They're "all inclusive" except for those who would present the facts that differ with them. Welcome to the "Dim" strategy.
Think about this in a practical sense. If only 10% of Catholics (which is probably a high number) are paying any attention to what PF is directing to take place within the academic and liturgical reforms.....what does this leave us, the church? I contend it leaves us on a life support system. It leaves us to ponder Jesus words, "when I return, will I find any faithful"?
Wow! Misguidance seems to continue. Also, I remember Fr. Gobbi in an interview with, I think, Mother Angelica, or it may have been in one of his talks, scoffing at "Boff"....in just the way he said the name at the time told you what he thought of the man!
Kind of where I am too. I wish I was not this cynical but there is a multilevel plan afoot to overturn the Church and replace it with an anti church that wears the clothes but lacks the soul. I am hoping it is being done in ignorance but I believe it is the devil's plan making use of "useful idiots".
The 'cynical' (in its modern sense) have given cynicism a bad name. Originally, the Greek Cynics were a branch of philosophy who aspired to live in virtue and whose principle attribute was their immunity to, if you might forgive me, bullshit and their tendency to expose the statements of the sophistic to their bare-bones truth. Not inappropriate qualities for our own times. Many are 'idiots', but the designation is too charitable for some.
I've learned much of this material from a blog entitled the Orthosphere. It's mostly Catholic, but also features a few (sound) Protestants and even one sensible Mormon. It approaches the orthodox worldview from a secular (though absolutely not a secularist) point of view. It helps to put all these subjects into a broad historical perspective and can be an escape from contemporary angst, at times. Some excellent links to other sites too.
Pope: I’m Not Afraid Of A Schism Aboard the Papal plane (CNN)Pope Francis says he is not afraid of a schism within the Catholic Church, even as he confronts criticism from conservative Catholics about his leadership. "I pray that there will not be schisms," the Pope said Tuesday, "but I am not afraid." The Pope's remarks came in response to a question from a journalist at a press conference aboard the papal plane. Francis was returning to Rome from Africa, where he spent six days in Mozambique, Madagascar and Mauritius. A schism is a formal break within the church, usually due to disputes over Catholic teaching. "There have been many schisms in the Church," Francis said, referring to the institution's long history of religious disputes. Last Wednesday, on the outbound flight to Africa, Pope Francis said it's an "honor" whentraditionalist American Catholics attack him. But the criticism of Francis isn't only coming from the United States, the Pope said on Tuesday. "They are a little bit everywhere, even in the Curia," he said, referring to the Vatican's bureaucracy. "At least those who criticize have the honesty to say it. I like that. I don't like it when the criticisms are under the table and they smile and show their teeth and then there is a knife in the back. This is not loyal, this is not human." Francis also defended himself against accusations by some conservative Catholics that he is too liberal, saying that he is in line with other Popes like John Paul II. "The Pope is too communist," Francis said, paraphrasing some conservative sentiment against him. "The social things that I said are the same that John Paul II said," referring to the social teachings of the church on topics like economics, politics and the environment. Francis suggested that some of those who attack him may have psychological problems and should be treated kindly. "When you see rigid Christians, bishops, priests, you know there are problems there," he said. "We need to be gentle with these people and accompany them." During his 10 days in Africa, the Pope focused mainly on three themes at the heart of his papacy: combating poverty, environmental degradation and political corruption. https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/10/world/pope-francis-schism/index.html
I don't know anything about the German group that Father Mark Goring mentions in the above video, Zentralkomitee der deutschen Katholiken. Although Father Mark states that Pope Francis has stated that the German church should not be following what ZDK suggests, we know that the pope has not distanced himself from the likes of Cardinal Marx. "The suggestions are only slightly more direct than those of Cardinal Reinhard Marx, the President of the Bishops conference and one of Pope Francis’ Council of nine, who has advocated for altering the practice of the Church regarding Communion for divorced and remarried couples and questioned Church teaching on homosexuality." https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/a...ops-resisting-the-national-churchs-march-to-h The above article also provides some background on ZDK. Edited to add: I hate saying this but I think that we all can agree, well almost all of us, that Pope Francis is not afraid of schism because he sees the orthodox priests and laity as those standing in the way of his paradigm shift.
Whatever you do watch out for those rigid schismatic traditionalists. You know, the ones that aren't suffering from a vocation crisis and bring forth good fruits. https://twitter.com/EdwardPentin/status/1171700582308089857 http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edwa...mber-uses-amoris-to-justify-contraceptive-use https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/p...nvited-to-teach-at-new-john-paul-ii-institute Pro-contraception priest invited to teach at new John Paul II Institute in Rome catholic, contraception, john paul ii institute, maurizio chiodi ROME, July 30, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) — An Italian moral theologian who has argued that “responsible parenthood” can obligate a married couple to use artificial birth control has been invited to teach at the newly established John Paul II Institute in Rome, LifeSite has confirmed. Two informed sources in Rome told LifeSite that Fr. Maurizio Chiodi, a professor of moral theology at the Northern University of Milan and new member of the Pontifical Academy for Life, has been invited to teach at the new institute, but his official appointment is still pending. News regarding Fr. Chiodi’s potential teaching post at the restyled JPII institute comes in the wake of last week’s “purge” of orthodox professors and respected leaders, including the successor of Cardinal Carlo Caffarra and chair of fundamental moral theology, Msgr. Livio Melina, and the chair of special moral theology, Fr. José Noriega. The suspension of all professors and dismissal of Msgr. Melina and Fr. Noriega followed the approval of new statutes crafted under the direction of institute chancellor, Archbishop Vincenzo Paglia. These were in response to Pope Francis’s 2017 decree replacing the institute founded by Pope John Paul II with a new institute to carry forward the teaching of Amoris Laetitia. According to recent reports in Italian media, Fr. Chiodi is seen as a “favorite” for guiding the direction of moral theology at the new institute. He is described as a “disciple” of Cardinal Caffarra’s “old adversary,” German priest Bernard Haering, “the most in vogue moral theologian among progressives after Vatican II.” Heterodox on Humanae Vitae In 2018, at a public lecture held at the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome, Fr. Chiodi said that there are “circumstances — I refer to Amoris Laetitia, Chapter 8 — that precisely for the sake of responsibility, require contraception.” When “natural methods are impossible or unfeasible, other forms of responsibility need to be found,” argued Fr. Chiodi in his lecture, entitled Re-reading Humanae Vitae (1968) in light of Amoris Laetitia (2016). In such circumstances, Chiodi said, “an artificial method for the regulation of births could be recognized as an act of responsibility that is carried out, not in order to radically reject the gift of a child, but because in those situations responsibility calls the couple and the family to other forms of welcome and hospitality.” Fr. Chiodi’s comments came as the Church marked the 50th anniversary of Pope Paul VI’s encyclical Humanae Vitae, which reaffirmed the Church’s ban on contraception. In his encyclical, Paul VI called artificial contraception “intrinsically wrong,” approved natural family planning, and upheld the Church’s teaching on conjugal love and responsible parenthood. The lecture took place after Pope Francis purged the Pontifical Academy for Life, filling it with new appointees (including Fr. Chiodi), some with dissenting views on Humanae Vitae. Continued at the link.
So for a schism to actually take place doesn't there need to be an actual visible group of united Bishops who are willing to split from the body of the church? Who and where exactly is this group? Essentially, all this really is is labeling the opponent of modernism.
Don, Imho this is unlike any schism of the past. The group that is in the minority (the orthodox Catholics) are those who are likely to remain obedient to the pope. So, there probably will not be any official schism and I am sure that Pope Francis realizes this. Hopefully, there will be, in fact, a divine intervention to correct this horrible situation that we (the Church and the world) are in.
Exactly. Maybe the current Pope would like that group to exist so he could demonize them further and get rid of them, but such group does not exist, at least as far as I can tell. Has anyone ever heard Cardinals Sarah, or Burke or Brandmuller or any other relevant critic of this papacy speak in favor of a schism?
How can one even begin to reason with someone who dismisses many who disagree with him as having 'psychological problems'? Come to think of it, were there not reports that Pope Francis himself has a personal history of such problems?
Yep, you deny global warming you should see a shrink. Likewise if you think abortion is a big issue, or if you believe that hell is real and there are actually souls there. Actually, 99% of the folks who post here should also see a shrink. That would sort things out.
But, hey, the pope´s recent trip to Africa was a big success and he holds "rock star status" there, according to the BBC, so I guess, yes, he´s right, maybe we´re the crazy dudes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-49646179
