Pope tells gay man: 'God made you like this'

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by BrianK, May 21, 2018.

  1. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Yet, I am reminded that Jesus weeped bitterly at the feet of Judas when he washed them at the last supper. He had hope and continued praying for him to the end. Jesus shows us this is his will and perhaps the only hope poor sinners have is our recourse via prayers for those who are lost.
     
  2. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Perhaps the most chilling words on Judas from Scripture are, 'Satan entered into him'. I believe Satan has certainly entered the Vatican and boy is he having a ball.
     
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  3. sunburst

    sunburst Powers

    That certainly appears to be so!


    That sounds a lot like what we have here in the United States politics, those trying to work out the agenda while remaining hidden.


    But why is it that the Holy Father has to leave everyone hanging with no clarification? It may not change Catholic doctrine but it seems as though the impression is there, so anyone leaning in that direction may have the justification they are seeking


    I agree Pope Francis was put on the spot for that one and the most compassionate answer wisely given in charity while always instructing that one should pray for the dead


    Is it those who are fortunate enough to meet in private conversation with the Holy Father to have the responsibility not to relay how they have been instructed/inspired by Pope Francis? Is it they or Pope Francis himself being put in a difficult situation?
    Jesus was often referred to as teacher and Pope Francis being the top teacher should be solid in the Catholic faith likewise in private or open conversation

    Sorry Brian for the form in which this was presented as this is just in reference to the article you posted.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
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  4. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    WOW!!! Michael Voris takes on this pope and his homoheresy with courage and conviction. Finally!
     
  5. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Yes finally off the fence, finally.

    I think he must have checked with his Spiritual Director first. He uses his words carefully. In talking of Pope Francis critically he always says, 'Bergoglio'. I am not quite sure if this makes any difference but I suppose this is what his Director advised him.

    It's a sign how bad things have got when Voris has come off the fence.
     
  6. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Padraig, This video is very good, imho, thank you for posting it.

    My hope is that the cleanup in the Church has truly begun. It was reported that Pope Francis was brought to tears during his meeting with Juan Carlos Cruz. We have read the bad press that has resulted from the Pope's alleged comments to Mr. Cruz but if the Pope truly wants to help Mr. Cruz and help to prevent future incidences of clergy sexual abuse, Pope Francis needs to begin a massive cleanup in the Church otherwise the Pope's tears have little meaning imho. I suppose this is my way of trying to remain positive. Maybe things needed to get so bad, for most of us, unimaginably bad before they could get better.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
  7. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Well Catholic Prophecy, I am afraid indicates things are about to get much, much, much worse. So bad indeed that ordinary Catholics will find it hard to get to mass.

    I am particularly thinking of Catherine Emmerich here. This appears to suggest we are going to have even worse Popes than Francis coming our way.

    I am sorry, I know this is depressing.

     
  8. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    This is encouraging news, IF this pope really means it, and IF it’s not just more spin and damage control.

    His words that caused the articles in this thread speak more loudly on the world stage, by orders of magnitude, and remain uncorrected, than any private remarks to a bishops’ conference of which only Fr. Z and his little Remnant of readers take note.

    Watch what he does and who he promotes, not what he says after he realizes he far overstepped his audience with his recent remarks.
     
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  9. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

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  10. carpediemptf

    carpediemptf BeStillandPray


    You are absolutely right!!!

    We are clearly dealing with the diabolical infiltration within the Church and also with the many "Judases" within the clergy that have chosen to follow the diabolical rather than remain faithful and sadly the signs show us that this is rampant within the hierarchy and we have an obligation to warn the faithful and stand up and speak out (when prompted by the Holy Spirit and after much effort of discernment in humility).

    The answer I believe the Holy Spirit has often given me and reminded me of is that I personally need to focus more on prayer and be willing to spend more time in penance and suffering with Jesus on the Cross. I keep finding myself getting caught up in righteous anger about what is rapidly happening before our eyes and find myself spending too much time on it rather than praying more and I believe I am not alone in this.

    My new goal (and one that I am sharing in hopes that maybe it will inspire others to do the same) is to immediately pray at least 1 Hail Mary right away whenever I see one of our leaders saying or doing something I believe is diabolical in orientation (saying a prayer for those involved). Our prayers have profound effect and we need to believe this.

    I love this site and the fact that it gives us an outlet to share and help one another in our journey of faithfulness and I am very grateful to you Padraig for this.
     
  11. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    I have felt for a long time that the homo-heresy will be the vehicle through which secular society will bully and persecute Christians who hold to the tradition that marriage is only between a man and a woman & indeed that marital relations are the only means through which we can participate in His created order.

    The fact that this heresy has entered the Church is not surprising since many people are more influenced by secular thinking than by the values of the Gospel.

    Soon we here will be a minority within a minority -- easy prey for the powerful forces of satans minions --

    Indeed politics is so corrupted by evil that the whole political order has been plunged into a great darkness --

    Unbelievers run the world --
     
  12. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

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  13. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

  14. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Teachers forced to attend 'LGGBDTTTIQQAAPP' training session

     
  15. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    http://theweek.com/articles/774517/pope-francis-cunning-long-game

    Pope Francis' cunning long game



    Damon Linker


    Illustrated | ANDREAS SOLARO/AFP/Getty Images

    May 23, 2018


    Pope Francis' stealth reform of the Roman Catholic Church shows no sign of slowing down — and may even be accelerating.

    Stealth is key here. If the pope had declared earlier this month that henceforth the Roman Catholic Church would authoritatively teach that homosexuals should be happy being gay, that God made them homosexual, and that God himself (along with the pope) loves them just the way they are, it would have been a massive story in the history of Catholicism — and one that quite likely would have precipitated a major schism, with conservative bishops and priests (mainly in North America and Africa) formally breaking from Rome.


    But because word of the pope saying these things comes to us second hand, in a report of a private conversation between Francis and a gay man named Juan Carlos Cruz who is also a victim of the clerical sex abuse crisis in Chile, the utterance will go down as just the latest example of the pope making unorthodox statements in settings in which he has plausible deniability and in which he can claim he was speaking as a pastor rather than as an expositor of the church's official dogmas and doctrines.


    Most popes view themselves as caretakers of the church's authoritative teachings on faith and morals. When it comes to homosexuality, they would therefore be inclined to reaffirm the position laid out in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which clearly states that homosexual desires are "intrinsically disordered" because they are not oriented to the end of procreation. (The same is true of masturbation and other non-procreative sex acts.)


    If Pope Francis were a straightforward reformer, he would seek to change church doctrine regardless of the potentially dire consequences for church unity. But Francis is well aware of the limits of his power and the danger of pushing too far too fast. So he has set out on a different, and distinctive, path.


    We first saw it early in his pontificate when the pope spoke to reporters about his views on homosexuality. In contrast to Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI), who declared in a 1986 letter to the bishops of the church that same-sex desires aim toward an "intrinsic moral evil," Francis told the press that "if someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?"

    It continued in September 2014 with a marriage ceremony over which Francis presided at St Peter's. Some of the 20 couples involved had been previously married, while others had given birth to children out of wedlock or lived with their fiancées before marriage. That prior behavior placed them firmly out of step with the requirements of Catholic doctrine, and yet the pope participated and blessed the marriages.


    And on it has gone, through the notorious footnote in the apostolic exhortation that was published at the conclusion of the 2015 Synod on the Family, seeming to give priests the pastoral leeway to offer the sacrament of communion to parishioners who have been divorced and remarried without receiving an annulment of their first marriages. It has made headlines most recently when an elderly Italian journalist asserted that in an interview with Francis the pope had denied the dogma of hell.


    And now there is Francis' apparent elaboration of his latitudinarian beliefs about homosexuality.


    What unites all of these examples is a distinctive approach to church dogma and doctrine. Instead of acting as an expositor of these core teachings of the church, the pope selectively diverges from them in his actions and statements without deigning to change the teachings themselves. The implicit message is the same in every case: The pope himself thinks it's possible to be a member of the church in good standing while failing to abide by all of the institution's rules.


    This is significantly different than the pope acknowledging that everyone is a sinner and will therefore break the rules from time to time. That standard view presumes that the divergence from the rule is a failing that requires repentance and reconciliation (the sacrament of confession), along with the intention on the part of the sinner to do better next time. Francis' position is different — implying that the lack of conformity to church teaching is acceptable, requiring no change or improvement in behavior.


    Juan Carlos Cruz is gay, that's how God made him, and there's nothing wrong with that.


    But of course church teaching contradicts this. Which puts Pope Francis in the position of effectively promulgating two truths — implicitly affirming the official, harsher doctrine while subtly undermining it with a less stringent pastoral teaching. Instead of seeking to change the underlying rules, which would risk divisiveness and even schism, he shows that it's perfectly alright for a priest or layperson to diverge from or ignore the rule in the name of welcoming as many people as possible to Christ's church.


    Conservative Catholics like Ross Douthat (the author of a new book on this very topic) worry that Francis' fudging of doctrinal truth will have bad consequences for the church because it simply defers a necessary debate about what the church actually believes. Better to have the argument sooner rather than later.


    But I think the pope's strategy for a longer game displays greater psychological acuity — and Machiavellian cunning. Francis may be betting that once the church stops preaching those doctrines that conflict most severely with modern moral norms, the number of people who uphold and revere them will decline rapidly (within a generation or two). Once that has happened, officially changing the doctrine will be much easier and much less likely to provoke a schism (or at least a major one) than it is in the present.



    That's the great advantage of pursuing a strategy of stealth reform: The seed planted now with a minimum of conflict bears fruits in the future with even less.


    It's never been more obvious that this is precisely what Pope Francis has in mind.
     
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  16. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Sometimes I wonder does he mistakenly equate doctrine with the law of the Old Testament?

    Correct doctrinal understanding is essential for unity in the Church, proper worship of God and a Trinitarian understanding of God and the Incarnation.

    Just look at the chaos within Protestantism over incorrect doctrine!!!
     
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  17. carpediemptf

    carpediemptf BeStillandPray

    It definitely is the vehicle!

    One thing to also remember is that this vehicle would never have had gas at all if the door of the sexual revolution in the 60's and 70's hadn't taken place. This sexual revolution resulted in rampant divorces and in turn we now have so many young people living together without being married. The goal - the one that the Devil worked very hard to accomplish and knows will separate souls from God the easiest - is the breakdown of marriage and the family unit which is the natural language that God created to be a powerful Sign of God's own Nature and was meant to teach us about the interior life of the Trinity (a man and a woman become one flesh and bare fruit = child speaks to us about the Father's love for the Son and the Son's love for the Father and this perfect reciprocal Love is the Holy Spirit).

    The promoting of Homosexuality is one of the last stages leading to the total break down of people understanding the difference between the nature of a man and a woman and their purpose (e.g. the acceptance of gender fluidity which we are seeing now is the end step of this), It is simply the end game of the breakdown of the family unit.

    Think of our youth today and how the majority of them view sex as simply another form of self pleasure and is a casual thing with no moral significance and see how many young people now living together without being married. What makes it difficult to convince others that homosexual sex is wrong is that so many hedorosexual people are already in deep sin through sexual activity outside of marriage and don't think that this is a sin at all, let alone a grave mortal sin. When sexual intercourse is no longer defined/understood as a sacred act of self giving between a husband and a wife, then it is very hard to convince a person that homosexual sex is wrong.

    Also while this was happening you simultaneously had the infiltration of homosexual young men into the seminaries (e.g. look up the former communist Bella Dodd and her conversion and what she said the communists successfully did in our seminaries). This would have had no ability to take hold or last if the faithful were not already undergoing a rapid acceptance of sex outside of marriage. It is hard for us to fathom just how much of this was happening in the seminaries around the world in the 60's. 70's, and 80's (I witnessed it first hand when I was in the seminary for 6 years where good young men were mostly being turned away by those running the seminaries (the ones running the seminaries were some of the ones that infiltrated the Church) and weak men that could be molded in the wrong way were being encouraged to join).

    It "seems" hopeless to try and convince people to understand how destructive acceptance of homosexuality is. How hard it is to do this. As soon as we do, we are discredited and labeled as a bigot. It doesn't work to tell people it is wrong - they won't listen. One answer I have found works at least a little is to guide people to read about the writings of St. Pope John Paul II's on the Theology of the Body.

    The Theology of the Body is one of the greatest gifts the Holy Spirit has given to the Church and whenever possible we should share this with people.
     
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  18. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    A charge now beginning to be leveled by the perverts is that of 'biologism', equivalent to racism or sexism. In other words, to resort to scientific reality is equal to commiting a hate crime. The enemy is insane, but is in control, for now. I comfort myself with the likelihood that insanity presents as a poor long-term bet for running a society. However, the harm likely to be done seems incalculable. The nearest equivalent I can find as a comparison, off the top of my head, is the regime of Pol Pot. Although not (yet) nearly as bloody, the Venezuelan regime seems to come close.
     
  19. DivineMercy

    DivineMercy Archangels

    Bella Dodd’s testimony is a hard reality to face. I have a distant cousin who entered the seminary in the 70’s, only to come out several years later angry at the Church and railing about all the gays in the seminary. He almost immediately came out as homosexual and left the Church. One wonders what must have happened to him in the seminary
     
  20. AED

    AED Powers

    Yikes. Today I had to go to the MD and there is a new form you have to fill out identifying what gender you currently are identifying with!!!! I kid you not. And on the wall is a poster explains all the terms: cisgender, gender binary, pansexual(the mind quakes at that one) and so on. Insane! Utterly mad.
     

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