth, and the church and Christ will reign for this 7th day sabbath of 1000 years (but Christ will not reign as a man - rather, it may be the reign of His Holy Spirit, after the crushing of the head of the serpent, i.e. the Triumph). Pope Benedict has stated that the church has made "no official pronouncement" on the nature of the 1000 years. However, I feel that THAT period is what is known as the 3rd millenium of the church, and is about to begin. When JPII wrote "Advent of the Third Millenium", maybe he was preparing the church for this period (not New Years Day 2000). So....How do we transition to this "different form of existence", which is probably something like the three figures in the Transfiguration? 1. Do we die and pass through to it by accepting His Mercy in a mini-judgement? (close to your idea?)2. Do we die as martyrs during the tribulation, while our blood pays for the miracle, and then we resurrect in the new form shortly after when the Triumph is complete after the possible chastisement? (Garabandal possibility?)3. Do we receive a mini judgement, then a miracle, then a possible chastisement, then die in Grace and Mercy and resurrect in the new form? (Garabandal possibility?)4. Do we receive a mini judgement, then a miracle, then a possible chastisement, then LIVE through the possible chastisement (in a refuge), and then see our bodies transformed "in an instant", "in the blink of an eye", to the new form and join those who previously died (as above) and are thus resurrected? (Garabandal possibility?) We pray and sing about this all the time: Come Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of the faithful, and kindle in them the fire of your love. Send forth your Spirit and they shall be created, And You shall renew the face of the earth. I actually like a version sung in a chorus by Donna Cori Gibson based on a JPII prayer: Come, Holy Spirit fill our hearts. In the faithful light a spark Of the fire of your love. Send forth your Spirit with rebirth And renew the face of the earth With the light from above. Also in the Our Father: Thy kingdom come, Thy Will be done, On Earth as it is in heaven. And in the Creed at Mass: ...and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead And the LIFE of the WORLD TO COME. Amen
Jane. The quotes you have provided so far to support possible viewpoints you have, have left me uneasy as to what extent i should be relying on your 'reading' of the writings of St Faustina. But i have now drawn a big positive out of this feeling of unease. I have got off my big backside and searched on the internet and have been pleasantly surprised to find that the Diary of St Faustina is freely available. Continue on your thoughts but i shall be following up on your quotes. In this way i sincerely thank you for bringing me to the Diary. And now to question your reading of diary entry #378 (which you part quoted in post #16). i shall c&p more of that diary entry than you do. For it then becomes clearer that the entry is related to a prophesy regarding the trials that the Devotion to the Divine Mercy would have to undergo. Once as I was talking with my spiritual director, I had an interior vision-quicker than lightning-of his soul in great suffering, in such agony that God touches very few souls with such fire. The suffering arises from this work. There will come a time when this work, which God is demanding so very much, will be as though utterly undone. And then God will act with great power, which will give evidence of its authenticity. It will be a new splendor for the Church, although it has been dormant in it from long ago. That God is infinitely merciful, no one can deny. He desires everyone to know this before He comes again as Judge. He wants souls to come to know Him first as King of Mercy. When this triumph comes, we shall already have entered the new life in which there is no suffering. But before this, your soul [of the spiritual director] will be surfeited with bitterness at the sight of the destruction of your efforts. However, this will only appear to be so, because what God has once decided upon, He does not change. But although this destruction will be such only in outward appearance, the suffering will be real. When will this happen? I do not know. How long will it last? I do not know.[89] But God has promised a great grace especially to you and to all those... who will proclaim My great mercy. I shall protect them Myself at the hour of death, as My own glory. And even if the sins of soul are as dark as night, when the sinner turns to My mercy he gives Me the greatest praise and is the glory of My Passion. When a soul praises My goodness, Satan trembles before it and flees to the very bottom of hell. http://www.discerninghearts.com/PDF/St. Faustina Kowalska - Diary.pdf
I do not pretend to know it all. I don't. And I think anyone who says they do know it all is a lier. These things are all a mystery. In fact I am not convinced on how it will all go, that is why I welcome anyone to show me how they think it will go. But I feel we have enough saints out there that propheciesed and ofcourse the gospel to try and put things in some order. One thing I am convinced about is. Jesus said He is coming in His Divine unfathamable Mercy. So please Fatima, anyone work with me, not against me. Show me where I am right, show me where I am wrong. As I will use words of Jesus to St Faustina I will use Gospel. ANd when I give my own opinion on how it might go, I am open to be corrected.
Thanks Jerry, I just came on to post the whole of #378 because it did seem to speak of the trials that the Devotion to the Divine Mercy would have to go through when you read the whole thing.
Hi Jon,The only way to work this out (I believe) is not to be closed minded. And listen to the Gospel and the saints Our Lord gave us to help us through.You see we are in the end of times, and there are false prophets everwhere. This one follows this one and that one follows that one. It becomes so confusing.I believe you are the guy to be able to help make some sense out of this.My timeline done with Gospel and saints is.. and I laugh, because I don't know exactly, but it is a starting point.We are already starting to see the start of the chastisement, it will get alot worse. (I don't need to explain what will happen, I think we are all clear on this)#83 st Faustina....and there will be great darkness over the whole earth. Then the sign of the cross will appear in the sky.The 3 days of darkness has started. (St Pio)Then Jesus comes in His great unfathamable Divine Mercy.But woe to them if they do not recognize this time of My visitation. (1160 St Faustina's diary) I first open wide the door of My mercy. He who refuses to pass through the door of My mercy must pass through the door of My justice... (1146 St Faustina) This next is my understanding of # 378. If we take this door of mercy, we will enter the new life where there is no suffering. Is this the 1000 years of peace???? But before we enter this peace, we will see our sins. This is because God the Father wants this because what he once decided doesnt change. I think we have to live through this 3 days of darkness too???? Now this is where I hope it ends for all of you and myself. But if we do not take this door of mercy, we will go through the door of judgememt. Who is to argue this? This is what Jesus said. "Jesus, I trust in You."
Hi Jerry, I'm sorry you feel uneasy as to what extent you should be relying on my readings of St Faustina. I have no reason to decieve anyone. I only ever wish for the truth. I am quoting from Divine Mercy Diary In My Soul book. If I quote I will give the quote number. If I give my own interpretation, I will try and remember to say it is my own interpretation. I will avoid as much as possible my own interpretation, because I understand when this happens confusion can set in, and I don't want this. But I welcome you or anyone to help me to understand these great prophecies. But I can't stress enough to use the words of Gospel or the Saints. We are all part of the Body of Our Lord Jesus Christ. We work together to salvation. I really believe this. By the way Jerry, I am so pleased you are reading St Faustina's diary. Can I suggest to do it with a notebook, it will help you too. "Jesus, I trust in You."
But in early December 2012, someone showed me something that made me sit up. It made me do alot of research. Sadly, and I do say sadly, I no long believe it was The Mother of God appearing at Garabandal. Jane, You start out by saying Garabandal had a positive influence on you. Then you said someone showed you something which made you doubt. But you never explain what made you change your mind. If you have made up your mind based on what one person said, maybe you could share it with others so we may better understand what you have learned. I am involved with a Divine Mercy Cenacle group that meets every other week,..so we are enriched by the many beautiful writings in the diary. Are you involved with a group?
Hello Sunburst, I am like a race horse on the run. Once I get going I am hard to stop. This is my down fall. I need to try and restrain myself. I wish I had started this thread differently. I suppose I wanted to show I am open to be shown the other side of the story, and then I can make my judgement. St Paul changed his mind, so there is nothing wrong with this. No. I am not involved in "any group". Believe me when I say. I did not want this change of heart. I Loved being in Garabandal. No. I did not change my mind because of what someone showed me, but it did make me sit up and do more research. The reason I didn't elaborate on my change of mind is because I seem to have a way of ruffling feathers, so I am waiting for permission from Padraig for me to show all of why I don't believe. But to tell you the truth, I probably don't need to show this, because you can see for yourself how Jesus says He is coming in His Mercy. This is the copy and paste from St Faustina's diary which made me sit up. It is different to Garabandal. 83 Write this: before I come as the just Judge, I am coming first as the King of Mercy. Before the day of justice arrives, there will be given to people a sign in the heavens of this sort: All light in the heavens will be extinguished, and there will be great darkness over the whole earth. Then the sign of the cross will be seen in the sky, and from the openings where the hands and the feet of the Savior were nailed will come forth great lights which will light up the earth for a period of time. This will take place shortly before the last day.
Jane, I will consider this prayerfully and respond on Sunday. Safe in the Flames of the Sacred Heart!
In response to this Jane (my interpretation of new life) remembering Jesus said before we see our sins we would have already entered into the new life. The only reason we see our sins is because The Almighty Father has once decided on it. I will show the quote at another time when I find it. But Jesus says something like... it will only be those who accepts/recognises His Mercy will enter the new life then. If you don't recognise this time of mercy, you will have to go through the door of Judgement. So it seems quite clear that Jesus is so full of Mercy. That much so we can avoid our deserved judgement. Does anyone understand what I am showing? Does it make sense? [/quote] It is my understanding that when anyone recognizes their sins they have already entered into new life. Haven't all our lives changed as we have been praying and living by the Gospels more and more? Aren't they continuously changing? So we are actually in new life. It doesn't mean that you have to wait until death for this new life. Even a person repenting on their death bed has entered into new life, even though they are unable to go out and change things physically because they are too sick/frail... Their heart has changed. A thief could get up one morning and decide that he isn't going to steal anymore, once he makes that decision he has already begun his new life. He is no longer a thief.. As the thief then progressed upon this new life he would become more aware daily of just how far he had strayed and how much wrong he had done. And so it is for us, the more we change and put the Gospel's first and try to live out our commandments, the more we see our own sin and all that needs to change. So, God helping us in this as the consciences of many are so dulled (and not all by their own doing) Many Catholics simply stopped passing the faith onto their children, or were face value catholics just to get their children into good schools... And Catholics are the elite as in given all the graces and wonderful knowledge through the Sacraments etc. I am not saying that we are the best but that we have been given so much. And if we who have been given so much have failed so badly, well the rest will have fallen too, and as we know, we are so far from Grace as a whole. God is coming to save mankind from itself yet again, and to teach those whose parents/teachers/communities failed to teach or to show the right way. As God Himself says I will teach them myself, I will place my law in their hearts. They shall be my people and I shall be their God. Yes, this happened with Christ coming to Earth. But now is the time for God to show mankind His mercy one more time, and an illumination is just the way to do it, and it is a very fair, good and just way too.. So many are abused, have never been shown love, or witnessed their parents living a selfless life, there hasn't been much good examples on many communities either, so how are these little ones to know what is good? God is about to show them, so that they have the same advantage as the rest of us, and those of us who think we aren't doing too badly, because we have grown so dim and fallen so far. Well God in His infinite mercy (as He wants ALL mankind in Heaven where possible) will show us too. We will be expected to grow up fast and to help all the others who are only just becoming fully aware. There will be many who will appear to be having breakdowns.. They will need a lot of love, a lot of gentleness, compassion, and encouragement.. We in turn will be learning to love as Christ wanted us all to love from the very beginning.. Sadly, some will fall away again. But a lot of this will be because our Churches are so low in numbers in those who are truly living their faith, and we have so few priests that it will be difficult to give everyone the correct teachings of their faith. Each of us will be responsible and expected to help in this mission.
From St Faustina's Diary. Vilnius, August 2, 1934. 85 On Friday, after Holy Communion, I was carried in spirit before the throne of God. There I saw the heavenly Powers which incessantly praise God. Beyond the throne I saw a brightness inaccessible to creatures, and there only the Incarnate Word enters as Mediator. When Jesus entered this light, I heard these words, Write down at once what you hear: I am the Lord in My essence and am immune to orders or needs. If I call creatures into being - that is the abyss of My mercy. And at that very moment I found myself, as before, in our chapel at my kneeler, just as Mass had ended. I already had these words written. "Jesus, I trust in You."
I have no fear when Jesus comes in His unfathamable Divine Mercy. My plan is to take His door of mercy so I don't have to go through His door of judgement. I hope you all want to join me. St Faustina said..... 848 While I was saying the chaplet, I heard a voice which said, Oh, what great graces I will grant to souls who say this chaplet; the very depths of My tender mercy are stirred for the sake of those who say the chaplet. Write down these words, My daughter. Speak to the world about My mercy; let all mankind recognize My unfathomable mercy. It is a sign for the end times; after it will come the day of justice. While there is still time, let them have recourse to the fount of My mercy; let them profit from the Blood and Water which gushed forth for them. O human souls, where are you going to hide on the day of God's anger? Take refuge now in the fount of God's mercy. O what a great multitude of souls I see! They worshiped the Divine Mercy and will be singing the hymn of praise for all eternity.
I am completely dependent on God and His mercy. I am completely dependent on Him to be able to pray. I am completely dependent on Him for my salvation. I don't trust myself to get to Heaven that is for sure!!! Although I believe in Him wholeheartedly, I cannot get there without Him. Mother Mary in one hand and Christ in the other. With The Holy Spirit helping me along the way and enabling me to be able to respond to the call of The Father. We are so fortunate!
So true! We can not get there without Him. I wouldn't hold my breath in getting to Heaven if it wasn't for Jesus coming in His unfathamable Divine Mercy.. But now I know. If I am alive on this earth when He comes in His Mercy, I will escape all judgement and enter into the new life where there is no pain. I believe Him when He says this. I have no need to fear anymore. I am very happy. For some months now, every day, I offer at the Holy Mass that everyone on the forum recognises His coming. And ofcourse for my family and friends. "Jesus, I trust in You." Jesus said to St Faustina.... #429 "You will prepare the world for My final coming."
You know something else. I am so happy. I know that I have been forgiven absolutely everything in my life because I have forgiven all those who hurt me. And we are all so like Christ when we pray for our enemies. God the Father looks down and recognizes His son in us. How wonderful is that!!!
What I love about the prophecies of St Faustina is they are supported by the Church. So we can trust them completely. What Jesus said to St Faustina will never need to be twisted to suit ourselves. We can rely on His words completely. Praise and Thanks to You, Lord Jesus Christ for offering us your Great Mercy. "Jesus, I trust in You." Jesus said to St Faustina....... 1577 Tell souls not to place within their own hearts obstacles to My mercy, which so greatly wants to act within them. My mercy works in all those hearts which open their doors to it. Both the sinner and the righteous person have need of My mercy. Conversion, as well as perseverance, is a grace of My mercy.
And when Jesus gives us this message...... What have we to fear? Salvation is for all who want to enter the door of Mercy, even for the greatest of sinners. Jesus said to St Faustina......... 1146 [Let] the greatest sinners place their trust in My mercy. They have the right before others to trust in the abyss of My mercy. My daughter, write about My mercy towards tormented souls. Souls that make an appeal to My mercy delight Me. To such souls I grant even more graces than they ask. I cannot punish even the greatest sinner if he makes an appeal to My compassion, but on the contrary, I justify him in My unfathomable and inscrutable mercy. Write: before I come as a just Judge, I first open wide the door of My mercy. He who refuses to pass through the door of My mercy must pass through the door of My justice...
Jane, This has been such a great discussion and today at Holy Mass I thought of your emphasis on Jesus' Mercy shown us by Saint Faustina. Agnus Dei Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world; have mercy on us! Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world; have mercy on us! Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world; grant us peace! Mary's Child has also wonderfully expressed how each of us has already had God's loving Mercy extended to us. Such a tearfully tender moment when we perceived and experienced this precious gift! But I also want to comment on your contrasting of Conchita's description and Faustina's description. One is described from the human perspective and the other from Our Lord Himself. You highlight that one stresses fear and foreboding while the other elicits mercy and hope. In other words, how could this point to the same event? If we look at one of today's Scriptures from Holy Mass, we witness one side of a similar contrast. In 1Corintians, St. Paul is describing Israel's desert experience from the human perspective: These things happened as examples for us, so that we might not desire evil things, as they did. Do not grumble as some of them did, and suffered death by the destroyer. These things happened to them as an example, and they have been written down as a warning to us, upon whom the end of the ages has come. But if we were to look at the wilderness years from God's viewpoint, the desert becomes an experience of allurement: Hosea 2: 14 "Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak tenderly to her. 15 And there I will give her her vineyards, and make the Valley of Achor a door of hope. And there she shall answer as in the days of her youth, as at the time when she came out of the land of Egypt. If one were to read these passages without taking into consideration the perspective from which they're seen, one would be hard pressed to think they are the same event or time period. Why the difference? Man too easily sees events from a linear perspective and our awesome Lord sees them from a eternal perspective. We see the painful failures. He sees the wooing and ultimate hope of salvation. Praise our God who gives us hope. One last thought on which I think no one commented: Padraig's word of caution to us all: If we kinda try to put the mystical stuff into too analytical criteria we kinda loose it like tring to come up with a mathematical formula for a painting. What I am saying mysticism is a lot like art , you don't critique a great painting with a microscope any more than you try to do physics with a paint brush. We see great mystical experiences better through the eyes of the heart rather than reductionism ( I mean reducing them to constituent parts}. You are using your brain to see, try prayer use your heart. I don't mean put your brain in the bin, no, but see with the heart first. I think we must all hold the marvelous and mysterious gift of prophecy gently in our hands! LOL! Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
