Anyway I am not getting into some kind of Eternal argument over this. I believe anyone with honest eyes to see will see things a lot more clearly when the smoke of battle clears a little. Those with honest, open eyes, I mean. Not those who support heresy.
Jerry, I understand and appreciate your deep concern for Padraig, but must say I have my hesitations concerning your approach. I think a present public sifting of MOG members is unproductive. Many of us are paying close attention, waiting to see if Pope Francis definitively responds to the Dubia or not. I love Padraig and cannot condemn him for following his conscience, though I personally believe the jury is still out. I include Pope Francis in every one of my Rosaries and trust in the Holy Spirit to bring this dilemma to resolution. My advice is to continue to seek the facts because if this dilemma does instigate a public schism, we each will have to make a very serious, serious choice. Pray, pray, pray! The Two Hearts will not fail us! May we be one in singing this beautiful hymn, trusting in the Providence of God! The Church's One Foundation 1 The Church’s one foundation Is Jesus Christ her Lord, She is His new creation By water and the Word. From heaven He came and sought her To be His holy bride; With His own blood He bought her And for her life He died. 2 She is from every nation, Yet one o’er all the earth; Her charter of salvation, One Lord, one faith, one birth; One holy Name she blesses, Partakes one Holy Food, And to one Hope she presses, With every grace endued. 3 The Church shall never perish! Her dear Lord to defend, To guide, sustain, and cherish, Is with her to the end: Though there be those who hate her, And false sons in her pale, Against or foe or traitor She ever shall prevail. 4 Though with a scornful wonder Men see her sore oppressed, By schisms rent asunder, By heresies distressed: Yet saints their watch are keeping, Their cry goes up, “How long?” And soon the night of weeping Shall be the morn of song! 5 ’Mid toil and tribulation, And tumult of her war, She waits the consummation Of peace forevermore; Till, with the vision glorious, Her longing eyes are blest, And the great Church victorious Shall be the Church at rest. 6 Yet she on earth hath union With God the Three in One, And mystic sweet communion With those whose rest is won, With all her sons and daughters Who, by the Master’s Hand Led through the deathly waters, Repose in Eden land. 7 O happy ones and holy! Lord, give us grace that we Like them, the meek and lowly, On high may dwell with Thee: There, past the border mountains, Where in sweet vales the Bride With Thee by living fountains Forever shall abide! Amen
[QUOTE="padraig, post: 15 Why did Cardinal Burke say Pope francis is not in heresy? You have some serious issues. Messed up ideas. You need to think carefully who is guiding your thoughts because it isnt the Holy Spirit. Search deep and realize what you are doing.
By the way one last thing and then I will be silent on this thread. This is a time of testing for the People of God. We are dividing onto differing shades of opinion. In the first position are those who share in and agree with the heresies emanating from the Vatican. For those I have no words but only prayers. I have never wasted time on such. You follow those who lead you on a dark path to a dark, dark place. May God have mercy on your poor souls. For you have surrendered to the Spirit of the World and to the Lord of this World, who is Satan. Enough said there. For those of you who are genuinely confused, you have my genuine and sincere sympathy. My advise is to pray and do penance with eyes and ears wide open that the Holy Spirit of God may show you the way. But my words are most especially to those of you who see this Great Evil that has befallen us and believe a small group of dissident Cardinals will save us. To you may I give a Prophetic Word. This time round it will not be those in Ecclesial Power that will save us. Not four Cardinals. This time round it will be the ordinary Good and Faithful lay folk like you and me who will save us. We who stand on our feet and stand beside the truth. We are the ones who will save the Church. Not the Hierarchy. The poor and the little ones. The Lambs of God. The Testing Time is upon us. Those who go to their destruction will go to their destruction. Those who stand behind the Truth of the Holy Catholic Church taught to us by the Fathers of the Church shall walk the road to heaven. May God's Holy Will be Done.
.... and on a lighter note ... Padraig and others might enjoy this 'toon: View attachment 5923 GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!! .......... & HAPPY 2017 ... We Pray!!! PS: I think Jerry should have added a 5th Option to the poll: I don't know who the **** is Right or Wrong so I'm Trusting in The Father, Jesus and The Holy Ghost
Hi Padraig, after 9 Years with Fatima and 10 Years with Garabandal, I can confirm before God and any mistake from me will send me to hell directly, so I am aware very well about my own Responsability, that you are rigth at 100%, I can confirm before God that this Pope is in the Fatima 3rd Secret with a probably of 100%, let me end this message with your own words : We are the ones who will save the Church, not the Hierarchy, the Poor and the little ones, the Lambs of God. Even Cardinal Burke, probably the main Cardinal behind the Dubia is not Great as the Poors and the little ones you are quoting and I'll say especially Cardinal Burke, this shows you in other words the state of the Church currently, my Friend, in one word Terrible.
I would just like to take this moment to say to all those who in the past have accused Padraig of throwing people off the forum because they disagreed with him, I think you all owe him an apology. It has been a week since he has stated his opinion about Pope Francis and he has received a lot of blowback from it from many members. I don't see one member who has been removed from the forum , warned, or even spoken harshly to. Though I do not back his theological position on this issue, I want to thank him for this forum. It really is a special place on the web and you all are really like family in a way.
Padraig, Padraig, please listen to Potatosack. You are promoting Schism from our beautiful Catholic faith and you are seriously risking excommunication. You have been given a great responsibility by leading this forum. Please close this thread. Please talk to a Priest. I am feeling so deeply saddened by this, praying for you.
Padraig isn't promoting schism. None of the four Cardinals who submitted the dubia are promoting schism. Any schism would be led by the Pope's friends in the unlikely event that a response from him to the dubia clearly reaffirms what the Church has always taught about the sanctity of marriage and absolution being conditional on repentance and a firm purpose of amendment. I will be very surprised if there is any response to the dubia from this Pope but I thank God for the Cardinals who submitted them and made them public. I'm firmly convinced that the dubia and the brave attempt by the Cardinals to defend the Faith will be referenced by some future Pope tasked with correcting the mess left by Pope Francis. I don't expect any Council of the Church to take Pope Francis to task because (a) I don't believe there are enough members of the hierarchy willing to risk their necks on the chopping block of mercy; (b) too many of the hierarchy perceive and want this to be a stepping stone to gay marriage; (c) too many of the hierarchy fancy themselves as heads of individual diocese with only a loose connection to Rome, which is apparently the route preferred by Pope Francis as he abuses his position to undermine the papacy; and (d) too many of the hierarchy are afraid of a backlash from Christmas Catholics supported by the secular media, which should tell any doubters all they need to know about this Pope's orthodoxy. Is Pope Francis the valid Pope? I suppose he is although I don't know how he and his friends got themselves un-excommunicated after their St. Galen Mafia conniving in the latter stages of Pope John Paul's papacy. Valid or not, he is a lousy Pope, probably among the worst in the history of the Church. Is he a heretic? I think that Brian explained in another thread how it's above our pay grade to make that call, so I can't say "yes". Neither can I say "no" because I have very serious doubts that he believes in the Real Presence, otherwise he wouldn't be so careless about who can receive Communion. From where I sit, he is enabling heresy at the very least, if not promoting it. There are times I have doubts about whether he has any Catholic beliefs other than giving to the poor. It appears to me that from a religious perspective a liberal Protestant denomination would be a better fit for him. I think that he displays little respect for the Sacraments or Sacred Tradition and would be just as happy and perhaps better suited to heading up an NGO if there were such an organisation with the Church's universal reach. As a Catholic, I'm obliged to respect the office he holds; obliged to obey him unless he preaches or enables heresy so I believe that I can in good conscience disregard many of his pronouncements. Fortunately for me, I'm not an orthodox priest or bishop because they are the people who will be persecuted thanks to this "merciful" Pope. Pray that God will give them the grace to sustain them through hard times. What we are dealing with can't be covered in a simple poll. I agree with those who have urged Padraig to talk to a priest. I suggest an orthodox priest who is capable of seeing through the false persona of mercy and humility. We need to pray for the Church because it looks like we got the Pope we deserved rather than the Pope we needed.
Yes I share this thought, which is all the more surprising in that he was the Cardinal he was involved in the Eucharistic miracle, which is pretty strong empirical evidence in the truth of the Real Presence. I just do do not understand his thinking. God Bless.
Yes Praetorian. I agree with you. Very dangerous. It is our job to pray, to stay informed and study our faith, the traditions of our faith, the catechism, the words of Christ, the magisterium born out of many centuries of refining doctrine. It is a dangerous time for all of us. We have to trust God. He has permitted this for His own inscrutable reasons. A very holy priest I know told me it is a purification. It will not be allowed to stand. That we must pray and be patient. Good advice I think.
To be honest, Light, I feel uncomfortable every time I suggest that as a possibility because it brings home to me my own shortcomings on that front, but even the worst atheist/sceptic couldn't fail to recognise the contradiction that something so priceless and intrinsic to our faith would be treated with less care than, say, some of the treasures in the Vatican. It's mind-boggling to me. Anyway, I won't be commenting further on this thread.
I agree with Padraig, but if God and Mary remain silent, we have to wait for God's help. It is useless to urge possesed people. God knows what to do. Many saints predicted that AC will be a pope. Are they lost? According to words of some people I know they are lost. Read this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipope_Anacletus_II Padraig, me and few others are as lost as st. Bernard or st. Malachi.
I think all of us here - with the possible exception of David - believe that there is something wrong with the current papacy. There is a long list of concerns. Whether the HF is truly in heresy I can't say because his statements have never gone that far. "By their fruits ye shall know them" - always a good test however. I am worried, very worried, about the way that good people are being sidelined and liberal ex-hippy types are promoted. As stated earlier, there will be no formal schism because not enough leading churchmen have the heart for it. And anyway, all of us have a great love and respect for the Petrine office regardless of the holder. We can't just walk out and into some kind of holy huddle however orthodox its stance. We're in a leaky boat and have to keep bailing hard.
My understanding from Scripture is that the anti Christ does not come to the end of times. Before the final battle of good and evil. I don't think we are anywhere near that yet. We are entering the Tribulation period which is quite distinct. Actually the Cathechism of the Catholic Church describes the anti Christ; most of us forget this: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c2a7.htm The Church's ultimate trial 675 Before Christ's second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576 676 The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism,577 especially the "intrinsically perverse" political form of a secular messianism.578 677 The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection.579 The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God's victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven.580 God's triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.581
Do we have any specific prophecies concerning the present Pope? I don't mean Malachi etc, but a contemporary source? There have been some concerning Obama and Trump, for instance. Of course many such are false or misleading. I was just wondering.
I can think of two off hand . The Prophesies of Our Lady of Good Success and the Secret of La Salette. Salette speaks of a , 'Weak Pope' ..and I believe Our Lady of Good Sucess the infiltration of Masonic forces in the Church. Also Mari Julie Jehenny , Blessed Catherine Emerich. Eleni Mori and so on... perhaps the Third Secret of Fatima. These of the top of my head. Play them on utube yourself. Perhaps the most important of all was the Revelations of Our Lady to Bruno at Tre Fontane. These have been kept locked up in the Vatican. Secret and secret for good reason I suspect
