I'm posting a prayer in this thread hope it is helpful to everyone Prayer Of St Francis O Lord make me an instrument of your peace Where there is hatred, let me sow love; Where there is injury, let me sow pardon; Where there is doubt, let me sow faith; Where there is despair, let me show hope; Where there is darkness, let me show light; Where there is sadness, let me sow joy. O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much Seek to be consoled, as to console; Seek to be understood, as to understand; Seek to be loved, as to love . For it is in giving that we receive, It is in pardoning that we are pardoned, It is in dying that we are born to eternal life Amen
Thank you Jayne for the above prayer. May I humbly pray them with love in my heart and on my lips. Ora & Labora Shepard
Padraig I like and admire your honesty . And very few of us are immune to gossiping I don't know if I'm wrong you don't strike me as the type to indulge in the hurtful, spiteful type of gossip none of us are perfect you acknowledge your fault but at least you are trying to Rectify it
Thanks heyshepherd I'm going to say the prayer as well tonight I'm back to work tomorrow and it is not a nice place to work
I am sorry Jane, Jose, and others, that you are having a hard time accepting Medjugorje as potentially a true apparition. Jose – I would caution you on ignoring the good fruits of Medjugorje. The fruits are more than just conversions, …the fruits are also millions of more people praying, millions more going to confession, fasting…or at least trying to fast, Eucharistic adoration, people truly changing their lives, people trying to remove sin from their lives…all inspired by the words of Our Lady at Medjugorje. These are the good fruits of Medjugorje and I could keep going on about the good fruits of Medjugorje. A fruit of Islam may be conversions, but is it good fruit or bad fruit? As Carmel has already stated, Jesus said by their fruits you will know them, so I don’t recommend you ignore the good fruits. Jane – I would caution you on injecting your own personal beliefs on what an apparition “should” be in order to be authentic. What I mean by this is your concern over the rosary not being mentioned recently (although I believe Garabandal has refuted this), divine mercy, prayer to St. Michael, etc., all not being mentioned. In your opinion, these should be mentioned or stressed. Who are we to define what prayers should be stressed at an apparition site? Medjugorje stresses the 5 stones of conversion: rosary, confession, mass, the Bible, and fasting. That has always been the focus, and these are the foundations of our faith. I believe that God, with all his wisdom and knowledge, has decided that those 5 stones be the foundation of Medjugorje, and who are we to question that? We can’t let our personal opinions of missing prayers or devotions cloud out the foundational building blocks stressed at Medjugorje. If I were you (Jose or Jane), I would put Medjugorje in your rear view mirror and focus on your conversion until the Medjugorje commission comes out with it’s findings. That should be soon. In the meantime, those that believe in Medjugorje will focus on the 5 stones. I believe we could debate this until we are blue in the face, because I don’t think those on this thread opposing Medjugorje truly, truly have open hearts about Medjugorje being true. That is just my opinion based on reading the posts. If your heart is already hardened toward Medjugorje (which I believe it is), then only God can reach you and not anyone on this forum. So I recommend reaching out to God on this while waiting for the commission results.
I am absolutely open minded. But I have to be convinced with more than the testimony of somebody and the fact that people are converting. Nobody explained to me the story I asked padraig about the secret ink and the mysterious papirus... And the ten secrets writen and why some secrets are given to some seers and some other to others and the inmense amount of messages apparently given by the Virgin. And that She is appearing to some of them every single day!! Does all this make any sense? I think you are right, we can discuss as long as we like and we will not convice each other. I think the best thing is just wait and see what happens. If we do not see any of the secrets revealed, if the warning is not comming.... then somebody will have to think again what was wrong and I hope the Church has not made a serious mistake by then. Let's pray that our shepherds take us on the right path. Regards, Jose
I missed the question about the secret ink. It must have been a secret. If the Church rules against Medugorje I would be perfectly happy to walk away from it and forget about it. I do not own Medugorje and it does not own me.
With regard to the Rosary: The Rosary was mentioned more frequently in the early days of the apparitions - in the message below of 1986 our Lady not only does it mentions the Rosary three times - it made the praying of the Rosary an obligation for those wishing to convert. She called on families to pray the Rosary and the people of Medjugorje to pray the Rosary. Time and time she asked for the praying of the Rosary in private and in public in Medjugorje and the people responded. Before and after the apparitions the Rosary is recited so it is a bed-rock of prayer in Medjugorje. June 12, 1986 "Dear children, today I call you to begin to pray the Rosary with a living faith. That way I will be able to help you. You, dear children, wish to obtain graces, but you are not praying. I am not able to help you because you do not want to get started. Dear children, I am calling you to pray the Rosary and that your Rosary be an obligation which you shall fulfill with joy. That way you shall understand the reason I am with you this long. I desire to teach you to pray. Thank you for having responded to my call." I believe that Medjugorje is our Lady’s school of prayer – as the people responded and pray the Rosary this was a given – and our Lady continued to teach about prayer; contemplative prayer and more deeper gifts of prayer. The call to contemplative prayer has led to deeper conversions since this is a higher form of prayer that leads to union with God. Padraig has taught extensively on this type of prayer on this forum. Our Lady has also taught that that the highest form of prayer is the Mass and that we are to live the Mass. Here is a message that mentions to pray the Rosary [after 1997] April 25, 2001 "Dear children! Also today, I call you to prayer. Little children, prayer works miracles. When you are tired and sick and you do not know the meaning of your life, take the Rosary and pray; pray until prayer becomes for you a joyful meeting with your Savior. I am with you, little children, and I intercede and pray for you. Thank you for having responded to my call." I am not trying to convince anyone by this only to say that I have tried to live the messages of Medjugorje by contemplating them and absorbing them and then living them. “…little children, read everyday the messages I gave you and transform them into life…”When I read the above messages I hear the voice of a Mother. Here's my take & it is my humble opinion only. These are serious times - we are told that satan has been given a century of power therefore it stands to reason that our Lady has been given a special role in these times since it is she who has the role of crushing his head. I have mentioned before that we are in the Marian Age of the Church beginning in the 1830s - Miraculous Medal, Lourdes, Fatima, Garabandal, Akita, Rwanda, Medjugorje [my opinion]. All a continuous thread and coming to a culmination with the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary [crushing of satan]. Our Lady has said at Medjugorje that the first secret will break the power of satan in the world. The secrets foretold to the world will be proof indeed that the messages were authentic and our lady was appearing in Medjugorje. Should the secrets be announced and nothing happens then naturally false apparition. The ten secrets concern warnings and punishments for an unbelieving world. We live in Biblical times and therefore we live the Book of Revelations. Ten has a symbolic meaning since there has been no other time when the ten commandments of God have been trampled on as in this generation. But also in the Old Testament the ten plagues on Egypt were announced in advance to the Egyptian Pharaoh and the Egyptian people as a punishment for sin and unbelief. So Medjugorje will not be the first time that 10 secrets will have been announced to an unbelieving world. Just as Moses led the people of Israel to freedom so Our Lady, Queen of peace is leading us into a new Springtime for the Church and an era of Peace will be eventually granted to the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagues_of_Egypt The completion of the ten secrets will usher in the the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary and the era of peace promised at Fatima. Then there will be no need for Marian apparitions again. Mary has been sent like an Old Testament prophet to this generation to call mankind to repentance and conversion in this period of grace & Mercy before the Chastisements and Judgement of God. The coming judgement of God the Father makes me quake in my boots at the thought of the hand of God being wrought upon this generation [that includes my sons]. God is serious about the salvation of souls since the precious Blood of the Lamb was shed for our redemption and God will not be mocked by any generation and this is an atheistic civilization collapsing in on itself due to excess greed, hedonism, materialism and egoism. The sins of this generation cry to heaven. We who are immersed in this atheistic culture are sometimes blinded to the spiritual darkness of this era. That is why our Lady said to 'Look all around at the signs of the times'. We are in the midst of a culture of death and anti-Christ like never before. It is when we realise that we are living in Biblical times that we come to understand that God would never abandon His children to the darkness. Just as Noah built the Ark before the purification by water then God has given us the Immaculate Heart as a refuge before the purification by Fire. Since the darkness is so profound and so many souls perish God has sent the Mother as the last bastion of salvation calling mankind to repentance like Jonah to the city of Nineveh. June 26, 1981: “I have come because there are many true believers here. I wish to be with you to convert and to reconcile the whole world.” February 25, 1996:“Dear children! Today I invite you to conversion. This is the most important message that I have given you her April 4, 1985, “I wish to keep on giving you messages as it has never been in history from the beginning of the world.” May 2, 1982, “I have come to call the world to conversion for the last time. Afterwards I will not appear any more on this earth. I am sorry for posting so long. Apologies. For those who do not see Medjugorje is a positive light on this forum I respect you and your perspective as brothers and sisters in Christ. I remains forever submissive to the one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Faith and to the Holy Father Pope Benedict.
. This morning before I went to Mass I read the above threads. GARABANDAL quoted earlier Matthew 7:5 "First take the plank out of your own eye, then you can see clearly to remove the speck in your brother's eye." This statement was removed by the time I returned from Mass. So during Mass this morning I was humbled. I remindered myself that I am "nothing". Maybe I have planks in my eyes that might take a major operation to have removed. But if you can see clearer than me, why couldn't you help me? All you did was quote messages. I have read the messages, I have admitted they are good. But they aren't my worries. Potato Sack, I wasn't "injecting my own personal beliefs". I have legitimate concerns (read page 5) There is a difference! Mary's Child was the only one to admit she can't answer about Satan not being able to disguise his feet. I felt at least she tried to listen. Only Aviso commented on Satan not being able to disguise his feet, so I'm left to believe it's probably true. Which I understand doesn't mean Medjugorje isn't authentic. I had explained it was only this year that I change my mind regarding the authenticity of Medjugorje. I'm not 100% convinced either way. So when Potato Sack says "my heart is already hardened to Medjugorje". You were so wrong! If only I had replys like...." hmmm, yes that doesn't seem quite right, I see why you would be concerned" Rain was the only one to share concerns about the video where apparently Mary was dropping baby Jesus. Doesn't alarm bells ring here? Be honest! Anyway, today I again offered you all up at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass asking that you and I will follow the 'true light'. God Bless you all!
I have said I believe in Garabandal. I opened it up for conversation. I invited Chrissie who stongly has reservations on Garabandal to talk about it. She never accepted. I believe if all is good there is no need to fear or feel as if you want someone to shut up. I am confused regarding '3 Pope" but I tried to explain the best I can in what this could have meant. It didn't mean my explaination was right or wrong, it was my way of just trying to make some sense from it. I am not a Saintly person. I may be blinded to so many things. Maybe my ears have been blocked too. I don't know. I haven't got the best of hearts, I know that. At times I have hate in my heart in which I am trying to deal with. I find it so hard to forgive those who did wrong to me. I am aware of what I am. But I am tying my best to 'fix myself'. So I am many things. But I really believe I am a fair person. I open my hard heart and mind to listen to other points of view. As humans we tend to think our way is the right way. But we can't all be right.
I think, as someone else mentioned here on this thread sometimes its difficult to discern an apparition site properly because a lot of the information coming from places like Medugorje is apocrphal and when you try to chase it down it turns out to be simply false. A few years ago there was definite message circulating (and still is) that one of the visionaries had asked Mary a question about who was the holiest person in the village. Mary is supposed to have indicated a Muslim woman. Well this question and answer was something of an eye opener for me so I went away and prayed about it for quite a long time. But the more I considered this matter the more troubled I became by it. For why would anyone want to know who the holist person in their twon was/ ...And why would Mary answer? ...And if she did answer coudl she really have indicated a Muslim woman? So Ichased down this reference and it turned out to be untrue. I haven't the time or inclination to chase down all abverse references to Medugorje but if anyone has problems about a particular reference I would advise them to chase these tories down, often they are like mist and dissapear in your hands.
Now concerning the dropping bay Jesus thing. I think the Francsiscans were very, very ill advised in inviting in French scientists to, 'Prove' the apparitions were true. True Catholic Mystical phenomena are mere expressions of love and love cannot be put in test tube or guaged by electrical equipment. Thes epehnomena , like a hug or a kiss from God are beyond human instruments. We cannot nail love down, hence the misunderstaning and confusion. Love is only ever understood by love itself, by loving. Here is the wisdom of the ages, beyond the wisdom of men that only love can fathom the mystery of love.
Jane - I did use this quote but it was not about you. I respect you and everyone on the forum as friends in Christ. I used the quote concerning the priest who passed off information on the internet about Ivan 'eating an ice-cream on a Friday'. I suspect he should have greater concerns than to spread such gossip. This is the exact same scenario that Jesus encountered when the Pharisees attacked Jesus and his disciples for eating grain on the Sabbath, which was forbidden under the law and yet Jesus condemned the Pharisees and not his disciples. Matthew 12 v1. At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”
Dear Jane, You are so honest and, yes, open minded. You want to know more and this is absolute legitimate. You are a good Catholic but you have doubts about some apparitions. Well, me too. I try to live a Christian life. I have a family and I also try to teach my children how to do it. But I have also doubts. I could say I am an “agnostic” in all things regarding apparitions, possessions and miracles. Why? Probably because I am a scientist and for a scientist, although we cannot test God in an assay tube” we can do whatever is required to verify that the so claimed “supernatural phenomena” are actually true and not simply charlatanry. And this independently what the Church (their representatives) says about all this (because this is not the core of our believe and we do not need it for our salvation) Here we really can use our “assay tubes”. I tell you an example of what I mean. In the last years I was becoming interested in possessions, simply because of the fact that if we could show undoubtedly that somebody can levitate, speak foreign languages without learning, vomit nails, know the unknown and so on (as stated by some exorcists), we should be able to verify this and, what it is more important, to accept without any doubts that there is an spiritual word (no for me because I have faith and already believe, but I mean from a theoretical point of view). I contacted a very well-known exorcist from Spain asking why the Church is not open to a serious investigation about these phenomena. The answer was very disappointing. He told me that we cannot risk the identity of this people to be known and that he did not want to satisfy curiosity. In the mean time, he has been going from TV to TV studios participating in debates where the same thing is always coming out: “this is what you say but... can you prove it?” Regarding miracles and apparitions I think in the same way. Why the miracles are not such that NOBODY could doubt that they were really miracles? Why the apparitions are not such that NOBODY could doubt that they are true? I think apparitions belong to the private sphere of a person and there is no way that they can be proved. In some of them there are promises of proves, for instance, with the warning or in Medjugorje with the secrets that will prove the apparitions true. But until now, I have not seen anything in this sense. I know some people in this forum might have felt offended about what I said in the last days. It might look as if I wouldn’t respect what they believe. It is not like this and sorry if I provoked this, it might be also a problem with my English but, as far as I know, everybody can think whatever they want but without imposing this to the others. The only way to convince people is with the strength of demonstrative argumentation or presenting proves of such an extraordinary events. Carls Sagan said: “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” and I think the same way here. This post was long enough and I won’t disturb you any more with this. I found great to have the opportunity of explaining what I think regarding this matter. Have a nice weekend, Jose
The Church often takes a long time to decide upon the authenticity of apparitions. We still await a definitive decision re. Garabandal for example. But there is wisdom in this since should the Warning & Miracle occur then no one will doubt that our Lady appeared there. Likewise Medjugorje - should the secrets be announced and come to pass then no one will doubt. The Catholic faith is a faith of the heart and the mind. Intellectually, we can use reason and faith to support what we believe. But it takes a deeper conversion to see from the heart and to see with the eyes of faith. http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/
I haven't a clue about 'dropping the baby' I had never known this before. But, I don't have a problem with a Muslim woman being the holiest woman. We all love the same creator, God looks at the heart. This woman could have been the holiest woman there in the fact that she has deep respect for God her creator, loved those around her, prayed from the heart and did her best to live a good life. That is true holiness. There is only one creator, so in effect we all pray to the same Creator, it is the Messiah that we don't agree on. Of course we all know it is Christ, a lot of jews are coming to recognize Jesus as The Messiah too. They are called Jews for Jesus and remain in their own culture and Judaism which incidentally, is very similar to the Roman Catholic Mass in how they do things. If you remember Abraham had two sons, one Sarah gave him permission to conceive by their servant girl as Sarah at that time was barren. The servant girl had a son named Esau. However, when Sarah gave birth to her own son, she was very envious of Esau and didn't even want him to share in Issac's inheritance so she did everything in her power to drive this woman away, even getting Abraham to do the same (those pesky women of the old testament!) Read Genesis, it is a very interesting read. Hagar (the servant girl) left with her baby, Abraham gave them some water etc for the journey, but they ran out of water and Hagar then left her baby under a tree as she couldn't bare to watch him die. An angel appeared and told her that Esau would be made into a great nation. This is in fact where the Muslim faith grew from many years later. That is definitely NOT to say that I think it is the right one. Genesis is actually a great read. We also need to remember that God judges on the heart and how much a person loves. This is the true measure of holiness. Prayer helps us to commune with God to see His love and to learn how to love as He wishes. For the good of others and not selfish gain. As is so often the case - we love those who love us. Sorry, I have gone on. Do I think that the Muslim faith is right. No I don't. Do I think that Roman Catholics are better than anybody else? Absolutely not. Not one of us is perfect, and there has been a lot of wrong doing throughout the centuries. But what I do know is that God the Father has been revealed to us through Jesus Christ his son, which puts us in a better position than anybody else, but with this comes great responsibility, we will be judged far more than others as we know the Truth and received the sacraments and The Mass in order to give us the best possible chance to grow. We were also given knowledge of The Holy Spirit and how He helps us and how God lives within in order to let us know that we are never alone, and any growth and prayer is not by our own volition by but the Holy Spirit who prays within us and causes us to cry out, "Abba, Father."
Thankyou all for your reply. I had watched this video. It does make me think good of Medjugorje. But then I think of all the other things. I think I will sit on the fence of caution on this one. I don't think we will ever get a Church approval or not. I think the horrible changes in the world and church will prevent any decision on Medjugorje. Please everyone, just incase my gut feeling is right. If the church falls, and everyone turns to Medjugorje for help. Just remember it could be the prophet that Jesus talked about. I know I could be wrong. To tell you the truth, I would prefer to be wrong. I hope we are all done on the True/False prophecies of Medjugorje. I'm tired. I have a wonderful person to talk about soon. As my day is finishing, yours is beginning, so have a lovely day!
Absolutely, will remain faithful to my pope and his teachings... unless of course he is ousted out an another put in his place by the one world religion etc (satan itself) In which case, i will hold on fast to my Church teachings and to my good pope.. You are right we do need to be very careful, it will come into this world speaking of love and peace and creating many miracles so that the people will believe, whilst creating a one world religion. Many will believe him to be the messiah. Thankfully, this isn't happening in Medjugorje as we all know that they are not the messiah, and if they introduced one I would run for the hills... The invisable ink thing Padraig is one of the secrets that are going to be announced, anyone who tries to read it beforehand won't be able to see it ... I can actually believe this.. God parted the red sea, also Peter escaped from prison when the door opened and he walked right past the guards unchallenged (Acts of the Apostles) as they simply didn't see him. He actually thought that he must be dreaming, but when he got to the city he realized that it was actually happening. He must of been hidden (invisible) for the guards not to see him. Many films get their ideas from scripture in the first place. Even horrors... Sorry, I am happy to stop talking about this now, I just really enjoy discussions like this, and I find all this very interesting. Some 'seers' admittedly I switch off from straight away.. You are not wrong in standing back from Medjugorje and waiting to hear what the Church declares. This is commendable,(remaining in complete obedience to the Church, you are well protected). All those who live the messages are also commendable. I am very interested in your next topic.. You have a lovely day too, I am now running out to Mass, hard to tear myself from this forum this past few days..
Jose I for one am not the least offended by scientific scepticism. The Church in prayers on the Feast of St Thomas th Apostle (who asked to put his fingers in the wounds of Christ) that it was a , 'Felix culpa' (happy fault) because through Thomas's doubt we are all confirmed in our own Faith. So continue to ask questions Why not? I ask them myself all the time. But do not surprised if you cannot nail things down. We walk by faith..and at the end of the day..by faith alone.
