Apostasy

True. I always see Pope John PaulIIs 1984 consecration effort as ''buying more time''

 

bh,
Sorry, but we will never agree on much...but every now and then i do enter the colosseum. I don't think i said anything wrong. But if it has hurt you in anyway then i am sorry.

Brother al

 

MC if you are going to come out with public statements like "... if they are engaging in sexual relations before obtaining an annulment, it is indeed adultery, even if an annulment is granted later on" then I suggest you try a little more theological research rather than relying purely on the intuitions of the Holy Spirit on this one.

I asked you to provide a Magisterial teaching to support what I believe is a somewhat inaccurate assertion of Catholic teaching here but you have not done so.

The Holy Spirit cannot be expected to provide you conclusions congruent with Canon Law and Moral Theology if you haven't made use of the normal means of higher Catholic education available to you that such assertions, if they are to be taken seriously, certainly require.

In short, I believe the more accurate Catholic view is that if an Annullment is declared then there really never was a previous marriage bond and therefore such acts cannot truly be considered adultery.

Fornication would be the better terminology. Even then, if it could then be discovered (by a retro-active convalidation) that this second co-habitation did initiate a true natural marriage at the time the couple exchanged consent at their (putatively 2nd) wedding ... then they would not have truly been fornicating either.

This last point is quite technical in Canon Law I believe. I may be mistaken. It may only hold for "defects of form" wrt a (1st) civil wedding where there was no previously anulled Catholic wedding.

As I have helpfully suggested to you above, a good start would be to research on the Net the meaning of "retro-active convalidations or Radical Sanations."

 

All good FS.
I was booted off by Padraig last time for doing to Bryan exactly what you just started doing above to myself.
So its a sensitive point not so much because I cannot take it but more because I think standards should be uniformly applied to all members on this forum. Thanks for your understranding.

 

My life is but a weaving
Between the Lord and me;
I may not choose the colors–
He knows what they should be.

For He can view the pattern
Upon the upper side
While I can see it only
On this, the under side.

Sometimes He weaves in sorrow,
Which seems so strange to me;
But I will trust His judgment
And work on faithfully.

‘Tis He who fills the shuttle,
And He knows what is best;
So I shall weave in earnest,
And leave to Him the rest.

Not ’til the loom is silent
And the shuttles cease to fly
Shall God unroll the canvas
And explain the reason why.

The dark threads are as needed
In the Weaver’s skillful hand
As the threads of gold and silver
In the pattern He has planned.

-Author Unknown

The Lord blesses and is close to the brokenhearted
And Says come to me all you who labour and are heavily burdened and I will give you rest
Do Not fear, The Lord loves you Joe, For you are a faithful son.
God Bless

 

You got booted for being a A__ . Really there is no double standards, i didnt say anything wrong.

Have a nice day

Brother al

 

That wasn't exactly mature FS, and the smiley doesn't make it so.

 

If the 4 bishops (and AB Levevbre himself ) are in now personally in Schism wouldn't all those in the Dioceses under these bishops also be in Schism? That seems to suggest the whole fraternity?

 

did you watch the video??

 

Thanks Josephite. Just what I needed.

 

It comes straight from the Catechism Padraig.
Why do you so easily let your heart take the most pessimistic of interpretations of myself and Joe on this point?

CCC How can we speak about God?
"40 Since our knowledge of God is limited, our language about him is equally so.
42 God transcends all creatures. We must therefore continually purify our language of everything in it that is limited, image-bound or imperfect, if we are not to confuse our image of God--"the inexpressible, the incomprehensible, the invisible, the ungraspable"--with our human representations. Our human words always fall short of the mystery of God.

43 Admittedly, in speaking about God like this, our language is using human modes of expression; nevertheless it really does attain to God himself, though unable to express him in his infinite simplicity. Likewise, we must recall that "between Creator and creature no similitude can be expressed without implying an even greater dissimilitude"; and that "concerning God, we cannot grasp what he is, but only what he is not, and how other beings stand in relation to him.

107 The inspired books teach the truth... Still, the Christian faith is not a "religion of the book." Christianity is the religion of the "Word" of God, a word which is "not a written and mute word, but the Word is incarnate and living".

 

MS its a 70 min video so I was relying on your excellent summary which I presume you helpfully provided for busy people here with real lives!

If you could name the time section you think will help, or just provide your own view/summary, that would be good.

 

St. Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the Devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray,
and do thou,
O Prince of the heavenly hosts,
by the power of God,
thrust into hell Satan,
and all the evil spirits,
who prowl about the world
seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.

Aviso

 

Thanks BH
I do not have this knowledge. And def not the time to find it. I was full of doubt and confusion tonight, not about the church but about myself. I had not reconciled with Padraig and slinked out of mass without receiving. I feel awful. Like I have been under attack all day and not necessarily from Padraig. I am wasted and have a long drive home over a steep and winding road. I will drive carefully. You 'drive' carefully too. (Is there such a word as 'slinked'? Must run in the family. Mum makes up words too. Hilarious)

 

Thank you.

 

Chin up Joe, its only a hiccup in the long term and things will hopefully be back to normal when sensitivites settle.

I have been at the receiving end of Padraig's somewhat hair-trigger ballistics 3 times now (thrown off each time) so I know how you are feeling. It doesn't always makes a lot of sense, just emotionally ride with it right or wrong and think well of everyone. As my Police Superintendant dad used to say, "if I put him away for something he didn't do this time...it will make up for the times he got away with it." Padraig is a great bloke overall, as are you!

 

Well we are heading for our annual shut-down

 

You know all last night while I was working I was feeling a little dejected and had decided to close the forum for a year or so. Change over to a little Marian Blog and take things easy.

But all of a sudden there I felt this great rush of joy and strength. I don;t think this was an accident, I had been watching a video on Medugorje at the time.

So there you are , thank you for your prayers.

 

Today I shall be witnessing, before the Blessed Sacrament, my sister’s marriage. If you ask me is he the right husband for her, I would say that I wouldn’t choose him, but that’s her choice. If one day I’m asked to answer before God about the validity of that marriage, I will, before God, before her, before you and before anybody.

The “nullity” of a marriage means that (because of certain objective interferences) the marriage didn’t actually happened in a valid way. If I can tell before God that I am in that case, then my marriage is null. In that case, I am saying before God that I know that I have been always single, that wedding didn’t mean anything or that wedding didn’t happen. If there is children (and this is an important issue), then we must accept that they didn’t come from the love between the spouses but they are actually children from single mother and from single father.

The sacramental marriage is not for life, is for the eternity, nobody in this world will change that ever. That’s the Truth, that’s Christ himself. You can lie before anybody and before yourself, but not before God.

The “annulment” of a marriage that doesn’t exist before God, that’s a nicer word for divorce but means nothing. It’s a mortal sin and needs deep repentance, but that’s worth it. Sodomy is another mortal sin and there is nothing positive from that.

Forget (Saint) Kasperite and (Saint) Helton John, and remain with Saint John the Baptist.


Andrea Solari, 1506-7