The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I have a son who is in his late 20's. Today he was asking me all about what was going on with Pope Francis as he apparently has read something on a blog and wanted to know more. I was all thrilled of course, to explain what has been going on with the Dubia and with the Lutherans and the slow slide into a possible Abomination of Desolation. Now looking more probable than possible, I regret to say. I need to tell him about this forum, but I am being cautious not to overwhelm him at first. Anyway, my Rosaries and prayers to Our Lady of Perpetual Help have been paying off. He left this evening, but not before asking me to keep him posted on the situation. We are blessed that he is a practicing Catholic, but as Fatima always reminds us, sometimes Father Nice and Father Fluff are up there on the pulpit. One thing that he said today...he said that our pastor almost never talks about Pope Francis anymore. In the beginning of Pope Francis's pontificate, our pastor would rave about how wonderful the Pope was. Now, he is silent. My son thinks it is because he is noticing and pondering the inconsistencies.
    Our pastor is a Canon lawyer and I think he was on the Tribunal when I received my annulment, although I did not know him then.
    We must keep praying and trusting. I love it when things start adding up, don't you guys?
    "All things work together for good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose." Romans 8:28
     
  2. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    View attachment 6106
    This is the old Hill family private Catholic chapel which was built in the late 1700's. It is located in Upper Marlboro, Maryland. (near DC)
    It has been restored now, and is visible from the road when the leaves are off the trees. It is located on the grounds of an estate called Compton Bassett.
    I guess it harkens back to the days when there were very few parish churches in the countryside. I would love to go inside.
    Makes you wonder about the folks who went to Mass there and who the priests were.
     
  3. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

    Nice setting for a wedding:)
     
  4. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

    Great story! Thank you.
     
  5. padraig

    padraig Powers


    Aww I love old Churches. Sometimes in Ireland when they need to build bigger more modern Churches they leave the old one ,surrounded by the graveyard for funerals. I much prefer this than seeing them being turned into halls or cafes, which makes me sad.

    As I got to Castlewellan last week and saw the old Church and village surrounded by mountains and forests and it made me think of the generations of Faithful Catholics who went there.

    [​IMG]

     
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  6. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I really love it in the smokey , misty evenings, walking through the woods , when I hear the bells of Angelus coming from the Church below.

    My feet may still be in the woods, but my heart goes inside the Church and my eyes are often in tears with prayerful longing for Our Lady and Heaven.


    View attachment 6107

     
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  7. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    Sorry I can´t find this article in English. Says Mr Ehrlich is thrilled with the current Pope who is moving the Church in the right direction etc. etc.

    https://infovaticana.com/2017/02/10...-cultura-la-muerte-emocionado-papa-francisco/

    Paul Ehrlich, ideólogo de la cultura de la muerte, ‘emocionado’ con el Papa Francisco
    LifeSiteNews
    10 febrero, 2017

    “Estoy emocionado con el nuevo Papa que está moviendo a la Iglesia en la dirección correcta”, ha asegurado a LifeSiteNews uno de los grandes defensores del aborto y la esterilización masiva que dará próximamente una conferencia en el Vaticano.


    LifeSiteNews– El padre indiscutible del movimiento de control de la población moderno dijo a LifeSiteNews en una entrevista exclusiva que está “emocionado” con la dirección en la que el Papa Francisco está llevando a la Iglesia Católica.

    “Estoy emocionado con el nuevo Papa que está moviendo a la Iglesia en la dirección correcta,” afirma Paul Ehrlich, autor del bestseller The Population Bomb, en un intercambio de correos electrónicos con LifeSiteNews.

    El biólogo de Stanford ha sido invitado por el Vaticano para realizar una ponencia en la conferencia que tendrá lugar a finales de este mes sobre el tema “Cómo salvar el mundo natural” de la extinción.

    Bajo el título extinción biológica, la conferencia abordará lo que los organizadores del Vaticano llaman un “desequilibrio” insostenible entre la población del mundo y lo que la Tierra es capaz de producir. El evento está patrocinado conjuntamente por la Pontificia Academia de las Ciencias y la Pontificia Academia de las Ciencias Sociales.

    Ehrlich ha abogado por el aborto selectivo por sexo así como por la esterilización forzosa como métodos legítimos para frenar el crecimiento de la población.

    Ehrlich se ha mostrado hostil a la Iglesia Católica y sus enseñanzas sobre la vida, sobre todo bajo los pontificados de Juan Pablo II y Benedicto XVI.

    En su libro de 1994 The Stork and the Plow, Ehrlich sugiere que la “posibilidad más brillante para cambiar la posición del Vaticano [contra la anticoncepción] y dejar que la humanidad siga adelante con su propia salvación es la determinación de muchos católicos fuera del Vaticano de efectuar ese cambio.”

    Él denunció el catolicismo como “peligroso” en un artículo publicado en enero de 2013 (dos meses antes de la elección de Francisco), por su oposición a la anticoncepción.

    Durante el inicio del pontificado de Francisco, Ehrlich continuó en un primer momento su tendencia de criticar al Papa y la Iglesia por oponerse a la anticoncepción:

    • En 2014, dijo que el “papa y muchos de los obispos son uno de los verdaderos males, fuerzas regresivas del planeta” por su “oposición al uso de la anticoncepción”.
    • En septiembre del año 2015 calificó Laudato Si’ de “desvarío sin sentido” por no permitir el control de la población como una solución a los problemas ambientales.
    • En octubre del año 2015 hizo un llamamiento a Francisco a romper con la enseñanza católica mediante el apoyo a “los derechos de la mujer y la planificación familiar.” Dijo que Francisco “necesita prestar atención a sus propias observaciones sobre la “obsesión” de la Iglesia con la anticoncepción y el aborto, y asumir una posición de liderazgo en favor de los derechos de la mujer y la planificación familiar “.
    Sin embargo, Ehrlich ha cambiado ahora su discurso.

    Esto puede deberse a más de una docena de casos desde 2014 en los que Francisco ha indicado que tiene un enfoque diferente a la enseñanza tradicional católica sobre anticoncepción.

    La Iglesia Católica enseña en la Humanae Vitae que cualquier acto matrimonial debe quedar abierto a la transmisión de la vida. ” La anticoncepción es calificada de “intrínsecamente deshonesta” ya que destruye la integridad unitiva y procreadora del acto conyugal.

    LifeSiteNews preguntó a Ehrlich en qué dirección está llevando a la Iglesia Francisco.

    “Más hacia la preocupación por los problemas ambientales como la alteración del clima y la sexta gran extinción [ver aquí ] que amenazan la vida de las generaciones futuras”, dijo.

    ¿Él ve indicios de que Francisco intentará revertir la enseñanza católica contra la anticoncepción?

    “Creo que el Papa reconoce la amenaza a la vida futura, y a la persistencia de la sociedad, planteada por la superpoblación”, dijo.

    “La planificación familiar con métodos anticonceptivos modernos es la única solución ética, y si se hacen universalmente disponibles se reduciría en gran medida la frecuencia del aborto. También mejoraría, en general, la salud y la educación de las mujeres. Francisco es un hombre brillante y compasivo – saque sus propias conclusiones “, añadió.

    ¿Va a sugerir en su conferencia en el Vaticano que la Iglesia revierta su enseñanza en contra de la anticoncepción?

    “Es un documento conjunto con un colega y no está terminado todavía. Estas cuestiones serán determinadas, probablemente, cuando nos encontremos en Roma “, dijo.
     
  8. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Way to boil it down again, Padraig! I remember the Browns and that song very vividly from my growing up years, and thanks for the Lourdes clip. That is probably about as close as I will ever get.
     
  9. AED

    AED Powers

    Yes, I've seen this too. Little old ladies--and men--who go with the flow. It is as if they've been vaccinated against the truth. I think luke warm priests are often frightened priests. Afraid of being hounded out of the parishes if they dare to speak the unadulterated word of God.
     
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  10. AED

    AED Powers

    Makes me think of this. "Remove your shoes. You are standing on holy ground."
     
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  11. AED

    AED Powers

    Two years ago I was traveling in Asia and went to Mass at a beautiful Cathedral in a very Buddhist culture. The priest who was Phillipino said from the pulpit, "we are not the Church of "Nice" We are the Church of Christ and His teachings..." I can't quote the rest directly but it was a wonderful clarion call to live the true teachings of the Church--but to summarize he said that he knew they would probably report him to the Bishop but he didn't care. Souls were at stake. On the way out I shook his hand and thanked him. I said I wished we had priests like him in my diocese. He looked utterly shocked and then he very warmly thanked me. What a brave brave hero of the faith,.
     
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  12. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    http://wdtprs.com/blog/2017/02/new-...onse-to-the-five-dubia-of-the-four-cardinals/

    New booklet by Cardinal asserted to be response to the Five Dubia of the Four Cardinals
    Posted on 13 February 2017 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf
    [​IMG]In the shallow, liberal, Italian Catholic weekly Panorama we are informed about a booklet now out over the name of Card. Coccopalmerio, Prefect of the Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts. It is ballyhooed as “the response” to the Five Dubia of the Four “intransigent” Cardinals, who are dissenters because they are defending doctrine.

    Of course it can’t be that, can it? The response to the Dubia should come from the Holy Father (to whom they were submitted) or from the CDF (whose Prefect has spoken unofficially about the issues but who hasn’t issued anything official).

    Beware. When you read Panorama your IQ is likely to drop. The use of verbs would help their writers come off as less smarmy. But I digress.

    Here is some of the piece in my fast translation. My emphases and comments.

    In a little book on the reasons why the Church can’t turn back in the face of those who “are not in tune with Catholic doctrine”.

    “Divorced and remarried, unmarried couples living together, are certainly not models of unions in harmony with Catholic doctrine, but the Church cannot look the other way. For which reason the sacraments of reconciliation and of communion ought to be given also to so-called wounded families[a euphemism intended to arouse emotion rathe
    r than thought, empathy rather than clarity]
    and to those who even though living in situations not in line with the traditional canons on matrimony, express a sincere desire to draw closer to the sacraments after an adequate period of discernment.” [Not just “canons”. They are not in line with Christ’s teaching either, or the perennial doctrine of the Church.]

    [​IMG]This is the pointed, calm and precise response that Pope Francis gives [Noooo…. Pope Francis didn’t give it. The Cardinal did. But this is what they want you to accept.] to those especially within the church and even in the College of Cardinals, who continue to express doubts about the Post-Synodal Apostolic Exhortation Amoris Laetitia in which, for the first time, there is foreseen the possibility of admitting to the sacraments those who contract a second marriage, unmarried couples living together and those people who live together in deformity with ecclesial directions in the matter of nuptial unions.

    An indirect response, in any event, [See the slight of hand?] but [BUT!] the fruit of a deep canonical and ecclesiological study made, at the request of the same Pontiff, by one of the closest and most trusted collaborators, Cardinal Francesco Coccopalmerio, President of the Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts (the “ministry” of justice of the Holy See).

    The text – a booklet of only 30 pages entitled, “The 8th chapter of the Post-Synodal Apostolic Exhortation Amoris Laetitia” – was printed by the Vatican Press and on Wednesday 8 February arrived in religious bookstores which surround the Vatican.

    The Doubts of the Four Cardinals

    An initiative, they [the famous “they”] explained in the Vatican, that aims to “clarify” all the “doubts” raised by the most traditionalist elements bound with a vengeance [How mean! How merciless! How … mean!] to the defense of ecclesial doctrine in the matter of matrimonial life and of access to the sacraments. [What sort of surreal, Dali-esque landscape has the Church become if those who defend doctrine are suddenly the dissenters? Clocks are melting off the sides of tables.]

    […]

    To all appearances, like a “normal” request for canonical clarifications, [This is more slight of hand: the Dubia ask for doctrinal clarifications, not just canonical. So, the respose from an official of a canonical office isn’t going to take care of the doubts.] in reality a gesture of clear though polite disobedience on the part of four members of the College of Cardinals the organism which by its very nature is called to back up the reigning Pope in the governance of the Church. [“Those dirty rotten mean old cardinals! They are mean old meanies!” (That’s the general level of the reader of Panorama, by the way.)]

    It is normal that if a Cardinal feels the need to have clarifications on certain matters he can ask for them calmly – they assure us across the Tiber – in the course of personal audiences with the Pope. It is another thing to publish an open letter and bring up doubts and discontents in public opinion. A clearly offensive gesture toward the Pope almost completely like those which are used in interviews. As, for example, the German Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, did in recent days, who, in a newspaper, openly criticized admission to the sacraments of couples living together and the divorced and remarried because, he admonished, Doctrine “is to be left alone” (la Dottrina “non si tocca”). [Do you see what they did? They smear Müller in order to raise Coccopalmerio above him as an authority. Thus the Doctrine Cardinal is out and the Canonical Cardinal is in.]

    […]

    This is another confusing puzzle piece to deal with. It is confusing because it has the appearance of official approval (it was published by the Vatican Press), but it remains a non-response response to the Five Dubia. That’s probably why the ad hominem attacks lace the Panorama piece.

    In any event, we still – prayerfully and patiently – await greater clarity from some with the true authority to issue what are manifest and actual responses to the Dubia. Or else… we await a statement that they are not going to be answered.

    Clocks melting off the edges of tables. Elephants on stilts. This situation is getting really strange.

    [​IMG]

    The moderation queue is, of course, ON.
     
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  13. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2017/02/important-francis-surrogate-to-answer.html?m=1#more

    IMPORTANT: Francis surrogate to answer the dubia on Amoris Laetitia tomorrow?
    We are told to watch for a press conference tomorrow focused on Amoris Laetitia. It is said to be the official reply to the four cardinals' dubia, which will be answered by Cardinal Francesco Coccopalmerio, President of the Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legal Texts.



    [​IMG]


    In terms of how it will happen, we are told that Cardinal Coccopalmerio's new book on Amoris Laetitia, written at the request of Pope Francis, will be released. Here is an excerpt:



    "The divorced and remarried, de facto couples, those cohabiting, are certainly not models of unions in sync with Catholic Doctrine, but the Church cannot look the other way. Therefore, the sacraments of Reconciliation and of Communion must be given even to those so-called wounded families and to however many who, despite living in situations not in line with traditional matrimonial canons, express the sincere desire to approach the sacraments after an appropriate period of discernment... Yes, therefore, to admission to the sacraments for those who, despite living in irregular situations, sincerely ask for admission into the fullness of ecclesial life, it is a gesture of openness and profound mercy on the part of Mother Church, who does not leave behind any of her children, aware that absolute perfection is a precious gift, but one which cannot be reached by everyone."

    Read more (in Italian)
    here.
     
  14. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-council-of-cardinals-pledge-allegiance-to-pope-francis

    BREAKING: Council of Cardinals pledges allegiance to Pope Francis
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]John-Henry Westen Follow John-Henry
    ROME, February 13, 2017 (LifeSiteNews) – In an odd note without explanation placed on the Vatican's daily press briefing today, the Council of Cardinals, a group of 10 Cardinals which Pope Francis has delegated to work with him on reform, has pledged allegiance to the Pope.

    “In relation to recent events, the Council of Cardinals pledges its full support for the Pope’s work, assuring him at the same time of its adhesion and loyalty to the figure of the Pope and to his Magisterium,” said the note.

    The statement comes in the wake of two public expressions of dissatisfaction or concern with Pope Francis that hit the streets of Rome in the last week. The first was a poster campaign which saw dozens of large posters plastered around the city. They noted Francis’ dismantling congregations, removing priests and more, and asked in conclusion, “Where is your mercy?” The second was a satirical version of the Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano painting the Pope as answering the dubia with ‘yes and no’ to each question.

    Cardinal Marc Ouellet, prefect of the Congregation for Bishops, last week criticized the poster campaign as a "work of the devil." However, the Cardinal was criticized for his condemnation of the public expression of the faithful given that he has direct access to the Pope, whereas the laity do not.

    Responding to his criticism of the poster campaign, blogger Hilary White, LifeSite’s former Rome correspondent, said: “Really? They’re not the methods we’re supposed to use? What would your eminence suggest? Dubia, perhaps? Formally submitted by the lawful authority and in accordance with the requirements of Canon Law? How’s that working out?”

    The Council of Cardinals' statement of allegiance would seem to suggest that public campaigns are more effective at reaching the Pope than the many official complaints of Cardinals, Bishops, priests, and faithful.

    The members of the Council of Cardinals are:

    Óscar Andrés Rodríguez Maradiaga, SDB, Archbishop of Tegucigalpa, Honduras (coordinator)
    Marcello Semeraro, Bishop of Albano, Italy (Secretary)
    Giuseppe Bertello, President of the Pontifical Commission for the Vatican City State
    Francisco Javier Errázuriz Ossa, Archbishop-Emeritus of Santigo de Chile
    Oswald Gracias, Archbishop of Bombay, India
    Reinhard Marx, Archbishop of Munich and Freising, Germany
    Laurent Monsengwo Pasinya, Archbishop of Kinshasa, Congo
    Seán Patrick O'Malley OFM Cap, Archbishop of Boston, USA
    George Pell, Prefect of the Secretariat for the Economy, Vatican
    Pietro Parolin, Secretary of State, Vatican
     
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  15. Ed Kleese

    Ed Kleese Servant

    +
    Holy Ground and God's Breath, His Name said aloud.



    Peace, Ed
     
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  16. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/the-city-gates.cfm?ID=1411

    Unrest at the Vatican; reassurances backfire
    By Phil Lawler (bio - articles - email) | Feb 14, 2017

    What in the world is going on in Rome this week?

    First the Vatican press office issues a statement from the Council of Cardinals, supporting the Pope. It would certainly be news if the Council of Cardinals did not support the Pope. But why was this statement newsworthy? Why did the Council thank the Pontiff in February for a speech he delivered to the Roman Curia in December? Is there any way to see this message as something other than damage control—as a bid to reassure the world that the increasingly evident tensions within the Catholic hierarchy are not tearing the Church apart?

    Unfortunately, the evidence of those tensions continues to mount. Today the Vatican press launched a book by Cardinal Francesco Coccopalmerio, backing the German/Maltese/Argentine interpretation of Amoris Laetitia. So now Cardinal Coccopalmerio, the Vatican’s top official on matters canonical, is in direct conflict with Cardinal Gerhard Müller, the top official on matters doctrinal. If the Coccopalmerio book was intended to quiet questions about the dubia, it will inevitably fail, just as yesterday’s odd press release predictably failed to calm concerns about intramural Vatican conflicts. The universal Church does not need one more prelate’s personal reading of the papal document; we need a definitive answer, which can only come from the Pope himself.

    But there’s more. After the Vatican announced a press conference for the launch of the Coccopalmerio book—with enough ballyhoo to confirm the impressions that this was a bid to end the debate—the cardinal himself failed to appear for the event. The cardinal’s office explained that he had a scheduling conflict.

    Now wait just a minute. If you are a publisher, planning the launch of a new book, the very first thing you do is make sure the author will be available for the press conference. If you are the author, and a date is suggested, the very first thing you do is check for potential conflicts. Are we really expected to believe that neither the author nor the publisher did the very first thing to ensure that the press conference would be a success? If this book (a booklet, really) was considered so important, why couldn’t the cardinal rearrange his schedule to attend the press conference, even if he did have a conflict?

    Rumors of intrigue are always circulating around the Vatican. But in recent weeks the rumor mill has been spinning at a fearsome pace, churning out disturbing reports that are, alas, not easily dismissed. Is the situation really as tense and volatile as those rumors suggest? If the public announcements of the past two days were designed to convince us that it’s business as usual at the Vatican, they have failed utterly.

    [​IMG]
    Phil Lawler has been a Catholic journalist for more than 30 years. He has edited several Catholic magazines and written eight books. Founder of Catholic World News, he is the news director and lead analyst at CatholicCulture.org. See full bio.
     
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  17. janet Walton

    janet Walton Angels

    Approved.

    ”God has given us a sign for our current times, with Emeritus Pope Benedict XVI and Pope Francis: the Emeritus Pope prays in silence, in humility and worship for the Pope who must speak to the world and take action. Thereby, we must come together and pray a lot for the Church. Satan today creates confusion in many countries and he also wants the confusion to invade the Vatican. He wants above all to destroy the Church and thus attack the center of the Church, by removing the Pope and the Vatican. But the Virgin Mary intervenes to protect the Church, and that is why She appears in different places in the entire world. ” .http://www.miraclehunter.com/…/itapiranga/index.html
     
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  18. janet Walton

    janet Walton Angels

    Pope Francis consecrated Vatican City to St Michael the Archangel, and asked him to drive out satan.
     
  19. picadillo

    picadillo Guest


    Excellent article. I have great respect for Phil Lawler, as he was one of the only catholic journalists who laid it all on the line about the church's pedophile problems. Something has got to give. The stubbornness/intractableness of this pope belies his image of one of humbleness
     
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  20. lynnfiat

    lynnfiat Fiat Voluntas Tua

    We all know who causes division. Do not let him win!
     

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