The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Whenever Pope Francis says or does something orthodox there's usually a sting in the tail. Protestants wouldn't be particularly miffed at Our Lady being referred to as the Mother of the Church. This wouldn't be nearly as offputting to them as the Immaculate Conception being an article of faith to be accepted by all believers. Don't be surprised to see the Vatican's welcome mat rolled out for sceptics/deniers of the Immaculate Conception. Oh, wait, I think that's happened already. This could be the balancing act for inter-Communion with Lutherans - the "look, the Pope is really Catholic" response to anyone who questions his discarding Catholicism in favour of false ecumenism.
     
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  2. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Equal opportunities excommunicaters?
     
  3. Mario

    Mario Powers

    This is why, down through history, the most powerful teachers in the church did not debate false teachers who were obstinate in their lies. They pronounced against them and left them to the judgement of God.

    3John 1:9
    I wrote something to the church; but Diotrephes, who loves to be first among them, does not accept what we say. 10 For this reason, if I come, I will call attention to his deeds which he does, unjustly accusing us with wicked words; and not satisfied with this, he himself does not receive the brethren, either, and he forbids those who desire to do so and puts them out of the church.

    2John 1:9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; 11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

    Jude 1:19 These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly -minded, devoid of the Spirit. 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life. 22 And have mercy on some, who are doubting; 23 save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.

    As these brief passages indicate, the first century church had to make the same difficult decisions we do. Let us always season our choices with love and humility even as we stand firm.:ROFLMAO::D As the Storm begins to rage more fiercely, it will be those close to the Eucharist and Mary who will persecuted all the more.:coffee:

    Safe Under Mary's Mantle!
     
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  4. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    Former Vatican bank chief indicted over €50 million embezzlement losses
    by Associated Press

    posted Monday, 5 Mar 2018
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    The trial of Angelo Caloia and his lawyer, Gabriele Liuzzo, begins March 15

    Vatican prosecutors have indicted the former president of the Vatican bank and his lawyer on embezzlement charges, holding them responsible for losses of more than 50 million euros ($62 million) from real estate sales.

    The trial of Angelo Caloia and his lawyer, Gabriele Liuzzo, begins March 15. A third suspect died while under investigation.

    The Institute for Religious Works said late Friday that Caloia and his lawyer were charged with alleged embezzlement and self-laundering between 2001 and 2008, when the bank disposed of “a considerable part of its real estate assets.”

    The scam allegedly involved the suspects selling Vatican-owned real estate at under value prices to offshore companies that then resold the buildings at market rates, with the suspects allegedly profiting from the difference, according to a person familiar with the investigation.

    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/new...ndicted-over-e50-million-embezzlement-losses/
     
  5. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Kasper on Amoris Laetitia: enough with the accusation of heresy, the faithful have understood
    Vatican News interviews the 85-years-old German cardinal, “Tradition is not a stagnant lake, but is like a spring, or a river: it is something alive”
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    Pubblicato il 05/03/2018
    ANDREA TORNIELLI
    VATICAN CITY

    “Tradition is not a stagnant lake, but is like a spring, or a river: it is something alive. The Church is a living organism and thus it always needs to validly translation the Catholic tradition into present situations. This is the meaning of the renewal about which Pope John XXIII spoke”. Cardinal Walter Kasper, who turned 85 years old yesterday, told Vatican News.

    The German cardinal has just gone public with his book “Amoris laetitia’s Message. A brotherly discussion” and in the interview withthe Vatican media agency , he states that the faithful have understood the message of the apostolic exhortation, and invites them to stop with the accusations of heresy. Kasper, in the first pages of his book, points out that Amoris laetitia is not a new doctrine, but is a creative renewal of traditional teaching about which Pope John XXIII spoke.

    Speaking of the debate sparked by the papal document, the Cardinal explains, “First of all I would like to say that debate in the Church is necessary. There is no need to fear debate! But there is a very bitter debate, way too strong, with accusations of heresy. A heresy is a tenacious disagreement with formal dogma. The doctrine of the indissolubility of marriage has not been called into question on Pope Francis’ part! Before saying that something is heresy, the question should be what the other person means by what has been said. And, above all, that the other person is Catholic should be presupposed, the opposite should not be supposed!”

    Regarding the famous “Note 351” of Amoris laetitia regarding the admission to the Sacraments of the divorced and remarried, Kasper affirms that it should be read in the light of the Decree of the Council of Trent on the Eucharist, “The Council of Trent says that in the case in which there is no grave sin, but venial, the Eucharist removes that sin. Sin is a complex term. It not only includes an objective principle, but there is also the intention, the person’s conscience. And this needs to be examined in the internal forum—in the Sacrament of Reconciliation—if there is truly a grave sin, or perhaps a venial sin, or perhaps nothing. If it is only a venial sin, the person can be absolved and admitted to the Sacrament of the Eucharist. This already corresponds with the doctrine of Pope John Paul II and, in this sense, Pope Francis is in complete continuity with the direction opened by preceding Popes. I do not see any reason, then, to say that this is a heresy”.

    The cardinal therefore points out how the faithful perceived the document, “I know a few parishes, also some here in Rome, who have meetings with spouses or with engaged couples preparing for matrimony and they read parts of the Apostolic Exhortation. This document’s language is so clear that any Christian can understand it. It is not high theology incomprehensible to people. The Pope of God are very content, and happy with this document because it gives space to freedom, but it also interprets the substance of the Christian message in an understandable language. So, the People of God understand! The Pope has an optimal connection with the People of God”.

    “Today we are living a violent time which has never before been experienced. Many people are wounded. Even in marriages there are many who are wounded. People need mercy, empathy, the sympathy of the Church in these difficult times in which we are living today. I think that mercy is the response to the signs of our times”.

    http://www.lastampa.it/2018/03/05/v...understood-Kz7L6NWcREmZ6Tn3MGb1oL/pagina.html
     
  6. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    Who said tradition was staganat? Tradition is the “democracy of the dead” but it seems for Kasper the dead count only in as much as they can support HIS own idea of what the Church should be. The Tradition of the Church has spoken clearly and with great dynamism and depth about this issue and will continue to do so, and His Eminence may very well continue to close his heart and understanding to it. And who is he to say what the faithful understand or not? He can know read into our minds? This manichaean language is vomitive, it speaks volumes...
    ...

    The "Dubia" Have One More Cardinal, Holland's Willem Jacobus Eijk

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    http://magister.blogautore.espresso...e-more-cardinal-hollands-willem-jacobus-eijk/

    Q: Your Eminence, what is your thought on the controversial question of access to the sacraments for divorced and remarried couples?

    A: The question of whether the so-called divorced and remarried can be allowed to receive sacramental absolution and therefore the Eucharist is cracking the Church apart. One encounters a debate, at times rather vehement, on all levels, among cardinals, bishops, priests, and laity. The source of the confusion is the postsynodal exhortation “Amoris Laetitia,” written by Pope Francis at the conclusion of the synods of the family of 2014 and 2105.

    This confusion concerns above all number 305 of the exhortation. One observes that some episcopal conferences have introduced pastoral rules that imply that the divorced and remarried may be admitted to communion under a series of conditions and after a period of pastoral discernment on the part of the priest who accompanies them. However, other episcopal conferences rule this out. But what is true in place A cannot be false in place B. These different interpretations of the exhortation, which concern doctrinal questions, are causing confusion among the faithful. So I would be happy if the pope would bring clarity in this regard, preferably in the form of some magisterial document.

    I myself, participating in both synods on the family, argued that one cannot allow the divorced who have remarried in a civil ceremony to receive communion. I also did so in an article about a book that contained contributions from eleven cardinals, published in the interval between the two synods.

    Q: Can you briefly explain what your position is?

    A: Jesus himself says that marriage is indissoluble. In the Gospel according to Matthew (19:9; cf. 5:32) he seems to admit an exception, meaning that one may repudiate one’s wife “in case of illegitimate union.” Nonetheless, the meaning of the Greek word, “porneia,” translated here as “illegitimate union,” is uncertain: it very probably means a union that is incestuous on account of a marriage between forbidden degrees of kinship (cf. Lev 18:6-18; Acts 15:18-28).

    The deeper argument is that one may not allow the divorced and remarried to receive communion on the basis of an analogy between the relationship between husband and wife and that between Christ and the Church (Eph 5:23-32). The relationship between Christ and the Church is a total mutual self-donation. The total donation of Christ to the Church is realized in the donation of his life on the cross. This total donation is made present in the sacrament of the Eucharist.

    Therefore, whoever takes part in the Eucharist must be ready to make a total gift of himself, which is part of the total donation of the Church to Christ. He who divorces and remarries in a civil ceremony, while the first marriage has not be declared null, violates the mutual total gift that this first marriage implies. Violating the total gift of the first marriage still to be considered as valid, and the absence of the will to abide by this total gift, makes the person involved unworthy of taking part in the Eucharist, which makes present the total donation of Christ to the Church. This does not change the fact, however, that the divorced and remarried may take part in the liturgical celebrations, including that of the Eucharist, without receiving communion, and that priests may accompany them pastorally.

    In the case in which the civilly divorced and remarried are not able to separate, for example because of their obligations toward the children who belong to both of them, they can be admitted to communion or to the sacrament of penance only by fulfilling the conditions mentioned in number 84 of “Familaris Consortio" and in number 29 of "Sacramentum Caritatis.” One of these conditions is that the must resolve to live as brother and sister, which means to stop having sexual relations.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
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  7. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    He is trying really hard to spread his merciful poison, but this is what John Paul II really said:

    3. As I wrote in the Apostolic Exhortation Familiaris consortio, the divorced and remarried cannot be admitted to Eucharistic Communion since “their state and condition of life objectively contradict that union of love between Christ and the Church which is signified and effected by the Eucharist” (n. 84). And this is by virtue of the very authority of the Lord, Shepherd of Shepherds, who always seeks his sheep. It is also true with regard to Penance, whose twofold yet single meaning of conversion and reconciliation is contradicted by the state of life of divorced and remarried couples who remain such.


    And here is the Magisterium’s rebuttal of the Kasper’s proposal explained by bishop Maria Eleganti from Switzerland:

    MH: How do you see the danger that Amoris Laetitia and its claim that a couple in an “irregular situation” does not necessarily need to be in the state of mortal sin may have as a consequence the watering down of the whole moral law? That is to say – as is now already being stated for example by Father Chiodi in Rome with reference to Amoris Laetitia – that the use of the pill or of other contraceptives might sometimes be, not only not sinful, but even necessary?

    BME: No one can dare to make a judgment about the state of grace, neither the pastor nor the concerned couples themselves. Saint Pope John Paul II has stated in this context that only the objective situation of the civilly remarried couples itself is decisive as to why they may not go to Holy Communion, unless they abstain from sexual marital acts. He also then stated that this is also about the clarity of the teaching and the coherence between the doctrine and the sacramental practice in the Faith. With it, however, no judgment was made concerning the state of grace of the concerned persons. It was a great mistake at the two Synods on the Family that this differentiation has not been made understandable, but, rather that priests and civilly remarried couples have been misled by asking them to make an assessment of the state of grace which, with the best will, they can not make at all. Instead of holding on to objectively assessable facts – as done in the heretofore teaching tradition and sacramental practice – such as the nullity of the first marriage (the only legitimate reason for the justification of a so-called second marriage) and the existence of absolute norms that forbid everywhere and always intrinsically evil acts such as adultery (independent of circumstances, good intentions, and mitigating circumstances), one has created, in the meantime, more confusion and chaos of interpretations, rather than clarity. After all, there is no such a thing as a right life in the wrong [das richtige Leben im Falschen]. With other words: when there exists a valid, indissoluble marriage bond, nothing – not even the much invoked well-being of the children of a second union – justifies the living together more uxorio in a second civil marriage, unless one abstains from the sexual acts that are only reserved for the sacramental marriage. That is the case because they are – just like the Holy Eucharist – a real symbol and in both cases (Christ-Church; Bridegroom-Bride respectively Husband-Wife) they represent and at the same time realize the indissoluble covenant. Otherwise, we would really have the pastorally accompanied divorce and remarriage which Jesus very clearly rejected. Chiodi represents obviously a situation ethics which has been rejected by the heretofore Magisterium of the popes.


    As Crdnl. Kasper says, yes the Tradition is indeed very a much ‘alive’, an unstoppable ‘river’ of truly New water that cleanses us from our clinging to compromise, lies, death, and sin disguised as compassion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
  8. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Kasper is a heretic. ‘Nuff said.
     
  9. picadillo

    picadillo Guest

    But hey, who am I to judge. Maybe he is the head of the St. Gallen's group.

    ITALIAN ARCHDIOCESE ROCKED BY SCANDAL: DRUGS, GAY PROSTITUTION, BLACKMAIL
    NEWS: WORLD NEWS
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    Juliana Freitag • ChurchMilitant.com • February 28, 2018 1129 Comments
    As many as 60 priests implicated
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    An Italian archdiocese is embroiled in scandal as reports are surfacing of a gay priest on trial for allegations of blackmail, embezzlement and other crimes.

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    Fr. Luca Morini
    Father Luca Morini, known to his flock as "Don Euro" for his extravagant lifestyle, has recently been scheduled for a hearing in the Court of Massa, the medieval town in Tuscany where he used to run two parishes. The preliminary hearing is set to take place on March 8, where the judge will examine the evidence for accusations of fraud, drug distribution, embezzlement, extortion and self-laundering.

    The case began when male escort, Francesco Mangiacapra, decided to go public about services he had been rendering to Fr. Morini, who falsely presented himself as a judge. When the escort found out that his prodigal client was a simple parish priest, he decided to inquire about the financial source for all the lavish dinners and expensive gifts. Mangiacapra suspected the money came from the faithful and decided to report Fr. Morini to the diocese of Massa Carrara-Pontremoli.

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    Escort Francesco Mangiacapra
    But the diocese only acted once it found out that national broadcast show Le Iene was after the priest, so the bishop suspended him from his activities "due to sickness" and then transferred him to a €200,000.00 house, bought especially for him (monthly utility bills and maid included). These were allegedly obtained from the bishop of Massa Carrara-Pontremoli, Giovanni Santucci, through blackmail, as Morini had "threatened to expose to the public eye unpleasant facts about many diocesan priests." Bishop Santucci also gave Don Euro €4,500,00 from his own personal bank account, as well as €1,000.00 from diocesan funds. The bishop is also currently under investigation.

    The episode aired by Le Iene shows footage of Fr. Morini snorting cocaine and parading in the company of several male escorts, as well as interviews with many of the parishioners, who testify that the priest was constantly pestering them for money, even during confessions.

    One of the priests interviewed by Le Iene declared that Morini "arrived to the point of blasphemy: He would choose a member of the faithful and tell them he had seen Padre Pio in the Host, and that Padre Pio had mentioned that person by name. ... He would then request thousands of euros from that person, promising that the offer guaranteed Padre Pio's protection."

    Another diocesan priest wrote an anonymous letter to the show's staff: "It hurts me to say that Fr. Morini has behaved this way for approximately 20 years, stealing and deceiving the elderly and those most in need, all seemingly under the protection of the powerful."

    Fr. Morini has behaved this way for approximately 20 years, stealing and deceiving the elderly and those most in need, all seemingly under the protection of the powerful.Tweet
    When the investigation was concluded last June, the police managed to trace to Fr. Morini €700,000 in cash and €150,000 in diamond investments. He was known in the best restaurants, resorts and five-star hotels in Rome and in Tuscany, and would always provide the drugs.

    "The cocaine was always Morini's," said Mangiacapra. "I'm an escort, I'm not a drug dealer."

    Last week Mangiacapra handed a 1,200-page dossier to the archdiocese of Naples with documents (including sexually explicit pictures) that prove the escort's involvement with 60 priests from all over Italy. Explaining his motivations to newspaper Corriere della Sera, Mangiacapra said, "The goal isn't to hurt the people I've mentioned [in the dossier], but to help them understand that their double life ... isn't useful to them or to the people who rely on them for guidance."

    He continued, "Their behavior is, in many cases, a result of the impunity that the high hierarchy of the Church has made habitual: that unjust tolerance that feeds the idea that it is possible to separate that which is lived from that which is professed, as typical of those who have a schizophrenic, double morality."

    Mangiacapra received an anonymous death threat in early January. The letter made references to his book Il numero uno: confessioni di un marchettaro,("Number One: Confessions of a Male Escort"), where he mentions many of his adventures with Italian priests (no names were disclosed in the book).

    "I am worried because the letter arrived at my home address, which is not public," the escort said. "I am reporting it to the police, because if others letters were to arrive, we can take action."

    The initial letter indicates more notes may be forthcoming: "Your popularity makes you very traceable, as you can see now, and will see again in the future."


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  10. picadillo

    picadillo Guest

    The vicar of Christ is right, there is no gay mafia in the church hierarchy:

    LEADING NORTHERN IRISH BISHOP STEPS DOWN AMID GAY SEX ABUSE SCANDAL
    NEWS: WORLD NEWS
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    Alexander Slavsky • ChurchMilitant.com • March 2, 2018 46 Comments
    Bp. John McAreavey of Dromore accused of doing little against abusive priest
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    DROMORE, County Down, Northern Ireland (ChurchMilitant.com) - A northern Irish bishop is resigning after backlash over his association with a sex-abusing priest.

    Bishop John McAreavey of Dromore in County Down announced Thursday he was stepping down as bishop: "Following media reports which have disturbed and upset many people in the diocese and further afield, I have decided to resign with immediate effect."

    "I shall make further comment in due course," said McAreavey.

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    Fr. Malachy Finnegan
    His resignation comes weeks after he regretted offering the funeral Mass in 2002 for Fr. Malachy Finnegan, accused of 12 claims of physical and emotional abuse of minors. McAreavey said the first claim of abuse came in 1994, the second in 1998 and the others after Finnegan's death in 2002.

    In a statement, McAreavey said:

    It is their testimonies and their stories which have impacted most on me. It is through their perspective that I realized that my decision to say the funeral Mass of Malachy Finnegan in 2002 was the wrong one. In November 2002, a victim told me how hurt he was by this; I realized that I had made an error of judgement. It is something I regret and will not repeat.

    Finnegan worked at St. Colman's College in Newry as a teacher from 1967–76 and was president from 1976–87. A BBC Spotlight program on the priest was broadcast in February and included three interviews with his alleged victims.



    Three more victims came forward to report abuse following the broadcast of the program. Parents and students also opposed McAreavey's decision to preside at children's confirmations while victims and politicians called for the bishop's resignation.

    His Excellency also concelebrated Mass in 2000 with Finnegan, who "arrived unexpectedly at the parish church in Clonduff [in Hilltown] for the Jubilee Celebration and vested along with other priests before the arrival of the bishop," commented a spokesman for McAreavey's diocese.

    Fr. Malachy Finnegan was accused of 12 claims of physical and emotional abuse of minors. Tweet
    The spokesman said after 1995, Finnegan "carried out no public ministry involving daily Mass," and McAreavey was "shocked" when Finnegan arrived to concelebrate the Mass but said nothing owing to the priest's "ill health at that time made him increasingly difficult to manage, therefore a spur of the moment decision was taken to not to confront him just before the Mass started."

    The bishop reportedly reprimanded the priest at his home afterward, according to the spokesman.

    McAreavey described Finnegan's abusive behavior as "abhorrent, inexcusable and indefensible." Saint Colman's College ordered all photographs of Finnegan to be removed from campus while denouncing "in the strongest possible terms the physical, sexual and emotional abuse inflicted by Malachy Finnegan when he was in the employment of the college over 30 years ago."

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  11. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    https://www.ncronline.org/news/opin...toral-plan-amoris-laetitia-points-way-forward

    :cry::cry::cry:
    Now the Archdiocese of Washington is implementing AL. Our pastor talked about it yesterday at Sunday Mass, briefly saying which family was selected to represent our parish at the Cardinal's Mass. I am feeling ill over this issue. Now it has left Germany and arrived here in the US.
    Also, our pastor made some comment linking this to the World Meeting of Families in Ireland later this year. I just finished praying a rosary. The thought came to me, Sr. Lucia's statement about the family being the target of Satan's attacks in the end days. No doubt in my mind.
     
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  12. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    It doesn't seem like Cardinal Wuerl allowed, at least explicitly, for divorce and remarried divorcees to go to communion without amending their lives.

    This is from the dean of the Dominicans in DC, Fr Petri, who has a lot of weight in DC (https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...dinal-wuerl-shares-a-missionary-mandate-68007):

    "In his pastoral plan for the archdiocese of Washington, Cardinal Wuerl avoids the question of Holy Communion for the divorced and civilly married, even though he repeatedly asserts the need for the formation of conscience, and explains that personal judgement does not supersede the objective moral order. Rather, noting that “each one of us is in an ‘irregular situation’ when it comes to our relationship with the true God,” the cardinal reminds his priests and pastoral leaders that the “Church offers the love and mercy of God as the sure path to fulfill the human desire for love, walks with those who bear and try to overcome the trials and difficulties that too often mark marriage and family as they do life in general. (...)

    After so much polarization, we finally now have a local implementation of Amoris Laeitia that sees the larger picture of Pope Francis’ challenge and vision. It’s a plan that doesn’t get bogged down in a question that was neither asked nor answered in the exhortation: whether divorced and civilly remarried can receive Holy Communion. That question was already answered by Pope St. John Paul II in his 1983 exhortation on the family Familiaris Consortio and has been reaffirmed repeatedly by the Holy See.

    Some will no doubt be disappointed that Cardinal Wuerl did not repeat the Church’s teaching on the matter. Yet, it seems to me that to do so would be to continue the tired arguments of the last few years to the detriment of a vision that seeks to encounter the faithful and to help them not only to know the doctrines of our faith but to experience the liberating truth of what we believe."
     
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  13. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    In fairness to the bishop, that Finnegan needed all the prayers he could get at his funeral Mass.
     
  14. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Cardinal Wuerl might be about to implement AL in light of the constant teaching of the Church. If so, this seems to parallel Cardinal Muller.
     
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  15. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    One can only hope and pray it turns out to follow the Magisterium
     
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  16. ComeSoon!

    ComeSoon! Guest

    I haven't been able to log on all afternoon. Looks like I have a bit of catching up to do later. eek!
    I do like that Cardinal Sarah.
     
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  17. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Indeed. That is the hope. All will be revealed in the goodness of time.

    This is a thought that has been coming to my mind the last few days. Perhaps, we shouldn't get too upset. In a sense, Christ is being crucified again. Remember when Our Lord admonished Peter for the latter's saying that he would not let Him be crucified. "Get thee behind me, satan", He said. Current events may be part of God's plan. This renewed crucifixion may be inevitable and necessary. Maybe, we should accept things and pray that, as on Golgotha, Our Lord will deliver great good from evil. It may be the only way to save as many as can be saved.
     
  18. AED

    AED Powers

    Your words are very comforting DeGaulle. I sometimes think this way myself. "These things must be" but it is a Golgotha for sure.
     
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  19. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    The problems in the Church are way to big for any of us to fix -- the domestic church, the family has been under vicious assault from the enemy for many decades -- we are seeing the fruits of this is a society that is profoundly broken -- profoundly disordered and anarchic.

    I am afraid the Church is incapable of being the field hospital to the world -- she is visibly dying a slow death in front of our eyes -- but from the seeds of martyrdom will come resurrection --

    We can only play our part. Let us accompany our Lord and contemplate His passion asking pardon for the sins of the world and the conversion of sinners -- we can retreat from the world to that interior castle where we can adore Christ alone and hidden.

    My true desire is to be able to detach myself as much as possible from the present system of modernism that has us all so much in its grasp through technology and economic slavery that has created a world without God --- we are all so dependent on an anti-christ system --

    How I do that I do not know but I am praying for illumination in that regard and radical decisions and steps may well have to be made -- if I was single and on my own it would be much easier --

    One thing is sure is that the present modernist system will collapse and anarchy will reign -- better to be as detached as possible so when the great shaking comes we are at least spiritually prepared --
     
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  20. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

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