Well to be fair, it happens on every message board I have ever been on since the 90's. It is commonplace and to think that it is to not be expected is naive especially when ones writing style or arguments are very similar. I find it interesting that the same arguments keep coming up from person to person time and time again.
Pope Francis is on the record for using the language of a liberal in his writings and speeches. Irregular unions/cohabitation instead of fornication. Gay instead of homosexual. Interruption of pregnancy instead of abortion. Classic liberalism excuses everything by diminishing personal responsibility in decision making since the person is seen as a victim of circumstances. Change the language and you effectively 'abolish the sin'.
Some of us it can take many years to come to the knowledge of Christ and understand the errors and sin we have committed. Some of us never truly will because they are incapable of facing themselves honestly. Many of us know exactly what we are doing when we commit sins and seek ways to avoid the truth. Whether that be because we are prideful and rebellious or that we never received the proper training growing up to even have a fear of the Lord in the first place and it is llovingly beaten into us through the lessons God tries to reach us by. Grace and Mercy are huge contributors to gaining insight when one is enslaved to sin and does not understand how to and is unable to break away from it. Some of us need much more than others in this regard from Christ as well as our brothers and sisters. This is the Grace of Our Lord at its finest when the light comes on and a person truly is condemned of their sin and seeks the Lord to relieve them of it. It is then that they must take action just as we are taught and renounce it and seek to be absolved and then make amends for it if it has caused another harm. Alas, we are then in Grace with our Lord! Thanks be to Christ!!! The Church has always said yes to grace, mercy, forgiveness and breaking free of the enslavement of sin and absolution. Who does not have family or friends who are caught up in the world and being prayed for and reached out to continually? The key to this is and has always been with the person who is caught up in their sin. They must have the sincere desire to change. Change is not easy and requires courage and trust on the part of the one who is condemned by the Holy Spirit. Many times it requires things which people are simply unwilling to do. So they seek to bend the rules and avoid paying the price of their actions. Nobody said it would be easy.
Pope Francis said. “I’ve seen a lot of fidelity in these cohabitations, and I am sure that this is a real marriage, they have the grace of a real marriage because of their fidelity... Why do you not admit that what the Pope said is against Catholic teaching? Also you said earlier on, that the Pope NEVER told people that being shacked up is a source of God's grace - surely you can admit that you made a mistake in that.
Not only this Garabandal, he takes a play out of the "Rules for Radicals" (which Obama was trained on) play book by labeling his adversaries with coined words such as Pharisees, Rigid, Legalists etc... and many other words aimed to silence their opponents from speaking against them. He wants no one to have any credibility to rebuke his dissent from church teaching, whether explicit or implicit. This is so typical for liberals and it is no secret to those who have paid attention to the progressives in the past 40 years or more.
Liberals also forget that repentance is necessary for God to heal us. Yes REPENTANCE is necessary for healing! Without it, it is all academic. We never enter into sanctifying grace, which is necessary within the soul for salvation.
The priest who distributed the ashes on this past Ash Wednesday used this form: "Repent and believe in the Gospel." Sometimes priests will use the form about "Remember you are dust and unto dust you shall return." At least I think that is how it goes. But the word Repent struck me this time. How many times Jesus used it. When I was a kid and read the Bible, I read that part about "the wages of sin is death." I saw it on billboards, if I am not mistaken. I had no clue what it meant. However, as I grow closer to the Lord, I see that every action has a consequence, every sin has a price exacted. It is like the story of Dr. Faustus. The devil came to claim his dues when Faust was dying. Some priests still use the word sin. I would love to hear it more often. I have said here on the forum before that when I was in my teens, our pastor invariably told people on Sundays from his pulpit that they could leave the Mass, drive off the lot, and get killed by a car, and be in Hell if they had not been to Confession and were not in a state of grace. That was the Roman Catholic version of a hell-fire and brimstone sermon, and it does not hurt to hear it. Jesus talked about the fires of Hell many times. I think about the good and holy priests we had and how many souls they helped. And I also remember that if I ever had a question about the Commandments or Laws of the Church, I could ask any priest and get the same answer.
http://www.romereports.com/2014/12/16/pope-francis-explains-how-to-achieve-true-repentance Too much I guess the Pope is conservative not liberal. Brother al
Yes Brother Al these homilies of Our Holy Father are very beautiful and should be shouted from the roof tops! Maybe Our Holy Father words here, need to be connected to his other reported words and actions? When juxtaposing this homily to other reports of his words, actions and endorsments "there in lies the enigma!" Pope Francis explains how to achieve true repentance 2014-12-16 In his Tuesday morning Mass, Pope Francis talked about repentance. He said that only those who repent accept Salvation. He went even further explaining what it really means to reject one's sins. POPE FRANCIS "If you don't listen to the Lord, if you don’t accept correction and if you do not trust Him, your heart has not yet repented.” The Pope concluded that Jesus condemned the hypocrites who called themselves 'pure' but lived a double life. EXCEPRT OF THE POPE'S HOMILY (Source: Vatican Radio) "These people cannot receive Salvation. They are closed to Salvation. ‘I will leave within you the meek and humble; they will trust in the name of the Lord’ throughout their lives. And that is still Valid today, isn’t it? When we look at the holy people of God that is humble, that has its riches in its faith in the Lord, in its trust in the Lord - the humble, poor people that trust in the Lord: these are the ones who are saved and this is the way of the Church, isn’t it? This is the path I must follow, not the path in which I do not listen to His voice, do not accept correction and do not trust in the Lord." "If your heart is not a repentant heart, if you do not listen to the Lord, if you don’t accept correction and you do not trust in Him, your heart is unrepentant. These hypocrites who were scandalized by what Jesus said about the tax collectors and the prostitutes, but then secretly approached them to vent their passion or to do business - but all in secrecy - were pure! The Lord does not want them." "He listened to the Lord, he always followed His will, he gave to the Lord, and the Lord said to him: 'there is still one thing you have not given me’. And the poor man who was good said: 'But, Lord, what is it that I have not given you? I have given you my life, I work for the poor, I work for catechesis, I work here, I work there ... ‘ 'But there is something you have not given me yet' .- 'What is it Lord? 'Your sins'. When we will be able to say to the Lord: 'Lord, these are my sins – they are not his or hers, they are mine… They are mine. Take them and I will be saved'- when we will be able to do this we will be that people, ‘that meek and humble people', that trusts in the Lord's name. May the Lord grant us this grace."
Why did Pope Francis not mention in his document AL ,that those in adultery need to repent? I know one reason. He didn't even mention the word adultery in the encyclical. He only mentions those who follow the doctrines of the church, whom he calls Pharisees, rigid, legalistic and who need repentance, not those who break the 10 commandments. ""If you don't listen to the Lord, if you don’t accept correction and if you do not trust Him, your heart has not yet repented.” The Pope concluded that Jesus condemned the hypocrites who called themselves 'pure' but lived a double life. Are those who practice adultery and receive Eucharist "hypocrites" or are they pure of heart? Boy those quotes would be nice to see when referring to those in adultery and fornication, rather than telling them they are in God's grace. Indians used to call this, "speaking with forked tongue".
fallen saint said: ↑ And Catholics have never stated grace come with sin. Fallen saint, can you please address this?
He should address this. It is a fair question. To avoid it would be cowardly.Not to mention it does appear Heresy.
I thought it might be helpful to fill out a little of what happened "Today in Rome..." See the last paragraph: Pope: avoid the “temptation to feel sorry for ourselves” Francis in Carpi among the earthquake victims: “Do not yield to the logic of unnecessary fear. This is the atmosphere of the sepulcher; the Lord wants to open the way to life” Carpi, the embrace between Francis and Caffara Pubblicato il 02/04/2017 ANDREA TORNIELLI VATICAN CITY “Let us not be imprisoned by the temptation of being alone and disheartened, to feel sorry for ourselves for what happens to us. This is the atmosphere of the sepulcher; the Lord wants to open the way to life, of resurrection of the heart. “ A week from Milan, once again the Pope leaves Rome to celebrate Mass in the Martyrs Square in Carpi, among the earthquake victims of Emilia. Welcomed by tens of thousands of people, on the stage built in front of the cathedral rebuilt and returned to the cult on March 25, 2017, Francis told the Gospel of the day, describing the resurrection of Lazarus, Jesus’ friend. This is an opportunity to reflect on death and resurrection. Bergoglio stresses Jesus’s emotion, “shaken by the dramatic mystery of the loss of a loved one.” This, the Pope points out, “is the heart of God: away from evil, but near those who suffer; He does not make evil magically disappear, but He shares the suffering, He takes it with Himself, lives it and transforms it” But, Francis adds, even in the midst of everyone’s desolation over the death of Lazarus, “Jesus is never carried away by discouragement, He does not close himself in tears, but prays with confidence.” “So - says the Pope - in the mystery of suffering, before which modern thinking and progress crash like flies on glass, Jesus gives us an example of how to behave: he does not flee from suffering, which belongs to this life, he does not let himself be imprisoned by pessimism.” Around the sepulchre , the Pope explained, “A great meeting as well as a clash are taking place. On one side, there is disappointment, the precariousness of our mortal life, crossed by the anguish of our inevitable death, which often experiences defeats, and holds an inner darkness that seems insurmountable. Our soul, created for life, suffers that thirst for eternal good oppressed by an ancient and evil darkness. On the one hand, there is this defeat of the sepulchre. But on the other side, there is a hope that overcomes death and evil and that hope has a name: Jesus. “ Francis says Jesus “does not bring just a little ’well-being or some remedy to prolong life”. He proclaims He is “resurrection and life; who believes in me, will defeat death, and will live.” And so we too, are invited to decide which side to take. We can stand on the side of the sepulchre or the side of Jesus. Some people are overcome by sadness and some open up to hope. Some people are still trapped in the rubble of life and some, like you, with the help of God lift the rubble up and rebuild with patient and hope. “An observation referring to the hard work with which the local populations have reacted by engaging in reconstruction after the earthquake In front of the big “whys” of life, the Pope explained, “we have two ways: sit back sadly in front of yesterday and today sepulchers, or to bring Jesus to our small sepulchers. Yes, because each of us has a small sepulcher, some area a bit ’dead’ inside our heart: a wound, an injury suffered or done, a bitterness that does not go away, a returning remorse, a sin that cannot be overcome. Let us identify these sepulchers and invite there Jesus. It is strange, but often we prefer to be alone in the darkness of our own caves, instead of inviting Jesus inside; we are tempted to always look for ourselves, sink in anguish and lick our wounds, rather than go to Him. “ The Pope urges us not to allow ourselves to be locked by the temptation of distrust, not to “repeat in resignation that everything is wrong and that nothing is like it used to be,” because this “is the atmosphere of the sepulcher” “We feel ours the words addressed to Lazarus:” Come out! “; come out of the hopeless sadness; untie the bandages of fear that obstruct the path; the laces of weaknesses of concerns that stop you, remember that God loosens the knots. In following Jesus, we learn not to tie our lives around problems and their tangled consequences. “ Of course, the Pope recognizes, “there will always be problems and, as soon as we solve one, another one comes up.” But it is possible to find a new stability, and “this stability is precisely Jesus who is resurrection and life: with him, joy dwells in the heart, hope is reborn, pain is transformed into peace, fear into confidence, the challenge into an offer of love. Life will always have its burdens, but His hand will always help us back up. He tells all of us «Do not be afraid” “For how heavy the past might be, how great the sin, or heavy the shame – Francis concluded – let’s not bar the way to the Lord. We shall remove that stone blocking Him from coming in. This is the right time to remove our sin, our attachment to worldly vanity, to the pride that closes off our soul. “ Arriving at the Duomo, the Pope has greeted all the Bishops of the Region present, pausing to speak with Cardinal Carlo Caffarra, retired archbishop of Bologna and signatory with three other cardinals of the five “dubia” on the exhortation Amoris laetitia. Caffara and Francis embraced each other fraternally. http://www.lastampa.it/2017/04/02/v...-ourselves-dY0OOxXXTegjLez9DQ5oEN/pagina.html
